Replies

1. 
   jazzdogg | Aug 20, 2004 05:01am | #1

   You might want to look at "American Furniture of the 18th Century" (Jeffrey Greene), "Sotheby's Concise Encyclopedia of Furniture (Christopher Payne), or "The History of Furniture" (John Morley).

   -Jazzdogg-

   Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right.

1. 
   MichaelHenderson | Aug 20, 2004 06:28am | #2

   Thanks, Jazzdogg.  Before I go out and buy any of those books, do you know if they have detailed measurements (more than just height, length and depth)?  My understanding of Greene's "American Furniture of the 18th Century" is that it has pictures but not much of actual measurements.  I don't know the other two books you recommended.

   I have a copy of "The New Fine Points of Furniture" by Albert Sack.  On page 111, he has a picture of a four drawer John Townsend block front chest and gives the height, width and depth but nothing else.  I checked all of Lynch's and Margone's work that I could find but neither has any measurements of a Townsend blockfront-shell chest.  Fine Woodworking did an issue on the blockfront years ago but it had a non-shell blockfront chest and a shell desk.

   I can scale the measurements for the drawers from Sack's picture or from one on the web, but I'd like to find something that provides more detailed measurements of one of John Townsend's blockfront shell chests.  I'd prefer measurements of the Sara Slocom chest but I'll take any four drawer John Townsend blockfront shell chest.

   It just seems to me that *something* must have been published on such important work.

   Thanks, BernieB

1. 
   jazzdogg | Aug 20, 2004 08:13am | #3

   Bernie,

   My books are at a different location right now, so I can't say for sure. As I recall, American Furniture of the 18th Century only provides cursory dimensions, although it does have a section that provides a detailed explanation of how to "take off" dimesions from a photograph or sketch when only minimal dimensions are provided.

   A friend of mine teaches a class in which the piece you're talking about is built. If you can wait until next week, I'll ask him - he's built several of them. I can also check the library at the woodworking college I attend when school starts next week.

   Just a thought, but have you tried a Google search?

   Good luck,

   -Jazzdogg-

   Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right.

   Edited 8/20/2004 1:15 am ET by jazzdogg

1. 
   MichaelHenderson | Aug 20, 2004 09:02am | #4

   Thanks for your quick note.  I've googled for anything on Townsend chests and searched for any books I could find - and bought quite a few which I thought might have something on blockfronts.  I even joined the American Society of Period Furniture Makers (name might not be exact) because they published some instructions on carving the shells.  I also purchased Nora Hall's video on carving shells.

   There's a book on the Newport furniture makers which was published in the '80s or early '90s but it's out of print and used copies are extremely expensive (maybe $500) and I'm not sure it would have measurements.

   I've actually been looking for quite a while (maybe a year). 

   I can extract some of the dimensions from pictures of the Sara Slocom chest (or at least come reasonably close to the dimensions) using a vanishing point techique but I'd really like to have the actual dimensions of that chest to base my design on.

   I really appreciate you asking your friend if s/he can provide any information.  Thanks for any help that you can provide. 

   BernieB

1. 
   calvinhobbs | Aug 20, 2004 03:35pm | #5

   Bernie,

   I could be wrong, but I thought there were detailed drawings in Taunton's "Fine Woodworking on making Period Furniture" along with a Boston blockfront.  And this is just reprints of old FWW articles.  I am at work and can't check it until later, maybe someone here could follow up.  I have been meaning to look it up myself to build the Boston variety.

   Hope this helps.

   Cal

2. 
   MichaelHenderson | Aug 20, 2004 07:47pm | #8

   Cal,

   FW did an issue with a concentration on blockfronts and published a book on 18th century furniture.  In both cases, they gave plans for a blockfront chest without shells and a slant front desk with shells.  I guess I can use the blockfront (sans shells) as a starting point and adapt it to add shells.

   I was trying to see if any measurements of a Townsend chest (with shells) was available before I started my design.

   Thanks for your note.

