Replies

1. 
   Alan | Jul 12, 2002 10:52pm | #1

   JL,

   Hmmm.  Though it's really difficult to diagnose such problems at a distance, still, it sounds a little like you might have chatter problems.  Does the plane make a screech/rattle sort of sound as you're planing with the grooving iron; or do you hear a scraping sound; or do you feel some vibration in your hands as you plane?

   If any of those things are happening check these things:

   First and foremost:  are you certain the iron is really sharp?  "Scary" sharpened tools have a nasty habit of "dubbing."  The only real test is the fingernail test or the "Newton" test.

   Second:  is the grooving iron properly bedded and is it properly clamped down?  Very little play between the iron and the surfaces to which it must mate can lead to a whole lot of chattering problems.

   Third:  are the sides of the iron smooth, the edges rounded, and no wider that the cutting edge?  I had a grooving iron for my Stanley combination plane that had some roughness on the edges that caused it to chatter.  A few swipes on my green (coarsest) stone fixed it right up.

   Lastly:  are you certain that you kept the plane at the precise same angle throughout the process?  Canting the plane one way or the other as you plane can cause the iron to chip out both the sides and the bottom.  Also, the fence might be slightly skewed so that the plane doesn't track correctly.  Check to see that the sides of the groove are smooth; if they are not you might have a problem with canting or skewing in the cut.

   Other than that I don't know what to check.  It might be useful if I, and others who can help, could have a description of the plane.  Can you post a picture? or at least describe it more fully?

   Alan

1. 
   BenM | Jul 12, 2002 11:59pm | #2

   The only real test is the fingernail test or the "Newton" test.

   I have never heard of the "Newton" test.  Could you please explain further?  Thanks.

1. 
   Alan | Jul 13, 2002 12:55am | #3

   Ben,

   I'm not sure why it's called the "Newton" test.  My guess is it's because Sir Isaac did a lot of work in optics, much more work than he did in physics.

   The Newton test is based on reflected light.  Obviously, if an edge is very sharp, so that the actual edge is only a very few molecules thick (I don't know if it's possible for an iron to be that sharp) it will not reflect enough light for you to see it.

   To perform the test you will need a fairly good magnifying glass.  I use a 10X lens I got when I studied geology.  Stand with a bright light behind you--don't let the tool get in your shadow--with the edge towards you, and examine the edge through the glass.  If it's truly sharp the edge will appear as a very thin black line.  Any bright spots along the edge means it isn't sharp.  If it's dubbed or dulled from use you will see a more or less continuous, thin bright line.  If there are nicks in the edge, or if all the machining marks haven't been removed, you will see a series of white dots or line segments along the edge.

   I know some that swear they can see the edge without the aid of a magnifying glass.  I cannot--and could not even when my eyes were young and strong.  You can pick up a pretty good glass at nature stores, some hobby stores, and very likely at your local college bookstore.

   JL,  sorry, but I forgot two obvious things you might want to check.  (I should have learned by now to never overlook the obvious.)

   One is to be sure the iron is not extended too far.  An iron sticking too far beyond its support is probably the thing more likely to cause chatter than anything else.

   The other is to be sure the sides of the iron are parallel with the sides of the plane.  If the iron is skewed to one side or the other, and locked down tight, it can sometimes cause the symptoms you describe.

   Alan

   Edited 7/12/2002 6:14:09 PM ET by Alan

1. 
   SgianDubh | Jul 13, 2002 03:25am | #5

   Going back to the early seventies when I trained, learning how to sharpen tools was undertaken within the first few days. I don’t recall precisely the order of my instruction, but it went something like this. I was handed a plane by the cabinetmaker I was assigned to and told, “Git that piece o’ wood square.” I didn’t know why, but I’d done a bit of woodworking at school, so I had a vague idea how to go about it. I fooled around with that piece of wood for twenty or thirty minutes, and got it something like. All this under the watchful eye of the crusty old guy and his ever present roll-up hanging out of the corner of his mouth.

   “Okay, I’ve done that.” I said, “Now what do you want me to do?”

   I was told to hang about for a minute whilst he picked up his square and straight edge and proceeded to scrutinise my handiwork, followed by a non-committal grunt and some desultory foot sweeping of the plentiful shavings on the floor. (The wood was probably only about seventy five per cent of its original volume!)

   “Now sonny, let’s do the next job,” he announced. “Pull that jack plane ye’ve bin usin’ apairt and let’s have a look at the iron.” I did.

   “Hold the iron up so’s ye can see the cuttin' edge.” He instructed. (He was a Scot.) Again I did as I was told.

   “Now, can ye see it? Can ye see the ‘line o’ light’ at the shairp end there?” he asked. He was referring to the shiny reflection visible on all blunt tools.

   “Aye,” I said, after a little eye narrowing, and other pretence of intelligence.

   “How shairp does it look to you boy?” he enquired.

   I thought about this for a moment or two, seeking the right response to my tormentor, for I hadn't really got a clue of what he was talking about, and finally replied rather hopefully and a bit brightly, “Pretty shairp, I’d say.”

