I finished building “Norm’s Router Table” a couple of weeks ago and installed a Milwaukee 5625 (3.5 hp) which ran like a charm … for about 15 minutes. Today when I was ready to use it again it was dead. Nothing. I left it at the local Milwaukee service center in Asheville for repair under the 5 year warranty. (Since I had it for more than 30 days, the replacement policy had expired.) Was told it would be a week before they would get a chance to look at it.
I offer this since much has been made about the difference between “cheap” tools and “quality” tools. I suppose it can happen to any of them; although, my 2 PC routers are still going strong after several years I’m just lucky that my livelihood does not rely on this.
Roy
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Replies
Time to write the corporate offices!
>> Time to write the corporate offices!
Why? Sounds like the are taking care of it appropriately. It's not unusual for a repair center to take a week to look at a tool.
In general, Milwaukee has had an excellent reputation for many years. They have recently been sold but I have not heard of the degradation in quality.Howie.........
"Why write to the corporate offices?" Why not? If someone has a bad experience at the customer service department, someone higher up should hear about it. Bad service costs a lot of companies in many ways, not just with that one person. There is a saying in retail- "If you have a happy customer, they'll tell 3 people. If you have an unhappy customer, they'll tell 10 people". Being told that it will take a week to get to it isn't bad customer service. Being told they should have bought it from that location and NOWHERE else is. That's BS. If someone wants to increase their sales but can't accept that there's enough business to go around, they should do a better job of dealing with customers or do something else.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
It's not unusual for a repair center to take a week to look at a tool. I have Milwaukee tools.. I like them ALOT.. However if I needed them for my WORK it would not be satisfactory.. I would want a 'loaner'..I could wait a week BUT somebody making a living off of the tool can't!Just me...
"I suppose it can happen to any of them" Absolutely! What really sucks, IMHO, is that the repair center can't (won't?) look at it for a week. Might just be the switch, eh?
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
I brought a model 5616 two years ago. The switch was wired backwards so that when you plugged it in, it would not turn off. Since I brought it through an internet catalog, I called Milwaukee customer service to see what my options were to getting it repaired. They suggested that I take it to the local service center because I would get the quickest response. That day reminded me why I could not work in customer service because I really vented on a poor person trying to make a living about how disappointed I was with Milwaukee destroying my trust in what at one time was a great manufacturing company(and product) because they wanted to make an extra buck by using cheap(1 will get you 20 off shore) and then not having a quality control program to capture blatantly defective product. If you plugged it in an outlet you knew it was defective.
it only get better when you go to the service center and the attitude was why are you bothering me. The service tech has the nerve to tell me that I deserved to have a problem because I did not buy it from his store or one of the nation chain store that would replace it because everyone knew that 1 in (cannot remember the exact number) were expected to be defective. On a side note, his price was $150 more than what I paid from the internet catalog plus 4.5% sales tax. He told me to expect at least a 4 week delay because parts were not available. After the 25 mile drive home, a call was waiting on the answering machine saying I could come pick the router up because it was only the switch wired backwards. Milwaukee has made it last sale to me.
Sad thing is, after this nasty beginning, this model is the best router I have ever used, intelligently engineered, easy to adjust.
I recently bought a refurb Milwaukee 5615 [1 3/4hp] router from Amazon. It came with a chipped height adjuster knob. I asked amazon to send me a replacement knob, but instead they had me ship the router back to them [they paid], and sent me a perfect replacement, which has run flawlessly. Took two extra weeks, and I thought they should've checked the refurb out before shipping...but the small print says refurbs may come with cosmetic defects. In any case, apart from the delay, I'm satisfied. I appreciate your post, good to have warnings about such problems.
While there may actually be a parts/manufacturing issue with this router, you may want to check the recepticle for ground or reversed hot/neutral issues.
