Milwaukee tools (warning, a rant)
A few weeks ago I needed to stir up some paint, so I reached up to the top shelf for my Milwaukee 3/8” drill. To my surprise, when I went to chuck the paint stirrer, there was no chuck… The output shaft ended flush with the gear case, and the missing chuck remained on the top shelf… No urchins here, no “Nope, not me Dad.”
No convenient service facilities either, and the nearest will not sell parts.
I emailed Milwaukee from their website:
Name: Ed Harrow
Company:
Title:
Phone: 508 435 4057
Email: [email protected]
Comments:
My Milwaukee 3/8 drill is about ten years old. It’s had a pretty easy life all in all, mostly doing a bit of paint stirring here and there, all the real work being done by cordless unit.
Anyway, the other day I picked it up to do a bit of stirring and, surprise, surprise, the chuck remained behind on the shelf. Anyway, the output shaft (or whatever one calls it) had simply sheared right off… A bit of a surprise, that!
I called Protool in Waltham the other day when I was over that way picking up some knives from Needham Saw, and was surprised that:
1. They don’t sell parts.
2. The individual with whom I spoke was unable to tell me the cost of having them do the repair. (I called on a Saturday.)
So, I’m curious, can I get parts to repair this unit? Should I expect this sort of failure in future Milwaukee products that I might purchase? I’d tell you the model number but the thing is still in the trunk of my car.
Thanks for listening.
Ed
I got the following response:
At 09:18 AM 8/13/2003 -0500, you wrote:
I would recommend taking this tool to the closest authorized service station for a warranty evaluation. A complete list of MILWAUKEE branch office service centers, and authorized service centers can be accessed through our website at
http://www.mil-electric-tool.com/service.nsf/
By ‘selecting and searching’ your State in the pull down found on our ‘Product Service’ page you would be able to find Milwaukee service facilities nearest you.
Please let me know if you have any more questions.
Sincerely,
MILWAUKEE ELECTRIC TOOL CORPORATION
[name edited out]
Technical Correspondent
I replied:
Hi [name],
I already did that (look on the Internet), that is how I found Pro Tool.
Interesting, no comment was made by the party with whom I spoke at Pro Tool that this could be a warranty item. There are no service centers particularly convenient to me, so I will truck the drill back to Pro Tool for a look see.
Thank you for your quick response.
Ed
Milwaukee replied:
If you have any problems with Pro Tool please have them call me at
1-800-729-3878.
So it turns out that this drill
Is actually 17 years old (a present from SWMTMH), and that such a failure is considered by Milwaukee Electric Tools to be “normal wear”. View Image (Note there is no express time limit to the Milwaukee warranty). I wasn’t notified that this would be a charged repair, so, for $61.11, better than two-thirds the cost of a new one, View Image I got the old one back… View Image View Image View Image You bet I’m PO’d! Anyone here ever have the output shaft on a drill break? The way this is looking I don’t think I’ll be buying another Milwaukee product.
Thanks for listening, Ed
Replies
Ed,
Ouch! I'd put this one on the service center. I've had my sawzall in many times, and it was always covered under the "lifetime" warranty, and surely fell in the range of normal wear. I'd guess what they charged you exceeded the payment they would have gotten from Milwaukee so they chose to go after you rather then Milwaukee. Besides, this one does not at all sound like normal wear. Never even heard of it happening let alone to a Milwaukee! ?????????????
Don
Edited 9/8/2003 5:45:15 PM ET by Don C.
Ditto what Don C had to say.
Milwaukee has always been very good to me. Outstanding company.
BWTB that Pro Tool put it to you.
Try this link. It's an email address at Milwaukee Tool to some one that gives a damn.
Be nice.
[email protected]
Who ever invented work didn't know how to fish....
I had a Milwaukee palm sander that at about 3 years of age developed a nasty sounding noise. I promptly packed it up and returned it to Milwaukee for service. Shortly thereafter I received an estimate for repair that was about 175% of the cost of a new one. And by the way, please remit $18.00 to cover the cost of the estimate.
I went to HD and bought a PC (which I think has a better way to hold the sandpaper) for considerably less than Milwaukee's repair cost. Left me with a sour taste. Art
IMERC, Looks like that address is no longer any good...
"Unknown host: [email protected]"
Other than that, no news.
I'll look into that.
Try 1-800-SAW-DUST.
