My shop is 17’x30′ and I am seriously debating the merits of having a miter saw/chop saw in there. The end walls are curved (the shop is in a quonset style barn), so space along the straight walls is at a premium, and I’m just not certain the miter saw earns its keep. I notice that Becksvoort, and Tessolin don’t regularly use miter saws for furniture making, but it seems that many other “makers” and folks on YouTube have a designated miter saw station. I have a great table saw and a nice Incra 1000HD and plan to build a crosscut sled for cutting stock to length. What are your thoughts on having a miter saw for a furniture shop? I’d keep one around for doing trim and stuff in the house, but I’m not sure I need a Bosch Glide that I don’t want to lug into the house taking up room in my shop. Thank you for your thoughts and experiences!
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Replies
I left the miter saw behind a couple of decades ago. there are too many better ways to make the cuts I would use one for. I do not do house trim work. I rarely work with a lot of long thin stock. I don't do crown molding. My hat is off to those that do; you guys are amazing.
The footprint to make a miter saw (compound, sliding or whatever) quickly and easily usable in my workflow takes much more real estate than it is worth to me. That amount of room can be used for multiple other machines and tasks.
For rough cutoff work I use a jigsaw, for accurate work I use a tablesaw or hand tools. Your mileage WILL vary based on how much room you have, what you are doing and how much of it you do.
Sorry, no cut and dry answer on this perennial question ;-)
Your response is pretty much what I have in my head. With my table saw, I feel pretty confident I'll be able to do anything I need to as far as squaring off ends of boards. I would rather have room for my mortiser, bandsaw, router table, and two work benches. I think the slider is going to find a new home.
I came from the construction world... As I moved into finer work, I've kept my miter saw. When I built my new shop, I built my tool/fastener and sandpaper storage around a miter saw station.
A lot of the time, if I am looking for accurately square, quickly, I use the table saw and a sled. If I am looking to cut a million pieces the same size, I go to the miter saw. Or, if I am looking to chop something close to size, that I know I will shoot, I go to the miter saw.
The miter saw is quicker for breaking down long boards into more manageable sizes, or to make those first rough size cuts. Somedays it's just quicker than pulling down the sled (which hangs on the wall a couple of steps away from the table saw).
I have had the same DeWalt 8 1/2" sliding miter saw for decades. It still cuts square and perpendicular rather accurately.
It has taken up a lot of geography in my shop. Because it's a slider, I had to go pretty deep for my lower section. But, I've also set it high so I don't have to bend over to see my cuts. This has given me nice deep drawers for tool storage... I still have empty space for drawers to go into and have most of my tools organized quite neatly.
Is the miter saw a shop requirement? Nah.... But, being as it's been part of my workflow for 25+ years, it just makes sense. If I was starting from scratch, I doubt I would put a lot of emphasis on buying one.... I'd probably pick a jointer first.
hEy man
thanks for sharing your experience
means a lot
I can't imagine not having a quality miter saw, but I guess it really depends on how you work and what you build. Longer stock less than 12" wide is much easier to handle than on a tablesaw sled combination. It is also quicker to use than getting my sled off the wall and set up on the tablesaw. The key, like most tools, is to buy quality and take the time to dial in the settings to insure accuracy. I personally have the Bosch and could not be happier, but in tight quarters Bosch, Makita and Festool, for our millionaires, and maybe others offer designs that minimize the footprint the saw requires. FW and YouTube offer many ideas for mobile workstations with folding extension wings or flip tops that make it easy to find 4-5 SF. Of floor space for such a convenient tool IMO.
I wouldn't be without my miter saw. I crosscut almost nothing on my table saw. The only "crosscuts" I do on the TS are dados and tenons.
In a normal cabinet making workflow, the wood from the kiln hits the crosscut first to trim the ends and cut the lengths Required for the job while optimizing from a plank in order to minimize waste. It’s hard to beat a radial arm saw or a miter saw to do that job especially with long heavy board. It also is an asset while squaring up Long panels , my current RAS has a 24 inches stroke and makes it easier on large panels to get a clean square cut. It becomes a matter of moving the wood across the blade VS moving the blade across the wood, the older you get the more you prefer the later.
Everyone’s method of work can be different, John never used a sled, others do all the finish xcuts with a sled.
Personally I like to be able to cut lumber to dimension in one step. With your space considerations you might consider a 12” non slider. I got by for years with one.
But now I have a Bosch axial glide. It is quite a beast and I wouldn’t consider it a portable saw, but I don’t know your strength. For a recent trim job, I bought a Metabo (previously Hitachi) non slider, which is very light, and for the money a good saw something to look into.
Thank you for all of your experiences and suggestions. I do actually have a Bosch Glide 12" that is currently sitting on a WorkMate portable bench. I think I'll keep it and build a folding table for it to set on. I also have a 12" Dewalt slider which I took out of the shop and am planning on selling because it stuck out away from the wall so far. The Bosch weighs a ton, but I can lift and carry it around right now (I'm in my early 30s).