I have a dust collector that has worked well, but the last time I used it for any length of time, it started acting flakey, then when I wanted to turn it on again, it wouldn't go. Turns out, the power switch had gotten hot enough for the plastic housing to soften and the contacts separated. The 5" hose going from the blower to the bags had been kinked in a couple of places and I figured that the added back pressure caused the blower motor to draw more current, making the switch overheat. Granted, I have seen switches that looked a LOT more durable, but it could have been a bigger problem than it was. My table saw is on a separate 220V circuit from the collector and the garage is only about 2 years old, wired properly(actually, I have 12 gauge going to all of the recepticles). A bad ground, flakey connection or old/inadequate/aluminum wiring could also cause this kind of thing. Hopefully, it's not a major problem now that you have the router back.
My first thought was a failed receptacle. I took the router out of the table and tried it in 2 different receptacles that were running other machines and still dead. If it weren't for the 5 year warranty that Milwaukee offers, I would have opened it and fixed it myself. My shop is 2 years old, I did the wiring myself and it was inspected by the county inspection department. Nothing has ever indicated a problem with wiring, so I feel confident it's the router. I grant you, if someone else had done it, I wouldn't be so confident.
Somewhere I read that Milwaukee used crimp connections at the switch and sometimes they vibrate loose. Service centers are to solder these connections. So in a week I may have and answer for you.
Roy
Crimp connectors aren't a problem unless they're not crimped correctly, and it's easy to do that. They will endure vibration if they're not crimped right, though. They may pull off, but usually won't vibrate off since the space they're in is usually pretty tight. If they ever start to use wire nuts, I'm going to the engineering department and raising he!! myself!. I know a senior design engineer there and we have talked about the whole American company/Asian manufacturing deal. It's all just a balancing act where the company wants to bring something to market at a particular price for the desired performance and they find someone who can supply it within a set of parameters. Some tools are assembled in the US because the company doesn't want to pay tarrifs on finished goods(cheaper to build a factory, train people and pay them far more than their Asian counterparts and then ship the goods to this country and then pay tarrifs), but the parts and/or sub-assemblies are from offshore. The company in this case, Milwaukee Power Tool, does extensive destructive analysis to see what the tool can go through and still survive. Just like most, if not all, other manufacturers. Sometimes it's a design issue, sometimes it's manufacturing, materials or assembly. The assembly part is where human factors come in the most. Not that I doubt your electrical skills, but if you have a circuit tester, maybe you could use that and do a visual inspection to see if any of the recepticles have loosened(from back-stabbing the wires into the recepticle) or a screw terminal or wire nut has loosesed. You didn't back-stab the wires, did you?
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
I like the post..
Seems OK.. Electrical Engineer here BUT we had just Vacuume tubes!
The only thing I don't like about tubes is the amount of space they require and the amount of heat they generate(unless it's winter). I still think there's nothing like a great tube amp.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
You aren't going to believe this. The service center, an independent contractor in Asheville, NC, called today to say that I could pick up my router. It only took 1 business day, rather than a week as I was originally told. That's the good news.
The rest of the story: The service tech explained that he didn't have to open the motor, he just blew it out and shook it. "Must have been dirt in it." I told him that I had hit it with compressed air, but that didn't fix it. He shrugged his shoulders and explained that the warranty didn't cover dirt. After paying $14 I walked out with my router.
A call to Milwaukee: The regional service manager explained that in a router table the wood dust is not blown away from the motor as when used in an upright position. I commented on the neat wrench that Milwaukee provides to adjust height from above the table, indicating to me that the router was expected to be used in a table. This is true, but dust can accumulate when in that position and it probably interfered with the contacts in the switch. Apparently unable to refund $14 charged by the "independent contractor" he offered to send me some screwdriver bits valued at $20. The manager that I spoke to was very polite and understanding.
Does this sound like something that should be referred to the engineering department?
Roy
I just bought a Milwaukee 5625 router- choosing it over the PC 7518 which is about the same price. It will be a dedicated table router and I'm adding a shop vac under the table which will connect to my fence. Based on this thread, I think I will direct the exhaust from my shop vac towards the router bit from under the table to keep dust off the motor. In one of the FWW article a few years back on "The Ultimate Router Table" I think they did something similar.
