Mini-pedestals — design and router bit
I need to make what could be called “miniature pedestals” for some cubes that hold signed baseballs. I envision a fairly simple “pad” about 1″ high with a recessed area for the cube to sit in, and a shaped edge, probably Roman Ogee. The cubes are about 4″x4″ I’ll be making singles, and also longer ones that would hold 3 or 4 cubes in one pedestal.
Seems like I’ll have to choose between (a) making it out of solid wood, and using a router bit to plane out the recess or (b) making the bottom/base from 1/4″ plywood and surrounding it with mitered trim. Any suggestions as to one over the other are welcome. The solid wood idea seems to me a possible time-saver.
Other question is: If I go the solid-wood route, do I just use a mortising bit to make the recess, or is there a “planer” bit I should use instead?
forestgirl — you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can’t take the forest out of the girl 😉
Another proud member of the “I Rocked With ToolDoc Club” …. :>)
Replies
Solid wood would have more 'class' in my opinion. However, if you use a router bit you will be having alot of fun squaring up those corners in the recess. If you are good with a chisel no problem, but if you are like me using a chisel... Well, I'd use round corners.
Sounds like something that should be tried on some old scrap wood with various router bits and see what you like best. You are making 1000 or so for the project? LOL..
Do you have a router table? I have used a large 'V' bit, a angled jig, and some stop blocks to finish the corners. Takes a bit to get the V bit depth of cut correct but is more accurate than me with a chisel! I just finish up the recess with a cabinet scraper.
By the way, if you have the time, it is sort of fun cutting something with combinations of routher bits and seeing what happens. Sometimes it even looks nice....
Have fun!
If you go with the solid wood, how much time and effort will it take to get the two end grain sides smooth enough for your standards? Maybe none, if you're happy with what comes off the router bit, but something to think about.
The end grain problem could definitely squelch that option. I plan on using Alder, because it can be finished in a variety of ways, is easy to work with and plentiful here in the Puget Sound. I've not done any end-grain shaping on Alder, so I'll find out soon whether or not it will yield good results.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
FG,
I'm not sure I've got the correct picture...but I won't let that stop me...lol. If your talking about a 4x4" hole in the middle of a board to hold a stand...I'd consider resawing the board, rip and cross cut one of boards to the dimensions you want for the cube and glue up...then apply your ogee edge.
"...but I won't let that stop me...." That's what I like about you, BG, you're bold and reckless, LOL!
Nope, it won't be a hole, just a squared recess for the cube to nest into. What I'll have to figure out is whether planing that recess out of a solid board, and squaring up the corners, will be more time-consuming (or significantly more expensive, probably not) than using a pieces of BB plywood and edging it with molding that sits up a little proud to provide the same type of recess. This assuming that the end-grain problem Uncle Dunc mentioned isn't too bad.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Gurl, are the 4"x4"x4" boxes Plexiglass?
Why not make the base a solid square ( say, 5x5" x 3/4",)
Then, make two square picture frames from store bought molding? The top mold (#1) frame would be 1/2" high and be centered and glued to the base and pre- sized to accept the cube.
The bottom mold (#2) frame should be 3/4" high and glued and
pre-sized to surround the base.
Make the two frames from the same type of mold but of different heights.
After all the frames are glued together, cut the square bases to fit snugly into the frames, then glue.
Stain and wipe and spray with a satin clear lacquer
Or, mix and match? I would cut and miter all the pieces first,
to identical size before glue up.
Stein.
Use the ball team's colors to apply to the frames (Or not!)
If I go to the base + molding approach, I'll make my own one-piece molding (I have lots of alder laying around) and put a groove in it for the plywood to snuggle into.