The frustrating thing about the saw (both the Dewalt and the Bosch) is that I'll have it squared up for a cross cut, and then on a different piece of wood...it won't be square again. I'm sure it's technique etc. but it is frustrating.
I have 2 miter saws. One's a simple dual bevel I've had for years. Used it to cut 2x2 ebony and maple for my 1st chess board. Still use it when I need small pieces.
My second is a 10' dual bevel saw. A flood destroyed my tablesaw and I chose to not replace it, especially since the miter was a few hundred bucks cheaper.
Gulfstar, you brought out my latent 'tool envy.' I'd kill for a radial arm saw. Regardless, I like my miter because I make a lot of compound cuts in my work (45x30, etc) and square up ends for game boards & end tables.
Mikaol
A picture is worth a thousand words ?
Aleyoung86
If you own a Bosch Axial Glide and it's not giving you excellent results I would go through the set up and get it dialed in. Mine is spot on time after time and I don't say that lightly as I am a precision freak.
A picture is worth a thousad pounds too, from the look of it.
I am in a 10' x 16' shop and the miter saw (Hitachi) with stand had to go. I have a manual miter box now that can stay on a shelf. I am moving toward hand tool woodworking and if I can also remove my DW735 and 6" jointer I may be even better space wise. I also don't miss the dust and noise that a miter saw puts out. If I had the space in a much larger shop I would bring it back in.....probably.
esch5995, do you mean the set up as described in the Bosch manual? Thanks.
I have the Bosch glide saw, and put it on an extension table to each side of the saw for longer fence and stops for easy, quick cuts. If super precise is needed, I double measure. It is usually dead on. Given I have a long fence on each side, it is much easier to see when a board is bowed in some way, either in or out against the table, and this may be just after jointing it! The bow can throw cuts off, so knowing it is there allows you to make corrective action or just live with it. I would not be without my miter saw as having to change table saw settings can make matters worse. I just ordered the new Woodpeckers table saw stop guides.....looking forward to see if that can help the accuracy of my work.
Aleyoung86
Yes, just carefully go through and dial in all the possible settings. Make sure you have a truly square reference square first. I find many big box stores and other inexpensive squares anything but. If you have added auxiliary fences use a known long straight edge to insure these are in proper alignment the same goes for any auxiliary tables. Take your time and don't settle for close enough and you can dial this saw in to be extremely accurate cut after cut.
My shop is about the same size as your shop. I moved my chop saw into the shop about 6 months ago and use it to break down long and heavy rough lumber into shorter sections before dimensioning the stock on the jointer and planer. I don't use the chop saw for precise cuts. I set up a shop vac that comes on with the saw to collect most of the sawdust. The chop saw is set up in the area of the jointer and planer. I like it.
I was told years ago by a very accomplished builder- cabinetmaker to remember "There's a tool for every job and you just need to figure out what works and what doesn't". I have a Bosch slider set up in my cabinet shop and as another gentleman said it is great for cutting equal length pieces from rough length stock. The miters are ok but not cabinet quality. I have a very precise stop gauge for exact repeat cuts. For really exact miters that are a MUST HAVE for picture frames etc. I'll either sweeten them with a TS cross cut jig or (really the best) my old Lion trimmer set up with stop gauges. This works well in the shop but is unwieldy and time consuming on a jobsite trimming a hole house full of windows and doors. I used to sweeten the miters with a block plane which works but takes time and is a PITA so I decided to bite the bullet and buy a Festool Kapex for the jobsite. Once you own one you'll see where all the money goes. Dual laser etc. etc. worth every dime. I only use it for trim. The blades are a fortune but I tried a couple of different after market ones and if your looking for PRECISE miters there's enough blade wobble to them to throw the miters off that tiny amount that will frustrate the heck out of you with mitered casing etc. We pre assemble the mitered casing with a Logan picture framer's under pinner that I modified to work with long pieces of stock. We make the initial joint with CA glue and underpin it immediately and you have an instant rock solid joint and a casing frame you can apply in one piece. No more shimming and block planning and the joints are perfect but they need to be precise. I know this a long winded comment but just an example of "a tool for every job".
Thank you for your responses! Your experience and advice is appreciated. esch5995, I have it pretty much set up using an Incra square and a Lee Valley square. The stupid thing is plywood will be square off the saw, then I'll cut solid wood and it will be slightly out of square. I must be adding body english in there somewhere, though the saw seems really stable.
Many good points made from all angles. I have a Delta Cruzer 12" and love it. If you want to add it to your shop, I recommend it. It will slide and cut up to 18" boards, if you move the fence and support it. Practically, however, I have never cut more than a 12" board. The shadow-line leaves lasers in the dust and doesn't require calibration or offsetting. I guess it depends on what you are building. For long boards, I'll take the miter saw over a cross-cut sled. On the plus side, if you decide to ever cut trim, 2x4s, etc., you are all set; buy longer stock and save some money.
Oh and it doesn't need any clearance behind it. Mine is up against the wall.
@McFrisch, How long have you had the Cruzer? How is dust collection, and do you think you've seen play in the "robot arms" develop over time? I'm thinking of an upgrade.