- Lyptus
Lyptus, That sounds like a plan. The normal flow of cooling air through the router goes in the head of the router and exits at the collet. Your plan should supplement this flow and hopefully eliminate (or at least reduce) dust buildup. Is your router enclosed in the table or does it hang in the open under the table?
Looks like I need to make some change in my table if I expect this router to perform reliably.
Roy
I'm in the process of designing and building my table so my router currently sits on my bench. I plan to have it enclosed on three sides and open at the front to allow access to the release button, etc. I recently purchased a new 11 amp, 14 gallon Rigid shop vac for $99.00 that is quiet and seems to provide plenty of suction power for a router table. It is a bit on the large size but I'm hoping that'll be o.k. because my router table will be 27" x 38" to accomodate an Incra LS Positioner that I also recently bought. I should be able to fit the shop vac and the router under the table comfortably. I have a small shop so this whole set-up may be problematic. But, I will make the table a bit shorter than normal- about 36" and clamp my Incra fence to the table so that I can remove it and use the table as an infeed/outfeed table for bench work when needed.
- Lyptus
Lyptus, Based on my recent experience, I think your idea of the vacuum at the fence area is the way to go, as the Milwaukee prefers to be sucked from above.
I also need to mention that in my conversation with the regional manager, he assured me that Milwaukee does not use crimped connectors. I, in error, had made reference to this in an earlier post.
Roy
Yeah, I will definitely hook the vacuum suction hose to the fence but I am also planning to direct the filtered vacuum exhaust up towards the collet from beneath the table to blow dust away from the motor housing. It's possible this may just blow it all into my face while routing but I can easily re-direct the exhaust if needed.
- Lyptus
No back stabbing for me. I'm retired and it doesn't matter how long it takes me to do something. I've got the rest of my life.
roy
No back stabbing for me. I'm retired and it doesn't matter how long it takes me to do something. I've got the rest of my life.THAT WAS FUNNY... I'd have to hurry up a 'bit'....
Back in the old day's Mill tools were tanks, and from what I hear they still are. Anything that has moving parts can break. Hate you have to wait a week. Let us know what it turned out to be.
Bones, That's one of the reasons I didn't hesitate in buying a Milwaukee. I have bought a number of tools over the last few years and someone decided it was my turn to have a problem. The day I took it in for service, a guy was there with one of their reciprocating saws that looked like it had been through both World Wars and all he needed was a new switch. I have confidence that when my router is fixed it will last a lifetime.
Roy
Our business has been using Milwaukee tools for over thirty years. I would say we have around 35 from sawzalls to their big mag drills and about everything in-between. We put our tools through the wringer because we do have to make a living and the end result is frequent trips to the repair shop. Recently, we sent a 20+ year old portable band saw in, and it ended-up being a $300 job to fix. The shop called to see if we wanted to go ahead, we of course declined. Unfortunately, they recieved a box of parts and we had to buy a new PC Porta-Band (for less than the repair cost) which has been a quality tool so far. I believe the red tools are high quality and we will use them for years to come, but I am in now way loyal to them. They owe us nothing. They are tools and have done their jobs. If any tool proves to be unsatisfactory, we find a better one. That is the beauty of competition. I must also add that Milwaukee's specialty began with metal-working trades with their bomber drill motors (of which we have probably owned 10+) and still use 70's vintage ones everyday. Their woodworking tools have just recently become competitive.
I was a Tank Mechanic.. You would be amazed what breaks.. Stuff a bomb couldn't do!But then again we tightened stuff up till we heard a 'crack' and backed it off a 1/4 turn....
"But then again we tightened stuff up till we heard a 'crack' and backed it off a 1/4 turn...."
