Replies

1. 
   Elcoholic | Oct 22, 2003 10:27pm | #1

   I bought a Veritas marking gauge.  Almost never use the Crown.

   John O'Connell - JKO Handcrafted Woodworking

   Life is tough.  It's tougher if you're stupid - John Wayne

1. 
   RJWata | Oct 22, 2003 11:49pm | #2

   John,

   I have the Veritas marking gauge as well, but I find it's difficult for me to control with its small fence.

   I'm just getting started with woodoworking and I figure I'll need three or four marking gauges (to allow me to repeat marks witout re-setting the gauge), so I was looking for an inexpensive marking gauge that I could modify to my liking.

   I'm looking for ideas on how to fix the problem with the wobbling fence of the beech Crown Tools gauge.

   Thank you for the reply.

   Robert

1. 
   jackiechan | Oct 23, 2003 06:46am | #3

   Robert,

   First determine how much play the fence has (is there a visible gap between the two pieces?).  If there is, loosen the set screw and remove the fence.  The easiest thing to do will be to add a thin veneer of wood along the length of the post on the offending side.  Depending on how much slack you're trying to take up, a long thick shaving from a hand plane should do the trick.  Don't add anything to the side under the set screw.  After gluing the piece on, clamp it face down on a hard flat surface - to prevent the piece from sticking to the surface, lay a piece of clear packing tape down first.  Once the glue has fully cured, test the fit of the fence on the post.  If it's too tight, no problem, use a block plane or a block of wood and sand paper to remove material from the opposite side of the post from the lamination.  The lamination will be too thin and easily damaged if the attempt is made there.  Be sure to sand/plane square and true on the post.

   Regarding your issue with the Veritas marking gauge - to maintain the best control over the tool it is best used when it is pulled in towards your body along the wood surface.  If you need to, use two hands - one on each side of the fence.  Once you've got the balance and the feel for the tool, you'll be able to do this one handed, with a finger or two on each side of the fence. 

   If you have any additional questions, please feel free to ask!

   Dan Kornfeld, Owner/President - Odyssey Wood Design, Inc.

   Edited 10/22/2003 11:49:37 PM ET by Jackie Chan

   Edited 10/22/2003 11:56:36 PM ET by Jackie Chan

1. 
   RJWata | Oct 23, 2003 07:03pm | #4

   Dan,

   Thank you for the detailed instructions on fixing the wobble problem. I was thinking about adding some material to the hole in the fence, but it makes more sense to add material to the post. I should probably use a hard wood like maple or oak. I'll let you know how the modification goes.

   Thanks again!

   Robert

1. 
   BenM | Oct 23, 2003 08:06pm | #5

   In my opinion a wobbly fence on a brand new marking gauge is unacceptable and should be returned.  Why should you have to fix someone else's lack of quality control?

2. 
   IW | Oct 24, 2003 01:14am | #6

   I wouldn't recommend glueing a strip of veneer along one side of a post, unless you want to end up with a banana-shaped beam.  The most common reason the beam 'wobbles' is that the side of the mortise that the beam is pushed against by the thumbscrew, isn't flat.  Take a small coarse file and carefully flatten it, and see if that cures the problem.  It doesn't matter how 'wide' the hole is, because the screw pushes the beam against the side of the mortise.  However, if the mortise is too big in the 'vertical' direction, the beam can pivot, and that's mildly annoying and hard to prevent.  In fact, all wooden gauges get sloppy after long and constant use - it really doesn't matter that much.  The beam sweeps back a bit as you begin to push it along, and then stays there.  The line may be a fraction of a milli-mu off what you set, but that isn't the point, since these tools are not designed for absolute accuracy, but for precision - i.e. transferring a constant measurement.

   High-end gauges of old had a slip of brass or (rarely) hard wood between the beam and the thumbscrew.  Its purpose is to prevent the screw chewing into the beam, which creates quite a channel, over time.  This doesn't affect the use of the tool, it's just not aesthetic. You could easily do that, too, if you don't like the look of daylight coming through the screw side.