   He laughed out loud, and hacked a bit. “Dinnae be the daft bloody laddie with me son. If ye can see it, it’s blunt. I could ride that bloody iron bare-ersed to London and back and no cut ma’sel’. Git o’er here an’ I’ll show ye something.”

   You can probably guess. Out came the oilstone from his toolbox, and quick as a flash the iron was whisking up and down the stone, flipped over, the wire edge removed, and finally stropped backwards and forwards on the palm of the hand. You could shave with it. I know, because he demonstrated how sharp it was by slicing a few hairs off the back of his hand. On went the cap iron and this little lot was popped back in the plane, followed by a bit of squinting along the sole from the front whilst  he relit his smoke, and the lever and knob were fiddled with and that was it. He took a few shavings off a piece of wood and it went back in his toolbox. It took, well,…......just a few minutes.

   “Now son, that’s a shairp plane. It’s nae bloody use to me blunt. Ye may as well sling a soddin’ blunt yin in the bucket fur'all the use it is to me.” He explained with great refinement. “I’ve aboot ten mair o’ them in that box, an’ they’re all blunt. I know they are, because ah’ve bin savin ‘em for yuh. There’s a bunch a chisels too. Let’s get ye started.”

   For what felt like forever I sharpened his tools, and things gradually got better. After a while he stopped telling me what a "daft stupit bloody wee git" I was, and a bit later he started offering grudging approval. I had to sharpen some more than once because he kept on using and blunting them! When I’d done the lot we stopped and surveyed the days work.

   “Aye, no too bad fer a daft laddie's fust effort,” he commented darkly, sucking hard on his smoke, “I think ye’ve goat the makin’s o’ a cabinetmaker yung yin. Time will tell. Remember boy, yer nae a cabinetmaker if ye cannae shairpen yer tools. Lesson over. Dinnae ferget it!” I haven't.  Slainte, RJRJFurniture

1. 
   lwilliams | Jul 13, 2002 05:03am | #6

   Thanks, Sgian!

2. 
   RSRose | Jul 13, 2002 06:24am | #7

   OK Sgian,

   I've got that printed out and filed away.

   Now, when is the book coming out, and are you going to let us preview each story on line like that?

   Rich

3. 
   SgianDubh | Jul 13, 2002 06:37am | #8

   I don't write books, Rich. I've nothing much to say regarding furniture making that wasn't said a 100 or more years ago. Joyce and Ellis is about all a furnituremaker needs to read. That's pretty much what  I have in my library, apart from ancient and not all good rubbish from Charles Hayward, and a couple of books on furniture history. They said it all very well one way or another. On the other hand, I can spout useless drivel and be sharp tongued with the best, ha, ha. Slainte, RJ.

   RJFurniture

   Edited 7/12/2002 11:43:52 PM ET by Sgian Dubh

4. 
   RSRose | Jul 13, 2002 08:34pm | #9

   Fair enough,

   But yer wit's as shairp as yer plane iron, laddie. And ye might be given writin' a thought, you know.

   Cheers,

   Rich

5. 
   SgianDubh | Jul 14, 2002 08:10am | #11

   I do write a bit for filthy lucre here and there Rich. Nothing much, but the idea of a book-- page after page of my useless drivel is daunting, daunting even for me read my own guff-- I dunno. I guess I could break it up a bit with some pretty pictures-- perhaps even a bit of soft porn-- me naked under a traditional white joiner's apron with streaks of hide glue(?) and a well developed upper chest, and shots of my out of whack workbench to relieve the unfortunate reader of the tedium............? Slainte, RJ. RJFurniture

6. 
   RSRose | Jul 14, 2002 08:36pm | #13

   "some pretty pictures-- perhaps even a bit of soft porn-- me naked under a traditional white joiner's apron with streaks of hide glue(?) and a well developed upper chest"

   The mind reels!

7. 
   Alan | Jul 13, 2002 11:26pm | #10

   Sgian,

   I didn't know Newton was a Scot.

   Alan

8. 
   SgianDubh | Jul 14, 2002 08:10am | #12

   Nor did I. Slainte, RJ.RJFurniture

2. 
   lwilliams | Jul 13, 2002 03:18am | #4

   JL,

   There are two places I'd probably start with your plane. Alan's suggestion of checking the soundness of the bedding is the second thing I'd look at. First, assuming your plane has a metal skate, lay a straight edge on the skate and make sure it's straight. Old metal skates have often lost registration due to abuse or wood movement.

   Bedding an iron on a metal skate can be a real trick. If the iron isn't bedded properly there's a good chance the iron isn't original. Your iron should be a little thicker than you'd normally find in a molding plane. The back of the iron, about 2" near the edge will be slightly curved and there'll be a registration groove cut into this area. The bottom of the registration groove should be pretty much in the same plane as the back of the tang section of the iron.

   Most people think plow and grooving plane irons can be changed from plane to plane. That's not the case. The iron is fit and bedded by shaping  the wedge. If you have problems here, you may have to make a new wedge.

   Check your plane over and if you run into problems getting it fixed either post here or e-mail me and I'll see if I can help you. Good luck; this may not be the easiest fix for a plane but your planes are worth the effort.