Replies

1. 
   Ricks503 | Sep 07, 2005 11:33pm | #1

   Just a comment or 2, if using T&G router bits in a table, make some extension wings to support the stock, make sure you have at least a 2 1/4HP router. get it set up , making test cuts until you get it so that they produce a flat surface and tight joint (using scrap milled to same thickness),  Then do ALL of one part  (tounge or groove) then set up to make the other, using a work piece as the template.

   ALSO,  if the floor is 250 sq ft, figure to mill 300 sq ft to take care of shorts and mistakes and to put a few pieces aside for possible future repair work.

    

   Good luck, and when done take a nice picture and post it in the gallery

   1 - measure the board twice, 2 - cut it once, 3 - measure the space where it is supposed to go        4 - get a new board and go back to step 1
1. 
   bkunio | Sep 08, 2005 02:19am | #3

   Thanks Ricks503.  I can do all that you suggest.  I do have another question...does the bottom of each board have to be corrugated (for lack of the correct term) like I've seen some?  If so, that makes things a bit more difficult.

1. 
   mikegagne | Sep 08, 2005 07:06am | #10

   does the bottom of each board have to be corrugated Thats moulded and it doesnt have to be. Thats a feature that allows the floor to cup slightly and still remain flat with out squeaks. You can do it at the end with a dado blade on the table saw-1/8 deep is plenty. aloha, mike

1. 
   bkunio | Sep 08, 2005 07:30pm | #16

   Mike, what would the spacing be between each groove be if I were to do the moulding?

1. 
   mikegagne | Sep 09, 2005 06:40am | #30

   BKunio, you get to make up the groove spacing yourself but I would take out all the wood between the T+G leaving about a 1/2 in at the shoulders. Have fun! aloha, mike

2. 
   frenchy | Sep 08, 2005 12:38am | #2

   bkunio,

     I'm doing just that.  But I have well over 3000 bd. ft. to do so I bought a shaper/ 20" planer/  8" jointer etc..    I too am doing it both to save money ( a bunch even after paying for the machinery..)  and to get something that isn't available otherwise..    please be forewarned,  It's an awfull lot of work..  If you try to rush things to meet a deadline forget it!   If you can't work untill you are tired, rest and then come back and work somemore, forget it!  If you don't have good quality tools forget it!  If your social life or any other priority is more important then you will put off the work that needs to be done.

1. 
   bkunio | Sep 08, 2005 02:24am | #4

   That kind of work doesn't bother me but advice is well taken especially on the fatigue thing.  My problem is knowing when to stop!  Good thing is I don't have a deadline and I'm probably a year out from actually doing this work.  I'm just trying to learn and prepare for it as best as I can.

   Thanks frenchy.

1. 
   frenchy | Sep 08, 2005 03:14am | #5

   bkunio, the grooves milled into the bottom of the flooring are there for two reasons.   (well actually three) 

     First

         It cushions the floor and makes it slightly more comfortable to walk on

   Second

         It provides a swelling relief area  so if the flooring is installed too tight and the wood swells up under damp conditions there is a slight relief before everything buckles up..

     Third

        Many mills operater from self generated electricty and the shavings provide the source of  energy.  

         One salesman told me that shipping costs were also a consideration in that they can ship more flooring in  semi with reliefs than without..

     I Do know that I won't be adding them.    Many floors laid over a century ago never had them, and are still in fine shape.  Carlise who is a wide flooring specialist company doesn't use them and they do some of the finest homes in the nation..

   Edited 9/7/2005 8:17 pm ET by frenchy

1. 
   bkunio | Sep 08, 2005 05:07am | #6

   Frenchy, that's good to hear.  I really didn't want to do it unless I really had to.  Besides, I'm not sure how I'd do it with the tools I have.  I guess if I had the right router bit I could do it.  Anyway, it doesn't matter now since I'm probably not going to do the grooves.

   Thanks!

2. 
   peakbagger | Sep 08, 2005 06:17am | #7

   I was told they were there some sort of air movement (?) and to account for irregular subfloors.

1. 
   bkunio | Sep 08, 2005 07:55pm | #18

   Makes sense.