Bill may still be there.
Who ever invented work didn't know how to fish....
ED, Stirring paint or spackle with a long slender paddle mixer, calls for low speed.
Due to the long length of the shaft and the viscosity of the mixed material,the strain on the shaft is considerable. Centrifical force at the chuck end actually 'wrings' the shaft and tries to bend and twist the weakest point. Ordinary use of your drill consists of thrust pressure (handled by a thrust bearing) and radial motion ( handled by the ball or roller bearings.
The shaft, where reduced to pass through the bearing. is radioused to eliminate a sharp shoulder (which would fail if not radioused ) assures resistance to twisting forces...HOWEVER, Long attachments are a NO NO. Would you try to rout with a 4" router bit extending from a router speeding at 15000 rpms? I think not. Stein
I had a Milwaukee drill similar to yours (model 0222-1, right?) that broke
at the shaft similarily to the way you describe. However, at the time it broke I was driving 3" drywall screws into 2 X 4's without a pilot hole.I just figured I overstressed it, and got it repaired by my local tool repair place.That was about 15 years ago, or thereabouts.
I don't know what to tell you about getting yours fixed. It sounds to me like Milwaukee should repair it under warranty, since at least you didn't overstress it.I'd try them again, and talk to a different person, or write them a letter stating what happend, and politely asking for a repair under warranty .I've found that I personally get better results from customer service departments by asking for what I want nicely.
Thanks for your comments. I'm always polite, LOL, even when the Milwaukee rep told me that, because it was "20 years old" at which point I protested that it couldn't possiblybe 20 years old, and he then corrected himself, 17 years old, I let him know, politely, that I wasn't pleased with the way they back their product.
Stein, I have more than passing awareness of the mechanics you mention, and you are, of course, quite right. In my defense I offer that there is no note in the accompanying manual (yup, sometimes it's good to be a bit anal, LOL) that says "This device is a drill, and is not meant to be used for stirring paint, and such use shall be considered abuse and thereforewill void the warranty." Further, my older Crapsman, and my father's still older B&D (for certain the latter) have stirred more paint than this Milwaukee.
IMERC, thanks for that address. If I don't hear from them soon, I will check in with him, and yes I promise to be polite, LOL.
Edited 9/8/2003 11:29:19 PM ET by EdHarrow
Ed, Corbert Garb is the head of one their departments. He seems to have good values. He is good people.
He has taken care of several problems for others in the past that I know of and one for me. He is not a miricale worker but he is fair.
I have a very large collection of Milwaukee and they have been very good to me. The tools and the company. A lot of these tools are well over 20 years old. The oldest is around 35. Some times I demand the tools do something for me that would absolutely make you cringe. I doupt your tools lead the miserable life that mine do.
There many vendors out there and you could do a lot worse than Milwaukee.
When the debate about horse power was going on Corbit gave me the information to post as to how tool HP is computed.
Who ever invented work didn't know how to fish....
Good grief, any metal part, particularly one placed under dynamic load can fail after that many years due to a combination of metal fatigue and intergranular corrosion. The stress fractures can be invisible to naked eye and only picked seen with a microscope or xray using dye penetrant techniques. I saw it with helicopter parts many times during the years that I flew them. It's unpredictable. The steel probably picked up a contaminant (a bit of dust or foreign particle) in the manufacturing process which initially started the corrosion process. You could have fifty other drills manufactured by Milwaukee on the same day as yours that all last for 50 years. The specific manufacturer probably has little to do with this type failure. It happens occasionally. You should get over it. For the most part I've found Milwaukee tools to be particularly well-made these days. My router rocks, but it doesn't mention a lifetime warranty.
Ed
Ed, I understand the gist of your comments, especially these:
"The steel probably picked up a contaminant (a bit of dust or foreign particle) in the manufacturing process which initially started the corrosion process. You could have fifty other drills manufactured by Milwaukee on the same day as yours that all last for 50 years. The specific manufacturer probably has little to do with this type failure. It happens occasionally." (Emphasis added).
Your comments seem to support the idea that the failure was caused by a manufacturer's defect. :-)
"My router rocks, but it doesn't mention a lifetime warranty. "
View Image
Hmmm, yesterday I got a picture to post in the thread, don't know how I managed to that then, but not now, so you'll need to click on the link to read Milwaukee's warranty, as printed in 1986, for their products. (There, that's better.)
