Replies

1. 
   JohnWW | Feb 24, 2006 03:34am | #1

   Joe,

   I know this was directed to Darrell Peart, so my apologies to both you and Darrell for butting in, but I'd like to recommend a book that I found to be a revelation about technical details for furniture. 

   The book is "Solid-Wood Cabinet Construction" by Franz Karg.  Karg was the director of a Bavarian technical school for cabinetmakers and the book shows the work of students and alumni.  There are 70 pieces shown, all of them cabinets.

   There is no useful text but the pieces are beautifully photographed, almost always including close up photos of construction details.  These, combined with clear dimensioned drawings of each piece should give you enough information to duplicate the all wood drawer tracks and other beautiful details. 

   If I were going to suggest a single book this would be the one, and it may change your whole perspective on what is possible in woodworking.  I don't know if it still available from Taunton Press, but a web search should turn up a used copy.  There was a similar earlier book also by Karg, but it isn't nearly as good.

   John White

   
   

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   Edited 2/24/2006 4:49 pm ET by JohnWW

1. 
   JoeK | Feb 24, 2006 04:16pm | #3

   Thank you, that is the input I am looking for, I will do a search for the book.

   Joe

2. 
   furnituremaker | Feb 24, 2006 05:25am | #2

   Hi Joe,

   I agree - there's not a lot of good information out there on working with solid wood drawers and runners. I’m glad John helped us out on this one – the book he mentions sounds like a good resource on the subject.

   I use side supported wooden runners (dadoed drawer side). I struggled with perfecting the process at first – but am quite comfortable with wooden runners now.  We don’t have the  space here to explain the workings of wooden runners in detail, but I would be glad to help you through it as questions or problems arise.

   A classic book for furniture making in general is “ Encyclopedia of Furniture Making” by Earnest Joyce. It really doesn’t get into the minute details but gives you enough information to get started. I have relied on it many times over the years and it has a very short section on solid wood drawers and runners that might be of help.

   Keep me posted on how you are doing.

   Darrell

    

    

    

    

1. 
   JoeK | Feb 24, 2006 04:22pm | #4

   Thanks for the imput

   Joe

    

2. 
   JoeK | Feb 28, 2006 10:19pm | #5

   Darrell:

   Thanks again for your input.

   Questions:

   What is the preferred method to install the side slide within the carcass, should it be rounted in and then only be allowed to be adjusted from front to back,  should it ride in a groove in the leg, so that it can be adjusted up or down, or should I keep my fingers crossed, measure within as close a tolerance as possible and fix it permanently. With the frame and webs with dust panel having to be built first, their is not much room if any for adjustment later and this concerns me. No matter what method I think about, after the cabinet is built, I don't have much room for adjustment  My preference right now is to mortise and tennon this slide and hope I get it right, then I guess I could use a small hand plan, reaching into the drawer opening if I am heavy.

   What tolerances should I be looking for, 1/64 or closer, so that the drawer and slide work the first time, (well, close to the first time), even that is tight for wood.

    Your thoughts:

    

   Ps, what is your preference for finishing, arts and crafts, fuming, staining, dye, final coat oil?

1. 
   furnituremaker | Mar 01, 2006 06:29am | #6

   Hi Joe,

   The tolerances are very close to make a wooden (side slide) drawer to perform  its best. You can get away with drawers that fit looser but it just doesn’t have the same feel.

    My method depends on being able to mount the slide with several screws – are you able to do this or do you have a solid wood panel (and wood movement) to deal with.

   <!----><!----> <!---->

   I start by milling the slides to very close tolerance – under size by about 10 thousands  (light 1/64”) of an inch in both thickness and width. 

   I pre-drill for 4-5 countersunk screws in the slide. Do not measure when doing this. It is best to have the holes slightly random (I will explain later).

   Sand both the spacer and the dado( in the drawer side) to 180 - grit (or thereabouts) and wax both with common paraffin wax.

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   Make a spacer that registers the position of the slide off the dust panel below the drawer. Set the slide on top of the spacer and then fix it firmly in place with wedges coming down from the dust panel above. Run only two screws in the slide. Do the same to the slide on the other side.

   <!----> <!---->

   Check for a fit. If it just a little tight use a cabinet scraper.  If it is slightly loose from side to side shim the slide out. If you need to reposition it and re-size the spacer – go through the steps again but trade sides with the slides (the random holes will line up differently on the other side).

   <!----> <!---->

   . When the drawer hangs at a particular spot– pull the drawer and scrape down the wear marks on the runner.

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   With practice you will get a feel for working with wooden runners. I hope I was of some help. Let me know if this makes sense and keep me informed on how it goes.

   <!----> <!---->

   <!----> <!---->

   On the finish:  I am not an expert in finishing but I have had some experience in A&C and G&G finishes. Good results can be obtained by fuming, but the industrial grade ammonia used in fuming is pretty dangerous stuff. I prefer to use an aniline dye (water base). You might try the “Fumed Oak” from Wood Finish Supply.  For a top coat I  like General finishes Arm R Seal satin.

   <!----> <!---->

     

1. 
   JoeK | Mar 01, 2006 04:36pm | #7

   Hope its not a bother, but I am enjoying this discussion.

   I do have panels on the side, so I can not attach screws other than at the ends of the slide, also, I have an intermdiate drawer that is also only separated by 3/4" from the next drawer, that would appear to not allow the spacer and wedge to be installed for testing the fit on that slide, or am I seeing this incorrectly.

   I could build the drawer separations, (side to side) last, but it seems that these separations should be part of the orignal cabinet contruction, which them eliminate room for the wedge.

   Joe

    

    

    

1. 
   furnituremaker | Mar 02, 2006 05:54am | #8

   Joe,

    Side hung would not be your best choice. Have you seen the article by Alan Marks in  the winter 1977 issue of  FWW . The article is titled "Drawer Bottoms " . Alan goes into 6 variations of drawer construction and a method for hanging each. One of these  should work for your situation.

    An aside: I met Alan Marks a couple of years ago when researching my book He also wrote that really great  FWW articel on Greene and Greene furniture in 1978.

   Let me know if the article helps - I think you can access past FWW articels from this site.

   Darrell

2. 
   PCM | Apr 07, 2006 03:26pm | #10

   Darrell,

   What is the title of your book, and where can I buy it?

   I e-mailed you an inquiry a few days ago, but with my computer skills it probably ended up on the moon.

   Thanks!

   Peter 

3. 
   furnituremaker | Apr 07, 2006 11:02pm | #11

   Hi Peter,

   The name of my book is "Greene & Geeene: Design Elements for the Workshop"

   You can buy it at my website (http://www.furnituremaker.com) or several web based booksellers.  It should  be available at some retail outlets as well.

   I am sorry your email did not get through. The problem  may have been at my end. My virus protection has been sorting some of my good email into the junk folder.

   thanks,

   Darrell

    

4. 
   PCM | Apr 08, 2006 04:03pm | #12

   Darrell,

   Thanks!

   Peter

3. 
   JohnWW | Mar 23, 2006 12:09am | #9

   Joe,

   I was reading an Australian woodworking magazine over the weekend and an article had a sidebar about making wood extension slides for drawers.  If you are interested, send me your address and I'll send you a copy of the page.

   John White