Replies

1. 
   Frank Vucolo | Aug 11, 2010 10:17pm | #1

   You are right on target....

   Hi rockar,

   I think you're on target understanding you need to joint a face and an edge and for coming for advice before starting.

   In short (and to recap what I think you have already read,) you need to get one face of the board flat and true to act as a reference moving through the planer to make the other side flat and true, parallel to the other face. You then need to get one edge straight, true and 90 degrees to the face. From there you can rip the board and come up four square.

   Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I'll assume because you're new to the craft and asking these questions, that you are not accomplished with hand tools and that facing and jointing are not tasks you are comfortable doing with hand planes.

   OK, for facing a board (jointing the face) without a jointer, two techniques come to mind. You can attach two "rails" to the edges of your boards to ride on the table of your planer creating a straight reference. Run the board through taking light cuts until the face is true, remove the rails, flip the board and plane the other side. Another technique reguires building a plywood sled on which you will mount the stick you want to face, using shims to stabalize it, and running it through until you establish a true face. Flip it, run it without the sled and you're good. If you research the FWW articles here, you will find examples of these two procedures.

   For jointing an edge, you have to attach your board to a straight board. The straight board rides the rip fence of your table saw. The straight board can be a piece of plywood. Here's some ideas on doing that http://www.toolcrib.com/blog/2009/02/09/6-table-saw-jointing-jig-plans-straight-edge-no-jointer/

   All these solutions, however, are work-arounds. Your objective should be to work toward getting a jointer and toward learning basic hand tool skills. But I can see you're eager to get going and can't blame you.

   I want to caution that you should not be ripping down those cupped boards on a table saw, particularly if you don't have a jointed edge. As the board is cut, the two halfs will no longer be supported. They will want to move and could bind, causing a dangerous situation. You should have a reasonably flat face and a jointed or guided edge before ripping.

   Welcome to woodworking and welcome to Knots.

   Good luck,

   Frank

1. 
   rockar15 | Aug 12, 2010 05:54am | #2

   thanks for the advice frankfive.

   Questions i still have are should i cut the boards close to the intended length, can i cut them down the center on my jigsaw so when i run them through the planer iam not  taking off so much, also once i get them milled up should i start my glue up so the boards dont twist.

1. 
   Frank Vucolo | Aug 12, 2010 08:37am | #3

   Rockar,

   I like to leave my stock full length when planing. This way any snipe that shows up (and some will) will be minimal as a portion of the total board.

   You would be fine ripping your rough boards with a jigsaw, handsaw or bandsaw.

   Don't worry about twist. I'm sure the spirits that guide new woodworkers into the craft will see to it that everything comes off straight.

   OK, maybe not :)

   I'd say that if a board has a little twist - such that when you clamp it into the glue up with the straight boards, it acquiesces with gentle clamp pressure - use it. If it's really noodle-like don't go cranking on your clamps with a pipe wrench to make it work. Scratch that board.

   There are some things you can do to minimize twist. After you rip your boards, sticker them in your shop (stacked with spacers between so air can circulate all sides) and let them sit a day or two. When you plane, try to plane an equal amount off each side. Plane your boards part way to final size, sticker them again a couple of days, then take them to final size, removing any twist that showed up.  

   OK, so that's what you should do. If time and patience allows, do it that way. But in the real world we don't have that kind of time or we simply want to keep moving with a project. I find that most twist comes relatively soon after we relieve internal stresses in the wood through milling. (One of the reasons table saws have splitters is that the kerf can start closing immediately after coming off the blade.) Simply put, if it's good 15 minutes after milling it, it's very likely going to stay that way. I often go from milling to joining in the same day because my available work time dictates that I should.

   Every project is a learning experience. Work safely, don't rush and enjoy yourself. 

   Frank

1. 
   SteveSchoene | Aug 14, 2010 10:56pm | #4

   I prefer to cut boards close to length before jointing and planing.  You will end up loosing less width or thickness that way.  If you hav e snipe problem with your planer then leave enough to be able to cut off the excess.  The better lunchbox planers these days have snipe minimal enough that it can be removed  easily enough without having to cut off the whole snipe area. 

   Frank is right about always stickering boards in process, particularly if you have a shop that isn't climate controlled. 

   But, I really don't advise not allowing some time between rough milling and the final dimensioning.  It can make all the difference between getting really good results and those that are just OK. 

   Problems with boards is why buying 10% or 20% "excess" lumber is a very good idea.  The scrap can almost always find a use down the road. 

   A basic hand plane--perhaps a $40 Stanley Bailey no. 4 or 5 from E-bay can, with a little tuning up,  really help advance the project, making it easier to get to an edge safe to rip, and a surface flat enough to mill with a lunchbox planer. 

2. 
   bones | Aug 15, 2010 10:02am | #5

   several ways to skin this cat

   There are a couple ways to get this done.  Since the boards were very wide and cheap, I'll assume they are flat sawn (cathedrial pattern not strait lines).  If you only need 4" wide strips, if you look at the edge of the board on the outside edges you will notice you actually have some QS there and could rip the outsides and get the best and stable stuff.  Then use a hand plane and a couple winding sticks to take her to flat (been there done that)  Now I would suggest taking the parts down close to finish size but keep a little long and wide.  It makes it easier to get them flat.  I'd also reccomend rob cosmans rough to ready dvd its great.  I was amazed how fast you could get boards flat with just a hand plane. It's also very quiet and the elbow grease is green technology :)   Again a hand plane will get that second edge at 90 to the flat face and then you are where you would be at if you had a nice power jointer.   Alternative to a hand plane, there are articles here on building a sled to use with a planer.  While I've not used that another option would be a jig set up to allow your router to acomplish the task.  I've seet that used to flatten large tops.    Like I said lots of ways to get-r-done  (sorry Larry)

   Here is a link to rob cosmon talking about winding sticks.  His are very nice, but i've used just two strait pieces with the edges painted black with a sharpie.  

   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDgwhSmvX-c

3. 
   jfsksa | Aug 26, 2010 10:59am | #6

   use short boards for the top?

   I'll take a chance here and risk getting flamed.  It seems if you are milling rough lumber with lots of cups and twists, then it is likely that you would end up with some boards that are nice and flat/straight, but are shorter than the length of the bench top.  Why not join them end to end, using dowels or biscuits, to make longer boards? 

   Then glue them up for the top, making sure that the joints are not side by side, similar to the way a hard wood floor is laid.  Make sure the outer boards on the top are full length.  It seems that the top would be structurally sound, given that most bench tops are 3" or more thick.

   Hair-brained idea or not?

1. 
   Eef | Aug 26, 2010 02:32pm | #7

   jf.

   sounds quite feasible and a great way to save lumber.  the little 12" planer in my shop does not exert a great deal of pressure at the in-feed rollers and i can often take the cup out of a board by light cuts on the two high spots till flat and then flip it over and begin the thicknessing.

   eef

1. 
   rockar15 | Aug 27, 2010 08:39pm | #8

   what i ended up doing

   I actually have one section of my bench top glued up.

   What i did was cut boards close to length,cut cupped boards on bandsaw,sent through planer,made

   a jig that frankfive sent me on a link (thanks frank) to get a straight edge on tablesaw,

   glued milled boards up and finally sent through planer again.

   I am actually pretty impressed at how good my first section came out.

   Only mistake I made was that i didnt put cauls and clamps at ends so some

   boards shifted up alittle ,but i stilled ended up with a 4in thick oak top and did buy some clamps

   to fix that for the next section.

   Thanks for everyones input, it really helped.