Replies

1. 
   CStanford | May 16, 2004 06:33pm | #1

   A slightly strong 16th.

2. 
   SgianDubh | May 16, 2004 06:50pm | #2

   Bloody hell, cstansford and I near enough agree on something. There must be a blue moon due tonight, ha, ha. A maximum of about 2 mm is what I'd suggest. Above that and you're starting to get into the realms of solid wood properties-- what you were concerned about.

   Now, if you were sticking 4 or 5 mm thick stuff, or perhaps even thicker onto a solid wood ground all with the grain running the same way-------------------- but you're not-------  Slainte.

   RJFurniture

1. 
   wop | May 16, 2004 11:33pm | #3

     Yeah 2mm is about the max, a few years ago I tried a bit thicker and got some minor splitting. When it's that thick here we call it" lastronato" and don't even consider it to be veneer. 5mm sounds risky even on solid wood core with the grain to me. Since if you are doing that it would be good wood (i.e. cherry) on to junk (poplar) .Movement of the two different woods would put me off on it.

                                                                      Philip

1. 
   SgianDubh | May 18, 2004 12:28am | #9

   Philip, I'm wary of sticking thick 'veneer' to solid wood grounds too. However, if you try to match movement characteristics between species I'd say it can be done with caution. You can also stick two pieces of the same species together, but again it's a good idea to match the grain pattern if possible to reduce the chance of a movement mismatch.

   Your valid point is well taken though. Slainte.RJFurniture

1. 
   wop | May 18, 2004 11:47pm | #11

     

      Well, at that point, I would say if you want to veneer thick on to solid, stick with the same species. If you buy rough sawn, as we do here ,you usually end up with some not so great boards, which I usually use in place of secondary wood (drawer sides and bottoms etc...) this could be used also as core. Or buy some stock that is not select, third grade(I hope that makes sense it's sort of translated from Italian) is usually very cheap and can be used as secondary wood or core while still being the same species. Might be worth a try even just out of curiousity .But it would have to be for pannels of a certain thickness. A 3mm veneer on two sides is already 6mm the core would have to be at least twice that so you are at 12mm.For pannels in cabinet doors it might work. Now for the big question, If the wood is the same species as the veneer, with corrisponding grain direction, is it necessary to do the same to both sides of the core?( veneer both sides?)or could I get away with only one side which would save a lot of trouble.

                                                                                    Philip

   Edited 5/18/2004 5:08 pm ET by wop

1. 
   SgianDubh | May 19, 2004 01:25am | #12

   It's an odd choice isn't it, Philip, perhaps attaching cherry quarter sawn over --- cherry quartersawn to ensure the least likelihood of differential expansion? But it may be that the grain of the veneer is especially intersting whilst the groundwork grain is not.

   Should you veneer both sides? Most would surely say yes, but I think it's possible to veneer one side only if grain patterns are carefully matched, even if species are different. The one rider would be restrain the movement within or above a suitable restraing framework or construction. For instance I think it's okay to veneer just the front of the drawer box on one side because the corner construction restrains the the groundwork-- plus the inside of a bare drawer box tends to be sheltered from changes in atmospheric relative humidity by being enclosed, whereas the outsde is often sheltered by the application of moisture resistant polish.

   Table tops, more exposed as they are are more difficult to decide on, yet if we look at antiques, how many tilt tops from the mid 1800's still survive veneered on just the top face? Quite a few, which is a bit of a surprise, but there it is. Slainte.RJFurniture

2. 
   wop | May 19, 2004 11:39pm | #13

       Well that's generally the idea that I was toying with. If one really good board of cherry 6 cm thick is sawn down into thick veneer and used as exterior veneer on top of less interesting (and cheaper)cherry of the same grain pattern you could achieve a perfect grain and colour match even on a relatively large piece.

        As far as veneer on one side we are thinking along the same lines.As to those table tops , they always puzzled me especially since some of them are not even finished on the bottom.

     Any way this sort of devoloped in my mind because I find a constant decline in the quality of European cherry which is my wood of choice.Thanks for your thoughts.

                                                                          Philip

2. 
   CStanford | May 17, 2004 02:50am | #5

   Richard, you'll be happy to know that I will soon make a switch to the metric system in my shop.  I'm awaiting the delivery of a metric tape measure and a metric folding rule as we speak. 

   I'm damn sick and tired of dividing sixteenths and eighths and all that crap.  This post will probably be my last that refers to an Imperial measurement.  Ain't I a peach?

   I'm also drinking a Guinness - no shi*

   You've had an affect on all of us, my friend.

1. 
   Jellyrug | May 17, 2004 07:12am | #6

   Hey there,

   I grew up on the other side of the ocean, so all I knew were millimeters, but now I'm here and I've converted to inches. Yep this is a lot more difficult, but how do you work in SI units if everything in your environment is not SI?

   4/4 (four quarters), 10" table saw blades, you buy machines and they come with inch markings etc. Then there is a board foot, (for me it was meters cube before.)

   Still trying to figure out what a cord of firewood is?

   Anyway, good luck, but think this may be like driving on the left side of the road in the good old US., or the right side in England.

   Willie

1. 
   CStanford | May 17, 2004 02:35pm | #7

   Of course I'll still have to deal with the 'quarter system' as far as lumber is concerned.  I now use only hand tools so machinery, router bits, and stuff like that is less of an issue for me.  I guess it would be more accurate to say that I'm attempting to be bi-lingual as a poster put it in another thread.

1. 
   MarkRoderick | May 17, 2004 02:43pm | #8

   Thank you Charles and Richard and others. Your advice is, as always, right on the money.

   MARK

2. 
   SgianDubh | May 18, 2004 12:31am | #10

   Metric--- and Guinness Charles? Whatever next? You'll be pointing a pinkie next time you drink a nice cup of tea, with milk, and two sugars, ha, ha. Toodle-pip. Slainte.

   RJFurniture

3. 
   GHR | May 17, 2004 02:40am | #4

   Cold moulded boats are several layers of 1/8" and more in random directions. Just have to know what you are doing.