Replies

1. 
   bill_1010 | Nov 01, 2003 04:35pm | #1

   along with regular dust collection you should add an air scrubber/cleaner or not use MDF

1. 
   Tamarack | Nov 01, 2003 06:44pm | #2

   A relatively low cost solution would be to keep a shop vac running while you are routing, and also use a 20x20 furnace filter attached to an inexpensive 20x20 box fan to get the finer dust. (such a cantivance is next on my to-do list, 'cuz my shop looks like yours at the moment)

1. 
   Jfrostjr | Nov 01, 2003 11:50pm | #8

   Thanks for the responses. My shop is clean for now. My problem started when I purchased "lumber core" Birch plywood. When I got to the dock, I found it was MDF core, so I took it. What ever happened to Baltic Birch plywood? I can't find it here.

   I tried my shop vac, not enough oomph. Same with my dust collecter with a 2 1/2 hose. Next time, if there is a next time, I'll try a 4" dust collecter hose and a special hood.

   I always wear a good dust mask for this kind of work, but didn't know about the off-gassing. I guess we all live close to the edge.

   Thanks again,

   Cleaner Now Jerry

2. 
   forestgirl | Nov 01, 2003 06:51pm | #3

   Jerry, if you think your shop looks bad, just imagine your lungs.  WmP's right, an air filter + DC, or no MDF.

   forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl   ;-)

3. 
   hammer1 | Nov 01, 2003 07:01pm | #4

   Finally routers are starting to come with dust collection. I have duct taped a vacumn hose to mine when needed but for the most part I just filled my pockets and shoes like everyone else. MDF is pretty nasty but Corian is even worse. I've been lusting for a Fien but just saw the new PC grip vac. I expect other manufacturers will have their solutions out soon.

4. 
   robert1 | Nov 01, 2003 09:04pm | #5

   I made a portable bench for those incredibly dirty woodworking jobs and do the work outside with a dust mask and throw away clothes. Presto, no polluted shop or lungs.

5. 
   eddiefromAustralia | Nov 01, 2003 09:36pm | #6

   Jerry,

   The glue in MDF is either Urea Formaldehyde or modified Melamine/Urea Formaldehyde.  The formaldehyde is not completely bound and is a potent carcinogen.

   Only use this in a system where the dust/fume/gas is completely captured at source and removed - A good dust collector that vents outside and shrouded equipment.

   Sorry to rain on the parade - a little known fact.

   Cheers,

   eddie

   
   

   ---

   Edited 11/1/2003 2:37:03 PM ET by eddie (aust)

6. 
   Manchild | Nov 01, 2003 11:44pm | #7

   Do you get headaches when you work with MDF?

   Alot of people do. That's your brain telling you to stop.

7. 
   JMartinsky | Nov 02, 2003 05:53pm | #9

   Dear Jerry,

   MDF dust has driven a couple of decisions on my part. One of which is to invest in a central dust collector. I have an Oneida, but any cyclone type will be better than a shop vac. A shop vac will be quickly overwhelmed by the very fine dust and more importantly will not get the extremely fine dust that hangs in the air for hours. That is the real dangerous stuff. A dust collector, properly set up will keep YOU cleaner, the shop cleaner, and will allow you to work quickly and safely. Oneida will assist you in the design, so they may be a good place to start. Do yourself a favor and make the investment. It will be cheaper than new lungs! Good Luck!

   John

1. 
   PlaneWood | Nov 02, 2003 10:00pm | #10

   I'm somewhat paranoid now about dust in the shop.  This started when I broke out in a rash all over from the effects of Rosewood dust.  I now have every tool connected to a DC that sets outside and I try to get it to grab every speck of dust and chips.

   MDF dust is some really bad sh--!  At least with particle board the residue is a little larger grained and doesn't go everywhere.  I use my hand held circular saw and saw MDF outside on saw horses.  And I fire up my large shop fan to direct the dust the other way! 

   PlaneWood by Mike_in_Katy (maker of fine sawdust!)PlaneWood

8. 
   TerryH | Nov 03, 2003 04:51pm | #11

   Jerry,

   I built this down draft box specfically for routing mdf. It's truly nasty stuff. Your shop vac won't power a down draft box this big very well. It's time to think DC. :-)

   I have a buildup of the box on my site.

   http://www.terryhatfield.com

   Terry

   Registered Shopaholic

   
1. 
   Jfrostjr | Nov 03, 2003 06:47pm | #12

   I like the downdraft box. I'll give it a try.