Edited 9/9/2003 12:46:52 PM ET by EdHarrow
Great. I just think its kind of pointless to gratuitously bash an American tool mfr. in a public post when there are so few of them left. I hope Milwaukee does right by you. I would write to them and follow up on it. Maybe even show them a copy of this thread.
There was another thread on here a few months ago that involved a 20 yr. old router bit snapping at the shank. The user was quite perturbed and emphasized that there were no visible signs of failure prior to it snapping in two. I would bet my bottom dollar that was caused by intergranular corrosion/ microscopic stress fractures/ metal fatigue as well.
We used to have to take some dynamic components (i.e. tail rotor pitch change link bolts) off of our helos at regular intervals and xray them (with the dye penetrant) to look for this phenomenon/ syndrome. After a certain interval, say 500 flight hours, we just replaced them with new, for safety's sake. The old ones made good paperweights.
Good luck. Ed
Ed, sorry this has soured you toward Milwaukee electric. I would testify that the treatment you received is by far the exception and not the rule. As far as i know, Milwaukee extends a lifetime waranty to all of its products except for batteries and other cordless products. I feel complelled to say that the support i have received from Milwaukee far exceeds that of any other company. I am trully impressed with their people, especially those who monitor their heavy duty club talk forums. From my experience, they stand behind their products and are more than willing to answer your questions.
If you had dropped the drill just once and it landed on the chuck that could have started the process for shaft failue.
Who ever invented work didn't know how to fish....
Yes, it is obviously quite possible that at some point in time I could have whacked the chuck in one way or another. I wouldn't be nearly as annoyed with the situation if I had been told, before the repair, that it wasn't going to be covered under the warranty, and if I could have purchased the shaft and fixed it myself. In that case I never would have gone to Milwaukee in the first place, and would never even have had the sent of a warranty wafting across my nostrils, LOL.
This, by the way, might qualify as abuse:
View Image
A 1.25" hole saw going through ~ 2' of white oak. ;-)
I will keep you posted, hopefully happily, as to how this is resolved. Thanks for your comments, contacts, and suggestions.
One more suggestion as how not to break your arms.
Use an impac wrench and then you could up the hole to say 6" and let your 8yo daughter safely drill the hole. 2" holes would be a piece of cake. Much faster too.
I routinely drill holes in log homes. Some as large as 18" in dia and others as deep as 10 or 12 feet.
Who ever invented work didn't know how to fish....
IMERC, good point (about abuse), LOL, but notice I didn't say who or what was being abused. ;-) I even have an electric impact wrench, I wouldn't have had to grind the end of a perfectly good 3/8" extension so that I chould chuck it. But then what would I do with Big Bertha? Some folks pay big bucks to go to excercise gyms, I just have to haul her out when I need a work out.
I'll give Bill a call tomorrow at the 800 number. Thanks for your interest and support, I appreciate it.
On a Saturday... Good luck. LOL
Who ever invented work didn't know how to fish....
Hmmmmm, near as I can tell it's Friday... Wait a minute, let me check. Yup, the trash barrels are out, that confirms today is Friday. ;-)
Called for conformation....
You're right.
I wonder how I do that?
Who ever invented work didn't know how to fish....
Well, no Bill. Seemingly totally unknown to the rep with whom I spoke. He transferred me to the Regional Manager, Bob Stearn (I think, I didn't quite catch the last name.) who's out of the office for the weekend.
Thanks again for your interest, I'll keep you posted.
As I understand it, Bill was doing such a note worthy job that hes was suppose to be bumpeded up. That may have happened.
Searching for 2 other POCs but no luck.
Garb got bumped up several notches. Don't know who his replacement is. Got a feeling that it would be a bit crass to knock on his door.
Who ever invented work didn't know how to fish....
Ed,
I just discovered a web site that supplies tool parts to most popular brand woodworking tools. I had a switch go bad on a brand-name router. This site has the schematics on-line so you can identify the part and order direct. You can even download a PDF file of the schematic. As it turned out I was able to fix my bad switch but poking around the site I found you can search by manufacturer and/or by tool type. It appears to have the Milwaukee drill motor in question (0222) as well as dozens of others. Give it a try.
