Medium shoulder plane – Lie-Nielsen vs Veritas – opinions? Advice?
Nick11
| Posted in Hand Tools on
I will be purchasing a shoulder plane – most likely a medium size. I will be using it mostly for fine tuning tenons and shoulders.
Any thoughts or opinions will be appreciated.
Thanks
Replies
If possible, try holding each one you are considering
Why:
I like to be able to control my tools which means I have to be able to hold them properly. While I love the high quality of LN tools, I find the medium shoulder plane difficult to get a good grip on. Others seem to like it. The Veritas, while having a modern look, is far more ergonomic and also a high quality tool. There are two other options.
HNT Gordon shoulder plane. http://www.highlandwoodworking.com carries them. Here is a link to Gordon's website http://www.hntgordon.com.au/prodcat34sh.htm. I have his 1" shoulder plane and really like it. Very easy to setup and use. Mine works flawlessly plus it is a beautiful tool.
The new Stanley #92 shoulder plane is another option (it is the only tool in the new line worth considering). It is far better made than the original, better materials and better milling. The iron is A2 steel. Plus the top comes off for use as a chisel plane, very handy. There is one caveat though. They didn't get the soles and bed square to the sides on some of them so take a good small square with you and check the plane to make sure you've got one of the good ones before buying it.
A shoulder plane isn't really the best tool for working the sides of a tenon. A large router plane is the better tool for this. Second, is the LN rabbit block plane, which can also be used in place of a large shoulder plane. If all you want the shoulder plane for is tweaking tenons, the LN rabbit plane is a good way to go.
Hope I haven't confused you.
gdblake
I have both. I bought the LV and my father in law gave me his LN. Both are great, but if I had to choose only one, it would be the LV. It just feels more solid and well made to me.
doing this by mail order so holding one isn't an option unless I order both and return one which is a pain
A few years ago when I was making the same decision, both LN and LV were still doing the Woodworking Shows. I got a chance, one Saturday in Somerset NJ, to actually try both. My decision to buy the LN was based srtictly on subjective criteria about the way it felt in my hands. I think it was the look and feel of the bronze cap. Both planes are excellent. So good, in fact, that I suspect had I bought one without trying the other, I would have been very happy.
I'd second gdblake's comments about trying them, but if that is not an option in your case, just pick one and go with it. You cannot go wrong!
Yogi Berra said, "when you come to the fork in the road, take it."
Frank
planes and purposes
The LN shoulder planes are of a classic design, and just look cool. I would guess that actually using the medium or large version would require large hands and/or long fingers, though.
I agree with gdblake's observations about other planes being better suited to tenon adjustment. I recently purchased LN's rabbet block plane (with knickers) for that reason. Plus, there may be a reason the shoulder planes aren't called "shoulder and tenon planes". ;-)
Although I will be using the shoulder plane mostly for tuning tenons, I do expect that I will be using it to fine tune shoulders or any other spot planing. My reasoning is that the shoulder plane would give me more options especially since I already own a block plane..
I
Having more options is almost always a good thing, even though that forces one to select the most appropriate option for the task at hand. The simple solution, of course, is to buy both. ;-)
I use my LV medium shoulder plane very frequently and enjoy it very much. It is an excellent tool and the ergonomics are good. Can't compare it with LN tool, although they have an excellent reputation also.
Good luck, Tom.
I agree that being able to hold a tool is certainly the best way to go, but having been in the mail order situation myself, I feel ya.
I went with the Veritas, having had good luck with them on bench planes. Used it a few weeks ago for the first time cleaning up tenons; no complaints here.
With the comments on the block plane being better suited for cleaning up tenons, I am beginning to waiver on the shoulder plane. do any of you folks use the shoulder plane for other tasks?
I would not be considering a block plane (you mean a rabbet block plane or a skew block plane) as my first choice for tuning tenon cheeks. The router plane is first choice here. And the shoulder plane is no less important - just that it is needed for shoulders. It is also useful for many detail work, tuning the shoulders on moldings, raised panels, and breadboard ends.