   BernieB

   Edited 8/20/2004 1:08 pm ET by BernieB

2. 
   TomS | Aug 20, 2004 03:48pm | #6

   The Art Institute of Chicago has this piece in their collection:

   http://www.artic.edu/aic/collections/amer/53pc_townsend.html

   Maybe they could help you out with the measurements of your project.

   TomS

1. 
   AlanTurner | Aug 20, 2004 04:54pm | #7

   And here is another bureau table, this in the Met in NYC

   http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/jtwn/ho_10.125.83.htm

   I note that the measurements are different on the Chicago and the NY pieces.

   On one bureau desk, which is a "4" drawer (with 7 drawers), the top is 6", and the lower are approx 4.75, 5, and 5.25, descending.

   Alan

   http://www.alanturnerfurnituremaker.com

1. 
   MichaelHenderson | Aug 20, 2004 08:01pm | #9

   Thanks, Alan.  That certainly gives me more to go on.  I notice in your measurements that the top "drawer" is larger than any of the lower drawers.  Is that common?  Having such a large top drawer seems to throw off the design.

   Having the shells on the top drawer fools the eye to some extent but making it larger than even the bottom drawer seems too big to me.   What's your experience?

   BernieB

1. 
   AlanTurner | Aug 20, 2004 08:52pm | #11

   The Bureau Table, also known as a Newport Kneehole Desk, was sometimes (usually) just a bureau, but was occ. a desk as well. I am told that there are three confirmed pieces by Townsend that are desks. What this means is that the top drawer front is hinged, drops down to horiz., slides out a bit (not sure how far), and contains a typical secretary's gallery with cubbyholes and drawers in the back. The kneehole door opens, and there are one or 2 thin shelves inside. I think this configuration is not common. I think, but am not sure, that the one in the Met, in NY, is not a writing desk. The one at RISD is one of the confirmed writing desks by Townsend. I do not think it is on the web.

   I am not a person knowledgable about antiques, but do enjoy looking and learning.

   From a photo of a secretary by Townsend, I built a hutch, and used the feet of the secretary, as near as I could measure, for the flat bracket and ball feet on the hutch. The finished piece is on my website. The Townsend secretary sold at auction several years ago for 8 million or so, and was widely written up. And this, with replaced balls for the feet (which was disclosed, of course). The piece had lived in Paris from 1800 or so till about 2001 or so, when it was shipped back here for aution at one of the 2 big NY houses. One does not often see a ball and flat bracket foot, and my wife really liked it.

   http://www.furnituresociety.org/fin/town.html

   http://www.maineantiquedigest.com/articles/appl0399.htm

   pix here)

   Alan

   http://www.alanturnerfurnituremaker.com

1. 
   MichaelHenderson | Aug 20, 2004 10:03pm | #12

   Thanks for the information.  I had heard that about the Townsend knee hole - that on a very few the top drawer would drop to make a secretary desk.

   I looked at your web site and found the hutch.  You do very nice work!

   Thanks again for your notes.

   BernieB

2. 
   MichaelHenderson | Aug 21, 2004 09:29pm | #13

   I've had several people contact me by private e-mail expressing interest in the measurements of a Townsend blockfront/shell chest of drawers and asking me to share any information I learned.

   I'll be happy to do that, but I have another suggestion if you're interested in Townsend Blockfront-shell chests:  Send an e-mail note to the Fine Woodworking editor ([email protected]) and ask them to do one or more articles on this subject.  A Fine Woodworking editor has a much better chance of finding (or obtaining from a museum) the measurements of a Townsend chest.

   Building such a chest would be a challenging project and is something that I think many FW readers would like to challenge themselves with.  Let's see if we can get FW to help us obtain some measurements to base our designs on.

   Examples of these chests can be found at http://www.maineantiquedigest.com/buzz/buzz082.htm (the Sara Slocum chest)and http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/jtwn/ho_27.57.1.htm

   BernieB

2. 
   MichaelHenderson | Aug 20, 2004 08:06pm | #10

   Thanks Tom.  I'll check it out.  I notice that the URL you gave me points to a knee hole desk.  What I'm really looking for is measurements of a standard chest of drawers by Townsend but maybe the measurements of the knee hole desk can be applied to a standard chest of drawers.

   BernieB