Dean
I guess I could have included the URL for the site… Here it is:
http://www.toolpartsdirect.com/cgi-bin/schematic.cgi/milwaukee/0222_404-7313
Dean
my makita catalog actually shows a photo of someone using one of their bigger drills to mix mud. you wouldn't think that milwaukee believes their units aren't up to anything a makita can handle, would you? i'm not picking sides here- both companies get plenty of my money.
m
Well I just heard from Bob, the regional manager for Milwaukee. To make a long conversation short, "Nope, I can't warranty it." Seems that there are undisclosed time limits to a warranty with no defined time limits.
So, as was said, use em hard and put them away wet.
oh well, you gave it a shot. sounds like, all things considered, you did get your money's worth out of it before it died. (but it would have been nice to get it fixed free or cheap) i suppose in this day and age it's nice to have a company warranty stuff- especially stuff that's likely to get used/abused as hard as industrial grade power tools- for as long as they do. try getting service on a friggin computer after your year or so is up- you'll know what i'm talking about. come to think of it, i've had some hellacious battles with "customer service" (there's an oxymoron for ya) getting these damm things fixed even under full warranty.
m
Hi Mitch,
This is slightly off topic but you mentioned dissatisfaction with your computer servicing. As a suggestion from someone who owns a small computer shop, buy local. Name brand computers are full of proprietary stuff that pretty much forces you to deal with the manufacturer - besides I've never seen one that ran as well as a custom built machine. If you get service on them they don't care about your data and you are likely to get your computer back with all your personal stuff simply gone. I can't speak for others but I do everything possible to stand behind the computers I sell - which includes taking a loss if I have to. For example, I sold a computer two weeks ago to a local company to be used in a network. The Opaserv virus showed up so I reloaded the machine twice and reinstalled it in the network at no charge to make them happy while trying to explain to them that the virus was active somewhere else in the network and that was the cause of the problems - none of the fix/patches worked. Yesterday they finally let me wipe and reload their other machine while keeping and protecting all their data and the problem went away, however I have about 10 hours labor in the project for which I charged $150 (1 reload for the other computer). What do you think Dell would have done? I can't compete with the big companies in price but they can't touch my service which is why I've been successful here for nearly 10 years and my business is growing. Not all local shops operate like I do so you have to check them out, but buying local should give you a great deal more peace of mind although initially it is a bit more expensive.
Ken
you make an excellent point, but like the vast majority of people, my computer needs are so basic and general/non-specific that we just naturally gravitate to the lowest cost provider with the big advertising budget. for surfing, email and running standard business and word processing software it would simply never occur to me to have a unit custom built.
what i would REALLY like to see from a software company is what i would call "windows extra basic". find out what probably 90% of all customers actually use in their systems- which is probably about 3-5%, at most, of all the happy crap loaded on their machines. ie- one screensaver & background screen, if you want more, buy a cdrom for it or download your own; i don't need a jillion ways to arrange/color/size/decorate my windows. the same for the game programs (although most folks would want to keep solitaire) and all the other junk i don't want or need and will never use, etc, etc, etc. i want a super stripped down version that will run really fast on the few programs i choose to have and even more importantly, will, or at least should, have far fewer glitches and be less susceptible to every cyber-std that comes along.
my $0.02
m
You can gut your Windows O/S or use Linux.
Who ever invented work didn't know how to fish....
For those following the original topic, please refer to the new Milwaukee Announcemnt thread. For those following the tangent, I can't agree more about using local sources. The best way to maintain our comunities is to do our business in them. This is not to say that I avoid Highland Hardware, or Lee Valley, etc, but that, whenever possible, I keep my money (what little I have, LOL) in the community.
Thanks to all for your comments, and yes I hear the one about the fan belt on the Buick. If I could have purchased a new shaft from Pro Tool, non of this would ever have come to light. My late VW 16-valve GTI (actually still going strong under new ownership) is now 17 years old, gone over 250,000 miles, but I replaced the timing belt a few times, the fan belts once or twice, but the radiator hoses, or clutch, never.
I am a strong believer in Milwaukee. They have always done me right. It's a company to have faith in.
Who ever invented work didn't know how to fish....
I almost wrote to Buick once to grouse about their obvious program of planned obscolecence when the original fan belt on my 1964 Buick Special dry rotted ( I think it was around 1981).
17 years out of a drill doesn't seem too bad to me.
Frank
Please stand by for a refreshing change in developments...
Now that's a tease, whats up?
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