   Edited 9/8/2005 12:56 pm ET by bkunio

3. 
   jako17 | Sep 08, 2005 06:25am | #8

   Don't forget to end match the boards as well.I usually mill grooves into both pieces and use slip tongues.Another reason to put in back relief that frenchy missed (probably as he is laying over ply) is that it copes with slight irregularities in the subfloor.Most of my work has been on t+g boxcar subfloor in Victorian houses and the back relief helped

1. 
   bkunio | Sep 08, 2005 07:24pm | #14

   Good one...I hadn't thought of that.  Thanks!

2. 
   frenchy | Sep 09, 2005 04:03am | #25

   jako,

    I hadn't heard about that, (the grooves provide relief for irregular subflooring)..  And no, I sure as heck won't be putting my flooring over plywood..  Far too expensive!!!!!!

     Rather It will go over 2"x8"s  I bought 2x8's cheaper, much cheaper than I could by 3/4 inch plywood or evan 3/4" OSB,  These are full 2inches by 8 inches unlike lumberyard demensional wood which is 1 1/2 by 7 1/2   it makes a dramatically stiffer floor than 3/4 inch plywood does plus nails driven anyplace will hold whereas you should always drive nails into the joists when nailing into plywood.

       I hope I can convince a few others to go directly to sawmills rather than buy wood from lumberyards, home centers , or specialtywood stores..

       You'll find costs are dramatically lower once you cut out all the middlemen involed.  Plus sawmills usually don't have the ability to sort out and seperately price the really great pieces of wood.. the volume is too small and they don't have a market developed.   Thus when you buy from sawmills all those wonderfull woods that are seperated out and sold for tremendous prices at the wood working stores are sold for penny's (relatively speaking),  I bought 917 bd. ft, of a beautiful burl for 40 cents per board foot.. 

     They honestly were going to dump the log into the pile where they toss wood with metal in to eventually go to a land fill.. they saw all that wild grain pattern and knew their grader would grade the wood into the lowest grade at which point it doesn't pay for them to bother sawing it..

1. 
   peakbagger | Sep 09, 2005 04:29am | #26

   I've seen rotating dance floors installed on 2x6 as a subfloor on top of a steel frame. The subfloor was drum sanded to 60 grit to level it before the flooring was installed.

1. 
   frenchy | Sep 09, 2005 04:46am | #27

   peakbagger, 

       Yeh!   I've seen that too and thought that was all that I would need to do.   The first section of flooring that I laid wasn't sawn to very tight tolerances.  I failed to notice that fact in the rush to get that part of my home enclosed before winter. (which was already overdue)   As a result my great room has variation of well over 1/4 inch between a thin board and a thicker board..  I tried to sand it smooth with a floor sander and 25 grit paper but well it's pretty hard to sand a 1/4 of an inch off a floor.  I've resigned myself to using my portable planer on my hands and knees.  Luckily I have two that are 6 1/4 inches wide so it shouldn't take more than forever.....  grumble! grumble! grumble!  (and no I can't remove the boards and run them thru my planer) ,  I had carefully  glued and nailed everything down with ringshank nails. Plus timbers sit on the edge of the whole floor..

     The rest of my house I ran everything thru the planner first...

2. 
   jako17 | Sep 09, 2005 04:47am | #28

   How will you deal with the across grain movement of 2 by 8 possible cupping etc?Even laying the finish floor at 90* to the subfloor won't it loosen the fasteners?How about taking this thread to Breaktime and get some feedback?I would love to hear Luvditchburns opinion if he is still around

1. 
   frenchy | Sep 10, 2005 05:07am | #34

      jako17,

       Look at the way it was dealt with before  and deal with the cupping issue the same way..   I have a couple of boards that are cupping a bit and I'll plane them flat prior to installing the finish floor..  My attachment method will deal with issues like that..   Cross grain exists now on just about any home built that uses ship lapped boards or car siding or even good old fashioned lumber..

1. 
   jako17 | Sep 10, 2005 06:37am | #35

    Frenchy ,IMO Cross grain is not the issue, specifically it is the width of the boards, (I assume that they are not t+g ) that I feel is likely to give you problems with movement.

2. 
   frenchy | Sep 10, 2005 06:57am | #36

   jako17

         Please go look at a musium someplace that has a lot of old wood furnature..  look at all those wide boards..  unglued up wide boards free of cracks or warpage and  such  They've been that way for hundreds of years.. I've been to Europe where paintings are done on wide wood boards that are centuries old without a problem..

     Wide boards aren't  the harbringer of doom you seem to believe..