I just got back from a router-bit acquisition trip, so will be going out tonight to decide which method will work.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Way ta go Gurl... Alder (But wiser?)Jamie, when you glue up mitered frames, do you use those great little miter clamps (Stanley) ?They are inexpensive and handy for setting up boxes and other right angled enclosures. They are made of cast white metal and can be cut down to fit into smaller enclosures (with a bandsaw) They have little drop and turn handles (like C clamps)I make little 'Risers' from wood to elevate these clamps so the
drop handles can be rotated without bumping into the worktable top. They, (The clamps)have countersunk holes for that purpose. I have a bucket full of these handy clamps. Stein.
Edited 1/18/2005 9:39 pm ET by steinmetz
Stein, I've done several projects that involved mitered joints. I generally use a band clamp and my shop-made clamping jig. I'm pretty sure I don't want to mess around with mitering on this project unless I have to (for instance, if the pedestal is so big that solid wood wouldn't work, e.g., a basketball pedestal).forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Forest gurl, The corner miter clamps will handle any size.
You'll need four of them for a frame (Or, eight for a cube or box) I pick them up at fleas for peanuts.
Also C clamps, which I wire brush and oil. Must have one hundred! "Ya can't have nuf clamps, Eh!" (Old Canadian phrase )Stein.
Hi Jamie Have you considered making a narrow board with a routered profile along the edge on the show side and a rabate on the other side then cut it into lengths and mitre it into boxes.The cubes just sit in the rabate.Or has that been suggested already?
Hi Jako, thanks for the idea. For some reason, I want the pedestals to be solid. Don't really know why, but I do, LOL!
I've milled the wood for 6 of them tonight, and edge-routed one; as soon as NYPD Blue is over, I'll go out and try the plunge-bit to clear out the recess. I'm going to try this on the router table, using stops. Wish me luck! The good news is, the end-grain of the alder took the Roman Ogee profile very well. I think making these out of solid wood will be a very efficient process!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Forest Girl,
A solution to the recessed cube holder would be to rip, dado, and reglue the piece out of solid stock. Joint and thickness the board you want to work with. Down the center of the board, lay out the exact width that the recesses will be - like you would if laying out a mortise. Use your table saw to rip the board along the outside of the layout marks - keep track of the order in which the boards were cut. Once you have the center section free, set up your dado blade and cut the recessed to the desired depth - like oversized dentil molding. Once this is done, it is simply a matter of gluing up the previous ripped pieces, giving you square corners and fully matching grain.
If you want single cube holders, do the same procedure as above, and once the glue has dried, cross cut them to length.
If you have any questions, please feel free to ask!
Dan Kornfeld, Owner/President - Odyssey Wood Design, Inc.
Thanks, Dan, that's a great idea, especially if I do some much larger "pedestals." It will be my Plan B for the little ones. Hopefully, tomorrow I can post a little pic or two.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
I was just thinking (gets me in trouble)...
No matter, but are these for sale or just for yourself?
I was looking at some bandsaw boxes and I think that replacing the drawers with the baseball cubes would be really cool. Especially one for several balls. Maybe making the box in some sort of baseball theme could sell to the right folks.
Just me...
Will, that's Great idea! Yes, these will be for sale. I have a small (very, very small) sportscards and games shop here on Bainbridge Island, and I've finally gotten started on developing a line of display items. I'm hoping, if I can get efficient enough with them, to be able to sell through at least one of my distributors also.I will keep your idea in mind for sure. Gotta get the simple stuff going first, and maybe get back to my jersey display cases (I've made two by special request, but never did any production with them). We have many soccer, basketball and baseball players amongst the school kids, so I was also thinking about doing scroll sawn picture frames. There are several patters available for those.Thanks again!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Here's an idea that a neighbor and Cubs fanatic once asked me to draw out and make a prototype...carve a life sized baseball glove out of maple burl to house precious autographed baseballs. When I was done laughing, I told him no and walked away.
But maybe?