   I really hate dust:

   I have a ceiling mounted ambient dust collector.

   I have a 1200 cfm dust collector permanently connected to all my power tools except my lathe. Remote contral except manual blast gates.

   I replaced my Delta 14" bandsaw because of the lousy dust port. Got a Laguna which has wonderful dust collection in addition to other great features.

   I gave my Delta Contractors Saw to my son so I could get a Unisaw (which also has great dust control.)

   I bought a "Woodpeckers" under-the-router-table dust control box. Don't even need to hook up the hose to the fence anymore!

   I always wear a good dust mask - and ear muffs for sound when rounting etc.

   BUT - I have been stumped when routing dadoes or rabbits, or in this case, cut-outs etc for my new saw-outfeed extension/router table. None of the above preventative devices work for me when I've got a big router out in the open. Even your downdraft box wouldn't control the dust when I'm routing the miter gauge extension slots.

   I'm sorry to runj on like this and I appreciate the comments from everybody directed toward preserving my good health. I guess I was just frustrated at the mess and the very health problems you all have mentioned.

   My table saw setup is now a 5'x 5' flat surface with the router embedded on the far side. Jessem fence with recessed holdown tracks, Woodpeckers Pro Router lift (it's great!) and a JoinTech crosscut sled foer the saw. (Had to get to some shop updates done after finishing a walnut, Queen Ann style buffet. I even put down some RustOleum Epoxy floor material. I like it.) Now for the next real project.

   Thanks to you all.

   Jerry

1. 
   mitch | Nov 03, 2003 07:28pm | #13

   i have a love/hate relationship with mdf.  love the way it works- hate the way it virtually vaporizes upon contact with a blade or bit.  if you're going to use anything other than a cyclone collector, put a two-stage bucket or barrel in the line ahead of the dc or shopvac.  it really helps to put a little water (from a couple inches to a few gallons depending on your vessel) in the bucket/barrel with a few drops of dish soap to kill the surface tension.  this trick will keep the superfine dust from clogging your filter so fast.

   there are several models available from various woodworking suppliers or just make your own.  i made one for a 35 gal trash can for big planer chips and also a 5 gal bucket model for smaller volume, but finer dust situations.  the little unit has the intake tube extended down to within 6" or so of the bottom of the bucket, ending in a 45 degree elbow to create more cyclone action (in case you're not familiar with this sort of set-up, the intake should be near the outer edge of the lid, with the outflow- to the vac- right in the center at the calmer "eye of the hurricane").   with a few inches of soapy water in it, i can saw or rout mdf or ply practically all day without clogging the vac filter.  you will occasionally need to dump and rinse out the bucket depending on your situation- your mileage may vary.

   m

1. 
   Elcoholic | Nov 04, 2003 12:00am | #14

   My understanding is that formaldehyde off-gassing is a thing of the past.  That stuff was banned years ago.  A router table with under table and fence dust pickups connect to a 1 1/2" to 2 hp DC will go along way towards keeping your shop cleaner.  Unless the DC exhausts to the outside or is equipped with aftermarket filters it won't do jack for your lungs.  The dangerous dust is in the 1 to 5 micron range which you can't even see and it goes right through normal woven DC bags.  Direct pick-up on a router is tough.  PC has an attachment that will work for edge work but for dado's and the like the DW621 may be the best bet although I don't own one, I've been told by those that do that it's pretty effective with a top end shop vac.  I have a 2hp DC with shaker felt bags, use a Fein vac whenever possible, run a Jet air cleaner and still wear a respirator for the nasty (most exotics) stuff.John O'Connell - JKO Handcrafted Woodworking

   Life is tough.  It's tougher if you're stupid - John Wayne

1. 
   jako17 | Nov 04, 2003 06:45am | #15

   Anyone heard of Medite? They apparently make a no formaldehyde and a low formaldehyde MDF.I saw it at a wood show in England but I believe it is made in the USA.They also had some exterior grade for signage

                                                     Jako