   You're dead right when you say you might need several - at least two pin gauges, because there are so many times when you suddenly find you need to mark out someting, but don't want to alter the set of gauge #1 because you need to apply it to something else that isn't quite ready, yet.  And a cutting gauge marks much better across the grain,  while a pencil gauge is great for times when you don't want a permanent mark on a piece. A mortice gauge is very handy, but not essential - it just takes two passes instead of one, to mark-out. 

   In fact, it's quite easy and fun to make your own marking gauges. A serviceable gauge can be made from any old hardwood, though it is no more trouble to find a scrap of something attractive. There are at least three different ways of locking the beam to the stock (screw, wedge, or cam-lock) and there must have been 'how-to' articles in some w/working magazine or other every year for the last 25. 

   All that said, I heartily agree with the suggestion above, that if a new tool is so obviously sloppily made, it ought to go back where it came from!

   Cheers,

   Ian W.

3. 
   RJWata | Oct 27, 2003 09:36pm | #7

   Ian,

   Thank you for the advice regarding the wobbly fence on my marking gauge.

   I carefully flattened the side of the mortise opposite the thumbscrew (it was very rough), but that did not cure the wobble problem. Unfortunately, on this gauge the thumbscrew is perpendicular to the marking pin, not parallel to it. If the thumbscrew were parallel to the marking pin, then a wobbly fence would not introduce much of an error.

   Out of curiosity, I measured the error caused by the wobbling fence; it was 0.020 inches for a 0.750 inch setting. This translates to about 3 percent of the setting. (0.020 inches is greater than 1/64 inches and less then 1/32 inches.)

   I do not understand how adding a thin strip of veneer to the beam will make it banana-shaped. If the veneer strip is the same length as the beam and of uniform thickness, won't the beam be straight?

   Since I paid only $12 for the marking gauge, I didn't expect it to perform perfectly. If, with a little work, I can make it perform as well as a $60 gauge, then I'll be happy.

   Regards,

   Robert

4. 
   IW | Oct 28, 2003 12:48am | #9

   Robert,

              Glueing something down one side of a piece of wood runs the risk of causing it to bow as the glue dries and shrinks.  You may get away with it - depends on the glue and the wood.  To me, glueing a strip on just seems like a very inelegant solution, although it is probably the most practical and efficient way to fix a $12 tool. I guess you can't just turn the beam 90 deg. - the shape and the brass wear-strips usually preclude that.  Why not just find a bit of beech, or whatever it's made from, and make a new, better-fitting beam?  Of course, you may as well make a whole new gauge, as go to so much trouble over a lemon!

    I wrongly assumed the screw would be on the side, so my advice about flattening the mortise was a bit useless - especially as you had already thought of it!

   I'm not denying there will be a small change in the setting when you apply it to the board - most gauges move a little, in one plane, because wood changes dimension throughout the year.  Most old gauges acquire a slight wobble, though the emphasis is on 'slight' .  What matters is that it stays in position once underway, so that the mark is constant and repeatable.  Whether it is a fraction of a millimetre different from set is often less important in the scheme of things.  But there are situations where you do want to pick up a setting and transfer that exactly, so unless you can compensate, this gauge is going to be a source of continual frustration and annoyance, alright.

   As I said, it really isn't hard to make a decent gauge - cutting a neat, square mortice is the trickiest bit, but if you mark-out carefully, and sneak up on the final fit, you can get it right first time.  Her's my pencil-gauge - a pin gauge doesn't have a solid end, but a brass wear strip glued on the end is a nice touch.

   Cheers,

   Ian W.

5. 
   RJWata | Oct 28, 2003 03:52am | #10

   Ian,

   Thanks for explaining how laminating a thin strip of wood to the beam might distort its shape. I'll give it a try; if the beam bends, then maybe I'll try making a better fitting beam from scratch. I'm new to woodworking and I often miss some of the basic principles.

   I found plans for a marking gauge on the FWW web page (http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/pages/w00140.asp). Looks like it will give this beginner a chance to practice making accurate mortices.

   Best regards,

   Robert

2. 
   forestgirl | Oct 27, 2003 10:47pm | #8

   I'm sorry, but every time I see the "marking gauge wobble" title, I feel compelled to ask "Have you checked the arbor?"  Figured if I actually posted it, I'd get it out of my system, LOL!!

   Glad you're getting lots of help here, obviously not from me though....

   forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl   ;-)