4. 
   mikegagne | Sep 08, 2005 07:02am | #9

   Bkunio, its a lot of work and will make you appreciate the ready made kind. With ohia, one of the hardest woods in Hawaii, you will probably use up some tooling at least and maybe a router as well. I cant imagine someone on the Big Island cant mill it for you cheaper than you can do it yourself if you take into account all the wear and tear. However, if you do it you will appreciate what its about. aloha, mike

1. 
   bkunio | Sep 08, 2005 07:28pm | #15

   Mike, thanks for the heads up.  There is one place I know of in Hilo that could probably do it but it's just something I want to do and understand.

2. 
   bkunio | Sep 08, 2005 07:59pm | #19

   Mike, I hear that Mango wood is used a lot for floors (and other things) on the BI.  I have a source but have never worked it.  Is that a better option?

1. 
   mikegagne | Sep 09, 2005 06:43am | #31

   Mango is an excellent material, has a medium density, beautiful pastel colors, spalts beautifully and much easier to work. One caveat, it is in the nightshade family and if you are poison ivy sensitive DO NOT breathe the dust. aloha, mike

1. 
   bkunio | Sep 09, 2005 08:00pm | #33

   Thanks Mike.  I don't know if I'm poison ivy sensitive but I don't want to find out the hard way.  And I gotchya on the groove spacing.  Mahalo, Bruce.

5. 
   Garry | Sep 08, 2005 03:50pm | #11

   I remodeled my entry and stairway last year and even though this will not show a traditional hardwoood flooring the landing I came up with may give you some ideas.

   This is the link to the landing

   http://www.superwoodworks.com/Projects/Stairs.htm

   Garry

   http://www.superwoodworks.com

1. 
   nikkiwood | Sep 08, 2005 04:12pm | #12

   I gotta say that landing is really slick, and I love the way it looks.********************************************************
   "It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."

   John Wooden 1910-

1. 
   Garry | Sep 08, 2005 06:37pm | #13

   "I gotta say that landing is really slick, and I love the way it looks."

   Thanks for the nice comments.The landing has generated a considerable amount of interest in the past. I had no idea when I generated the web page that would draw so many comments.

   Garryhttp://www.superwoodworks.com

1. 
   nikkiwood | Sep 09, 2005 05:18am | #29

   I think, too often, really competent woodworkers do stuff to just show off what they are capable of, and the result often jars one's sense of aesthetic logic. In the case of the tapered boards for the landing, it not only showcases your woodworking talent, but it is a beautiful, aesthetic touch that is just right for a landing. So, kudos to your skill -- but also your sense of design...................********************************************************
   "It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."

   John Wooden 1910-

1. 
   Garry | Sep 09, 2005 05:45pm | #32

   Thanks nikkiwood,

   You just made a cloudy morning brighter.

   Garryhttp://www.superwoodworks.com

2. 
   bkunio | Sep 08, 2005 07:48pm | #17

   Sweet landing!  How did you join each piece?  I can't tell for sure by the photos but are those biscuits that you're using to help hold the clamps in place and did you keep them in to join each board?  I looked at your gallery...nice work.  Some day...

1. 
   Garry | Sep 08, 2005 08:39pm | #20

   I used biscuits to assist the alignment when gluing. I could only glue 3 or 4 pieces at a time because the angle changed so rapidly. The biscuits on the outside strip were as you thought, used to hold the clamps from slipping and were set in the cavity without glue.Thanks for the compliments,

   Garryhttp://www.superwoodworks.com

6. 
   Norse | Sep 08, 2005 10:50pm | #21

   Instead of T & G consider Groove and Groove with a spline as the tounge.  It will be easier to mill on your machinery and wastes less lumber.  If you glue the splines, only glue them on one board.

   Norse

1. 
   bkunio | Sep 08, 2005 11:38pm | #22

   I see...I'd have two instead of three cuts, with the tools I have.  However, I still have to make the spline.  I guess that wouldn't be too hard.

   Is this common practice?  Has anyone done this successfully?  Forgive my ignorance.

1. 
   peakbagger | Sep 09, 2005 02:43am | #23

   It's called slip-tongue, you can buy it from a good flooring place and save the craftsmanship for what is seen.
   Slip-tongue is normally used in repairs or when installing large areas of flooring and you start in the middle.

1. 
   bkunio | Sep 09, 2005 03:28am | #24

   Cool.  I'll look to see if it's available around here.