Hey Forestgirl,This is a bit off topic but, there is a sportscard shop directly across the street from my shop in Fremont. They might be interested in your pedestals. You should stop by for a visit and do some business on the side.Tom
Thanks for the tip, Tom. I'll certainly put them on my list of businesses to contact.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
As you are going the solid route ,do you have a drill press ?Consider cleaning them out with a forstner then rout them with a plunge bit using a guide collar and 1/4 ply template with locating flanges to fit the blank.Quick and dirty mass production!
Hi Jako. Yep, I have a drill press. I played with a 1/4" Forstner last night, but then tried another idea -- a 1/8" router bit chucked into a Dremel tool to do the outside permieter of the clearing. The rounded corner that's left by that bit is so small as to be insignificant.
The use of the Forstner is limited somewhat by the fact that it leaves a divot where the pilot point is. I was thinking about filing that off just to see what happens! If it would work without the pilot point, I could drill just the corners with it.
I haven't tried template routing yet, but the kit's in my router drawer. If the table-mounted approach is too time-consuming, I'll give it a try. I'm still working at getting a nice smooth surface on the bottom of the recessed area. Technique, I hope.
I like the "solid" idea best, but the jury's still out as to whether it can be done in a time-efficient way.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
If you cut the point from a forstner you will need to secure the work and ONLY use that bit in a drill press.It will be akin to using a saw tooth (forstner style not hole saw) freehand.With small diameters the thrust would be minimal but they can deliver a nasty gash.Cleaning with a drill will allow the router to only take light cuts which is good in end grain.Why are you so hung up on the smooth bottom <g> is the cube plexi?Once you get into template routing you will never look back one can make elegant firewood en-masse(don't ask how I know ;-)
Yep, that bit would be reserved for this project, and I would make a fixture for the drill press table that would hold and position the piece automatically -- clamp/drill, spin/clamp/drill, spin/clamp/drill, spin/clamp/drill, done.
I don't need to hog out the whole 3x3" surface -- the depth of "planing" is only 1/8" or so, so the fat plunging straight bit I have can do that in one pass, even with the small PC router I'm using.
Question: Would a regular straight bit, rather than a plunger, be more likely to provide a smooth surface?forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
GURRRL, Just use a 1/2" hinge cutting router bit (Carbide) and with the router's edge guide attached, rout in a clockwise direction with the edge guide following the outer edge of the square blank,take just 3/16"depth of cut at a time 'till you reach the required depth. You now have a square and radioused dado/groove.
Do likewase to all the bases THEN, locate the edge guide out from the router's base approximatly a tad less than 1/2" and rout the inner square in the same clockwise direction stopping when you reach the required depth. Now, you have only a small 'Island' left to remove at the center. This last cut can be done free hand if you maintain the same pressure as during the previous steps. ED.
I guess I missed the 1/8 depth for the recess. Now I would go with a 1/4" ply "window" template with locating strips on the underside and use a coller and straight cutting bit.The template would give you a wider support area equating to more stability and a smoother bottom(something the guys over in breaktime have been anxious to attain) <g> As for the plunge/ straight cutting bit issue most of my straight bits are freud and they work just fine in that application.The carbide projects and has a back relief at the bottom of the bit.
Ummmph! Hit a high frustration level last night, but still persisting on these. Just had to take a break. I've gotten to the point where I can get a pretty darned smooth bottom on the recess, though I'm tempted to get a Freud mortising bit to do the final passes as I think maybe the plunge bit just won't leave as good a surface.
I made a template of sorts, but it wasn't perfectly square or exactly the right size so have to make a new one. Turns out I don't have the colllars to do template routing with, so I'm putting this "template" on the router table and moving the stock, captured within the template, over the bit. That works for the single-recess specimens, but won't for doubles and triples. Have to spring for the collars I guess. Nice thing about that will be laying a long template with several holes over a long board and plunging away to make 10 or 12 at once, then crosscutting them out of the board.
