Here’s the proposition: I plan to make an end table with catalog-bought, turned maple legs and poplar stock (for economy) and want to finish the entire piece to approximate very dark mahogany to roughly match an old bed.
Without going to heroics, what’s the best strategy for getting the two woods to look alike and close to darkish mahogany?
I have access to the bed, so I can do some experimentation, but I have only the four purchased legs, so there are limits to how much I can test.
I’m thinking I start by staining inner portions of the unturned upper ends of the legs to get the maple color right, and then work on lots of scrap poplar to get that to match somehow. But what kinds of stains to use initially on the maple? and what strategies for getting poplar to match if the same stain looks too different?
Replies
You will need to pull out and dust off your cape for this job because heroics are the order of the day when performing a finish that meets your goals. I have a description of the process I use at this link - Staining and Blending Different Woods. Look it over and see if it's an approach you're interested in.
http://www.finishwiz.com
Read Paul's material. He is NOT making it an overly complicated process. It's pretty much a minimum of what you need to do. And, it still won't really look much like mahogany up close because the grain structure won't be right.
Frankly if your time and frustration is worth anything, its not that much more expensive to use mahogany to look like mahogany.
Just like me to wade in slightly over my head. And I'm somewhat boxed in because the people I'm building for wanted turned legs, which I can't make and so purchased. They also would prefer to pay poplar prices and aren't overly fussy, as long as the piece looks nice and is close in color to the bed.
Paul's approach is helpful in that it gives me a direction to go toward. I suspected I would need to layer. My problem with his recipe is I haven't any spraying equipment. But I'll muddle my way through somehow. I cook the same way.
You are talking about two species that are quite different. Maple is white and closed grain, Mahogany is red with open grain. The grain patterns can be very different. Maple also tends to be blotchy when stained. You really should get a little maple to practice on. I would suggest using Minwax oil based stains preceded by their wood conditioner to help with the blotching. Two applications of the conditioner would be advisable on turnings. It often takes two or more applications of stain to get a richer color. You won't get a true picture of the look until you top coat the samples. Taking the time and effort to do samples is part of the process. Short cuts aren't a good way to approach woodworking unless your standards are low. A bad finish will turn a nice project into an ugly looking mess.
Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
Minwax stains, especially preceded with stain conditioner will not get to a dark color unless you use them like paint and leave them on the surface. That's not acceptable--you could easily see it flake off, or display other bad properties if you tried that. Do get dark, you need to start with dye on bare wood.
Used properly a second coat of a pigmented stain mostly just evens out the application. More coats do almost nothing. Remember pigmented stains like Minwax have a binder that seals the wood. After a second coat it is almost completely sealed and almost no stain will "take" after that. You must wipe off all excess stain after giving it a few minutes to penetrate.
Edited 7/2/2008 8:57 am ET by SteveSchoene
gaffer ,
Steve has given you good advice . If I had to do what you want I personally would shade the piece , basically spray the color on . It will turn more opaque and less transparent but you can get even color , heck just paint the piece .
dusty
If you've no spray equipment, and the color only has to be a reasonably close match, you're in luck because you're trying to go dark.
Here's what I'd do (and have done before with reasonable results):
1) MOST IMPORTANTLY - do not sand the maple to a high number grit paper, like 400. I would go no higher than 180 grit here. The maple will "polish", and the poplar won't which will give you a very different dye absorption rate.
2) Buy some TransTint dye in the Red Mahogany and Brown Mahogany colors. These are alcohol soluble (though they'll also go into most finishes), so you will want to experiment with putting drops of these in about 100 ml of ethanol to start with until you get the color you want. Mix the two colors to get the shade about right. A deep, dark color will require about 30 drops total of the dye in about 100 ml of ethanol.
3) Wet the piece down with a damp cloth or sponge (in distilled water) - this will slightly slow the absorption rate of the dye and help avoid lap marks. The lap marks you do get will not be very visible since you're going for a dark color - this procedure really wouldn't work with a light, bright color such as blue.
4) Working quickly, wet down the entire surface of the piece with the dye on a pre-wetted ethanol dampened cotton cloth (or better yet, a micro-fiber cloth as sold in the automotive stores).
5) Let the piece dry, and determine if you need additional coats. Unlike a pigment stain, you can apply successive coats of the day and you will continue to get darkening.
6) Allow to dry thoroughly, and finish with your choice of top coats. You can even use shellac with a brush if you're very, very careful to apply the shellac in thin coats in a very rapid manner (allowing the brush to pause in any one place may re-dissolve the dye in the shellac).
This procedure is not as fool-proof nor as good a color match as using a glazing/toning compound and spray equipment, but it will work because you're going for a dark color, and the match is between pieces of furniture rather than a color match on the same piece (which is best left to a finishing expert).
P.S. - Wear latex gloves when applying the dye. Otherwise, you'll have "mahogany" hands for a couple of weeks until the dye wears off.
I'd prefer just to go with a water soluble dye powder, such as TransFast or the W.D. Lockwood dyes. There are two reasons.
First, it gives you a lot more working time, which means it is much easier to avoid lap marks. If you have to wet the wood with distilled water to slow absorption, you would still get the raised grain that is the prinicipal reason to avoid water soluble dyes. With that extra working time, you need not be so precise about applying the dye--just be sure to use plenty--and then wipe off excess with the same sponge you applied it, just squeezed out so it picks up dye standing on the surface. This way, the concentration of the mix is the major determinate of the degree of darkness.
Second, being soluble in water, and not very soluble in alcohol or oils, means you are less likely to pick up dye into the first coat of finish. This can be a problem with hand applied finishes, much less so than with sprayed finishes. Universal solvent dye concentrates are in many ways best used for toning finishes, where the finish material acts as a binder. But toned finishes, other than those very lightly toned, are best applied by spraying.
Thank you one and all.
I'll be digesting the advice for a while and get back with any follow up questions.
That's what I love about woodworking. Always lots more to learn.
thanks again
gaf
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