Replies

1. 
   Scrit | Nov 15, 2005 07:16pm | #1

   There are indeed HDF and LDF. Not to mention lightweight MDF, ultra lightweight MDF, moisture-restant MDF (the green stuff), exterior grade MDF, deep-rout MDF (better finish when routing profile edges), fire-retardant MDF (the pink stuff), ......

   Working with the stuff all the time can drive you this way ;-)

   Scrit

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   Edited 11/17/2005 7:25 am by Scrit

   
   

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   Edited 11/17/2005 7:26 am by Scrit

2. 
   mudman | Nov 16, 2005 01:49am | #2

   Like Scritt said there are made grades and weights of pressed board products. Dont forget all the particle board options, which are better options for many cabinetry parts. In my area there are places that sell only sheet goods. These are the only places that I know of that carry a full line of the products.

   Mike

1. 
   homespice | Nov 24, 2005 02:28am | #3

   why is PB better than MDF for cabnetmaking?  Pros and cons for each.  No one has ever really answered this question in FWW or FHB.

   Joel

1. 
   notDusty | Nov 24, 2005 04:27am | #4

       Hi homespice ,

                              MDF is made from a fine wood flour and is a more densely compressed product that is more powdery to begin with no wood fibers and small chips as is common in PB . MDF is considered to be a superior surface for painting . IMO the down side of MDF is it is heavier then most PBs . A cabinet built of MDF is real heavy . Plywood carcass construction is lighter and typically has more structural integrity over the pb and mdf .

                                       dusty

2. 
   Scrit | Nov 24, 2005 04:33am | #5

   If you're talking about kitchen cabinets, then melamine-faced PB (MFC) is quite a bit cheaper than MF-MDF. I don't think there is much difference in what happens when they are water-logged, just that MFC produces coarser blotting paper! MFC is generally available in a much wider range of finishes. That said MF-MDF works better on Point of Sale stands as it will stand up to the abuse much better without edge chipping, cracking, etc.  It also lends itself better to designs with halving joints, rebated cut-outs, etc. Another plus when processing MF-MDF is that I normally get much longer tool life on it as you can run the tool blunter before chipping becomes too noticeable. MF-MDF is not a good choice if trimming/scribing in a domestic environment as the dust is very fine and gets everywhere - controlling it in the shop is easy. You pays yer money and yer takes yer choice!

   Scrit

    

3. 
   mudman | Nov 29, 2005 06:44pm | #6

   MDF:  Advantages= machines better (cutting and routing), smoother surface, paints easier, edges and corners are a little more chip resistant (if they are left exposed and untreated, which is uncommun in cabinetry). Down sides= weighs more, costs more, spans less than the better grades of PB, horribly dusty during all machining proceedures, generally off gasses more (though this is changing).

   Particle board: Advantages= availible in many weights and ratings for different applications, availible venered in any material that you could imagine (hard woods, figured veneers, melamine, metal laminates, one sided or two sided, one side melamine the other veneer

    

   I generally use melamine PB for all the boxes, except the sink cabinet which is plywood or MDO. Shelfs are plywood. drawers are plywood or solid wood. On very large cabinets (big screen TVs) I use plywood to minimise the sagging and wobbling of the box.

   Mike

1. 
   homespice | Nov 29, 2005 10:10pm | #7

   I understand most of these Dis& advantages.  What I have not understood was why, besides wieght, one would choose PB over MDF for kitchen cabinets, knowing that MDf is more stable and holds a fastener better.  It has always seemed to me that PB was crap that would only fall apart and was not worth working with.  It seems like all yall pros are still using it.  Good to know!

1. 
   mudman | Nov 30, 2005 07:40am | #8

   I'd  sat that neither material holds fasteners worth a crap. However there are special fasteners that are better that the screws that are commonly used. And both will be equally ruined if exposed to the average plumbing misshap. I think that MDF is posibly more susceptable to moisture (not flooding). I've seen lots of mushroomed MDF in situations where I think that PB would be OK. As far as stability... there is too little diference to matter in carcase construction.

   I used plywood for everything untill about a year ago. Now I prefer to use PB for most case work. It is flatter, more consistant and comes in more options.

   Mike

2. 
   Scrit | Nov 30, 2005 10:18pm | #9

   Overall I'd probably agree that MFC is slightly better in prolonged contact with water, and it can be made even better by edge banding unseen edges, back edges, etc. which is how the better mass market kitchens are now made. Go to 3mm PVC edge banding and it's even more durable. But remember, not all MFCs are equal. If you are building Euro-style carcasses from MFC then the way to do it is to go to the Euro-style adjustable legs which are plastic, with clip-on plinths. By doing that you will overcome  the achilles heel of an MFC or MDF plinth, water absorbtion from floor level; but you've got to ask yourself what sort of second-rate plumber delivers kitchen plumbing which won't stay water-tight for the average 10 to 12 years that you expect from an MFC carcass? I've pulled-out enough MFC kitchen carcasses to know that treated properly an MFC carcass on Euro adjuster legs will last 20+ years - a bit longer than most people go without remodelling. If you are concerned about fastener durability you can go to dowel or biscuit jointing for the carcasses - they're bullet proof and very, very durable. The only area you'll likely see problems in an MFC carcass is door hinge plates, and for those you need to pick the right quality of hinge/plate (e.g Blum or Salice) and use an appropriate screw like the Hospa screws sold by Hafele.

   In any case if you're doing it for a paying customer 8 out of 10 don't know nor care what it's made from - so long as it looks good and wipes clean.

   Scrit

   Edited 11/30/2005 2:20 pm by Scrit

3. 
   mudman | Dec 01, 2005 07:51pm | #11

   Half assed plumming is too common in the states to ignore it. And worse than that is when the homeowner decides to work on the plumbing. I always build the sink box out of plywood. Piece of mind.

   Mike

4. 
   DougU | Dec 01, 2005 12:57am | #10

   Another thing to think about, all particle board is not created equally.

   The particle board that you buy at Lowes/HD is not the same grade that you get from a good plywood dealer.

   Doug

3. 
   tangomike | Dec 24, 2005 11:22am | #12

   it's been referred to in a couple of the other responses, but lightweight MDF doesn't get the attention it deserves. I've been using this increasingly on projects and have not found a downside, but very much appreciate the fact that I can move it around all day without getting a hernia.