I have not used the LN Medium shoulder plane. I did complete a review of the LV Small Shoulder plane (and touched on the LN equivalent) ..
http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/VeritasSmallShoulderPlane.html
.. and the LV Medium (compared with the HNT Gordon and Stanley #92) ...
http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/The%20Veritas%20Medium%20Shoulder%20Plane.html
Regards from Perth
Derek
shoulder plane for other tasks?
Oh yes. Very much so. I never use a shoulder plane for adjusting the thickness of tenons and I believe in my evil little black heart that you really have to mess up cutting the tenon out to even NEED it for trimming the shoulders! That said, if I need to do that, a good strong light source and a very sharp paring chisel work for me.
I have a very old Stanley 92 and an HNT Gordon shoulder plane and I use them for quite a number of other tasks - probably making raised panels, most frequently, but there are other tasks that they do very well.
These are two quite different tools and shouldn't be compared to each other as if they were the same thing, in my opinion. The 92 is a low angle plane and the HNT Gorden is a high angle plane. THey are complementary (note spelling) but not exactly interchangeable in my toolbox. When I'm making raised panels, sometimes one works better and sometimes the other works better, depending on the wood and grain situation - sometimes there doesn't seem to be much rhyme or reason about which one works better - I know there is a reason, I just don't spend much time fretting about it.
Have I sufficiently muddied the waters? Sorry about that. But in answer to your basic question - Yes! There are a lot of other tasks where a shoulder plane is the perfect tool. There was an article in FWW about this a while back. Good luck, EH
Have you considered the LN Rabbet block plane? I think of it as more versatile shoulder plane! Its larger size works very well for sizing tenons and can also work shoulders. As for the HNT Shoulder plane, I think they're pretty good too. I've got the 1/2 inch shoulder plane. But I tend to use the rabbet block plane a lot more, of course it's my only block plane too.
I, too vote for the LN Rabbet Block. It's an incredibly versatile tool and get the nickers. I use that plane more than any other in my arsenal, and it made trimming tenons easy.
Nickers?
We don't need no stinkin' nickers! Or maybe because that version wasn't available or I didn't know about that version when I was buying mine? The description sounds interesting though.
the jury is in...
I'm going with the LN Rabbet Block Plane with Nickers. Even tho I already own a block plane (a Stanley and a disappointment), I expect that I will use it more than I would the shoulder plane.
I would prefer both but the budget does not allow it.
Thanks to all for your help
the jury's verdict
If you are handy with a sewing machine, you might want to make it a little cape - it's a super little plane. ;-)
I tried them both, and bought the LV. I didn't think the difference was worth the extra cost of the LN and I've been saitsified. SPent the difference on other tools.
Nick11,
I know this is an 10 year old thread, but I'm at the same position you were in a decade ago. I was researching shoulder planes and stumbled upon this. My question: Are you happy with the rabbet block plane? Like you, I was looking to trim tenons. Thanks. Mark
I recently got an old stanley 92 and an old stanley 62 from Ebay. The 92 was in very good shape. I worked on the 62 and got it working well. They're old but get the job done to my satisfaction. Together they cost about $130.
ecyor. I'm just getting into old Stanley handplanes. Got a 4,5 and a 7 on the way. Pat Leach details the 92 and 62 on his very informative website:
http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan11.htm
I have both LN and Veritas. Personally I like the ergonomics of the Veritas better, and the side screws are a nice feature. Plus, I don't like the amount of side protrusion on the LN, which I know can be corrected with some grinding.
But since you mentioned tenons, a MUCH better way to pare a tenon is using a router plane with an elongated base. You will get a perfectly parallel tenon every time!!
Thanks, RobertEJr. I knew what a router plane looked like but I couldn't see how it would be effective way to trim tenons. Then I saw this on the internet: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOey3FGUywQ
I get what you mean.
Chris Gochnour suggests the large over the medium. It will work better on large tenons.
The only comment I can add in this decision is the PM-V11 that comes in the Veritas plane. Everything else being equal, I'd choose the Veritas just because of the PM-V11 iron.
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