You sound like my older brother. He's a HD Mechanic, and a good one at that, but his Tap & Die set, sees more use than most. LOL
Cheers. Walker1
FWIW, I worked in a tool sales shop from 1990-1994. We sold Milwaukee, Makita, DeWalt, Bosch, Skil, B&D, and Wen. Next to Wen, which were complete junk tools, Milwaukee came back defective far more than any other brand. It seemed like they had good heavy duty components, but the quality control on manufacturing was weak.
Some of you may remember my "altercation" with Milwaukee, and the resolution:
http://forums.taunton.com/tp-knots/messages?redirCnt=1
We (Milwaukee and I) made the best of that mess and I will certainly keep Milwaukee in my "consider strongly" pile for future needs.
Ed, I,m interested in reading, but your reference # seems to lead elsewhere. Check it please.
Roy
Edited 11/1/2005 11:09 am ET by GrGramps
Curious:
http://forums.taunton.com/tp-knots/messages?msg=13901.1
That looks better! And, just to be more thorough:
http://forums.taunton.com/tp-knots/messages?msg=13760.1
Sorry for the confusion.
Ed, Thanks for posting your reference which was pretty interesting and partially explains how Milwaukee has maintained a good reputation. My disappointment is with B&K Tools and Supply in Asheville, NC, where I was told that dust is not covered under the 5 year warranty. Although I had not run the router more than 15 minutes total, enough dust had entered preventing the motor from starting. Whether the dust was in the switch, the brushes, or some other part, I'll never know. I had blown it clean, as far as I could tell, before taking it in for service. My present concern is whether this will be an ongoing problem.
It would be interesting to know if Milwaukee is working on anything to revise this tool so that future models can operate in dusty conditions, as routers do, and continue to run.
I'm still glad that I bought this tool and I note that, although 15 amps, it is not as noisy as my 10 amp PC router.
Roy
For the boatload of tools out there, including the copycat junk from the east, I am really grateful for the great service my sawzall, drill and handheld grinder have provided over the years. To me, this company represents the last of a dying era of truly well made American tools. One bad apple don't spoil the bunch, and relatively speaking, I'd bet their failure rate is less than 1%.
Cheers.
My super sawzall ground to a halt after about four years of fairly moderate use. I took it in to the local Milwaukee service center. Told them to call me about repair charge, since I was pretty sure it was some kind of gear that broke, and assumed that would be expensive. So they call me, said I was right (about the gear thing), but there would be no charge. I was appreciative, but I wonder if the guy was influenced by the fact I told him if the repair was more than $100, I was going to buy a Hilti -- since everybody was praising it to high heaven on the FHB forum. So if they are letting a few clunkers slip through now and then, they seem genuinely interested in doing the right thing and keeping their customers happy. And I suspect he knew I would tell the story ever chance I got, and I have.For all I know, the repair may have been dead simple, but the gesture was what counted, and as you can see, it made me both a believer and a defender of their brand.BTW, I subsequently had a chance to actually use one of the hearalded Hiltis -- much praised for their low vibration. On this score, which is important for recip saws, I think the Milwaukee is superior.********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
Do you know how long the warranty is for your Sawzall? I have the 18V Hammer Drill and it's covered for 5 years. Yours may still be under warranty.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
You mean I have this warm, fuzzy feeling about Milwaukee's generosity and they HAD to fix the thing under warranty?I never asked, and assumed it was a year.I never filled out a warranty card, so do they have some other way of knowing how long you've had the tool -- other than take your word for it?********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
Maybe they were just being nice, but if you don't have a receipt, there's a production date on the tool. Don't lose the warm fuzzy feeling though.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
I recently received two Milwaukee 5625 routers from Amazon. I compared them both, side by side and noticed that one of them really grinded the gears when powering down while the other powered down quite smoothly. Therefore, I suspect there is a problem with quality control although I will keep the first router and anticipate being very happy with it.
For those considering purchasing one, it might be worth it to order two and keep the better one. At least, check it out thoroughly when you get it and don't hesitate to return it within 30 days if not satisfied.
- Lyptus
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