The corner problem might be solved by drilling a 1/8" hole precisely in each corner. Precisely being the sticky part. That provides a curve that's not noticeable or bothersome. I tried the corner chisel approach, but it seems to tear out. Maybe technique needs improvement. Is the Porter Cable corner chisel (for hinge recesses) any better than the cheapie I bought?
Moving the stock over the bit on the router table is presenting some challenges, but I've promised myself I won't shorten any of my fingers, so safety is paramount.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Moving the stock over the bit on the router table is presenting some challenges, but I've promised myself I won't shorten any of my fingers, so safety is paramount.
Moving the stock over the bit on the router table is presenting some challenges, but I've promised myself I won't shorten any of my fingers, so safety is paramount.
I ARREE! I AGREE! I use a router table ALL the time and ALWAYS use a holddown block. I have used a router for years and still afraid of them bits!!!
SORRY in advance, but I forgot the name of the product... but just think of a sort of firm but not hard foam rubber sheet (auto store about 5 dollars??). What I got was about 2X2 feet, I cut up for various hold-downs I make for different projects. You could use some of that anti-skid mat they sell for routing and cut it up but does not seem to hold to well on the wood (in smaller sizes) because of the holes. I just use rubber cement to stick it to a wooden block (pine will do) sized for the project if those I have don't fit.. I have a hardwood grip that fits my hand and just screw it to my 'NEW anti-skid holddown'.. Yep screw will trash the bit if it hits but shouldent unless ya slip and bit hits your holdown. Bit about 20 or 30 bucks.. Fingers about??
Fits my hand means it covers my knuckles in case it slips off the wood.. A PRO never does that.. Do they? I have but not often.. Sometimes I even drill a hole in the wood for 'easier seein' down there' I'm old a sometimes has to get close to see!
I guess I'm sticking my nose in but if you are using a router table (assume a table of reasonable size) I hardly ever need a template. I usually use a template just for curves.. For a square or rectangle, I just clamp stop blocks (left and right of bit) to size. A sqare makes it easy because all you have to is rotate the stock. Rectangles require you to change the stop blocks.
If I require a really nice finish for the final cut (usually not needed but some wood is like me.. Stubborn). I test the wood first (My first few cuts to dept will tell) and if needed in a recess, I route to about 1/32 or less than the final depth.
Waiting for flack here from the 'REAL' woodworkers!!!! ..
If a cabinet scraper will not fit the recess, I use a nice SHARP chisel as a scraper. YEP, I hold it sort of vertical and scrape away.. It works! Biggest size that fits.. Yes you have to re-sharpen the chisel sometimes..
I made a shop made sanding disk for a router ONCE.. it flew apart! Lucky I had my good old hold-down in my hand.....
Sort of Joking and more serious...
Hi Will, yep, I made a holding-helper with coarse-grit sandpaper on the bottom. When I was really foolin' around last night, I also clamped a 1"-wide piece of oak over the top of the template, such that it covered the 7/32" bit. I'd have to slide my fingers underneath the oak guard to cut them.re: the use of a template, I made the first two samples using stop blocks, but this needs to be a high-production process, so I'm working on that part of it as I go. If (when!) I come up with something clever, I'll post pictures, LOL.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Gurl, if you find a metal scrap yard, on that island (or maybe a boat repair business,) ask for a flat hunk of boiler plate 3/4" or thicker. Before using your corner chisel, place the workpiece atop the metal block then give it a nice whack
The mass of the metal absorbs the shock of the 'whack, and dampens any bounce thatcan cause tear out After every couple of corners, hone the chisel with a flat 'Slip stone' or a diamond sharpener Ed. (Affectionatly)
Me again, I make all kinds of Quote, "Hand helpers"
from mouse pads.
Also, I punch out foam rubber
discs from them to glue to furniture legs
(Contact cement)The stuff can be cut with a sharp pair of scissors. Ed.
f_g,To get the 1/8" hole precisely in the corner, set up a fence and a stop block on a drill press (they were square cross-section, weren't they?)Cheers,eddie
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