Aleyoung86
Is it possible the problem rests with your blade? If you can cut plywood perfectly square it should be the same for all wood as far as the saw setup goes, but hardwoods will definitely provide more resistance and could cause blade deflection if A. The blade is dull and/or B. The blade is too thin. I personally never use thin kerf blades I've seen then deflect and wobble too much for my taste. I use a Forrest Chopmaster but Freud also makes good blades for a lot less although I don't like their Diablo line, unless I'm cutting 2"x 4"s which is all they are good for imo. Also make sure the blade is optimized for a Miter saw with the proper hook and rake.
@MJ I have had it for a little over a month(model 26-2251). The dust collection bag collects a small amount, but attaching even a shop vac is a vast improvement. As with any miter saw, you never get 100% collection. I don't have a box built around it, but when I hook up my dust deputy to it, there is only a small amount on that flies out. I used a fernco reducer to connect a 2.5" hose from the cyclone to the dust port. In slide mode if you start with the blade pulled forward and push back to cut, more of the sawdust heads to the chute. As far as play, I don't see much unless you really want to try and deflect it. The movement is extremely smooth, you can slide it with 1 finger. A nice feature is that there is a slide lock that allows you to use it as a chop saw instead of a slider, so accurate cuts on small to medium size stock is easy to achieve. I can't imagine ever going back to a laser guide. Stock blade is nice 60 tooth all purpose.
A word of advice: buy this at Menards vs. Lowes, if you can. Menards sells it for $499 with a $54 rebate, whereas Lowes sells it for $649. Save $200! I attached a photo of it on my small bench (22" deep bench top.) This was before I added the dust collector hose.
mcfish. i found a fellow on you tube, who came up with a way to wrap some heavier plastic (his choice was kitchen cabinet liner), and he wrapped it around the 'chute, and up a bit, kind of wrapping the back portion of the blade. i used one screw that i could reuse, and then some heavy duty tape, and used the fernco rubber reducer to go from saw to vac. this works great ! i tried with just vac and fernco. results were hugely improved with plastic sheathing. its been on a few months, and still has not fallen off. i started large, and just trimmed down so there were no issues. havent used it on compound cuts though.
It really depends on individual needs, what might work for one person, doesn't mean it's the best option for another. If you only plan to use the tool once a year when you might need it for a quick job, then I'm sure a cheap one would be just enough, but if it's a tool you depend on, I see no reason not to invest in said tool. I just needed a new miter saw for some big project I decided to o during the lockdown and I think I must have days on end looking on https://toolsngoods.com/best-12-inch-miter-saw/ to find exactly what would best fit my needs. I got a more expensive saw, because a cheaper one that might need to be replaced 3 times would end up actually costing more.
I have both a cheap miter saw and a 10" old ,like from the 50's, Delta Red Star. I use the cheap chop saw for home and construction projects, works great. I don't worry about it cutting an 'exact' 45 window trim because I have never seen one in my house. I use the RAS for stock break down. Anything that requires extreme accuracy goes to a special TS sled. OR my vintage miter trimmer.
In your position I'd do what you are doing - you will get great results from the table saw.
Personally, I use both.
They have different purposes - the mitre saw earns it's keep for me cutting big timbers to size quickly. I use a lot of 2 x 6 6m pieces for fences. I also use it for aluminum and plastic, which I would not cut on the TS. It's king for mouldings!
Pretty much all rough timber cuts start there, but I'd just use a circ saw if I didn't have one.
I made a cool workstation for my mitre saw (it’s a Makita and I love it) that allows me to store lots of stuff. Where it is unique is that it has a large space in the center so the mitre saw can be moved into the bottom section and a plywood board can be slid into the top to make a large flat work surface on the top, making it a more multipurpose area of my tiny shop if need be. I build fine furniture and find my mitre saw does earn it’s space and gets used regularly for breaking down long material. It’s the set up that counts and you’ll get that worked out.
My first real shop tool was a radial arm saw, then a compound mitre saw. It still is my go-to saw for cross cutting, I almost never cross cut on the table saw. I allowed a full 8’ to the left of my mitre saw blade so I can take the end off an 8’ board. My shop layout does not allow me to do that on the table saw.
From a safety perspective the mitre saw won’t throw anything at you because the blade is turning away from you, unlike a table saw.
Additionally, with a little effort you can capture dust easier on a mitre saw.
I keep a 10" chopsaw hanging on the wall and pull it down when I need it. My shop is too small for a dedicated station. When I use it it is messy, but that is not all that often, so the trade-off works for me.
I use the miter saw to cut boards to rough length prior to milling. It's also great to quickly cut various pieces for home projects that aren't "fine furniture". I made a zero clearance insert for mine which reduces chip-out. For my fine furniture I use the tablesaw for final cross-cutting.
I have 2 10in miter saws and a ras. The ras is buried, and more of a storage cabinet than anything, the miter saws sit on a shelf. I tend to use my table saw. Really long stuff I like to rough cut with a miter saw but I can grab one off a shelf to break down a load of lumber.
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