Sorry for the naive question. But I’m curious about cutting miters on a nice table saw gauge vs. cutting them on a miter saw.
I need to cut some plastic angle with miters at the ends in order to join some plastic panels together. I can’t clean up the miters with a plane or anything so I need the cut to be accurate and clean. I’ll attach a picture of this.
I will be cutting mosly 4′ lengths, but also need to cut some up to 8′. I assume this will make the miter saw a better choice, but I want to make sure the cut on a table saw is not cleaner or more accurate somehow.
I’m willing to invest in either a nice miter gauge or saw, so any specific recommendations are appreciated.
Here is a picture of the type of joint I need to make. The PVC angle will be visible so I’d like it to be nice and clean.
Replies
If you have a good miter saw it is easier to consistantly make accurate crosscuts. The tablesaw can make just as accurate miters but it is a lot more difficult be consistant about it. Holding, or clamping, a 4 foot board (or plastic angle) to a miter gauge then pushing it across the table is prone to mistakes. Using a sled helps, but is still not all that great. So IMHO the mitersaw or Radial Arm Saw is the better machine. Sometimes you will not have a choice due to the size of the cut and have to use the Table Saw.
Hope this helps,
Mike
Believe or not, I clean-up plastic w/ my LN low angle block plane. Sharpen to atom splitting duty, set the mouth to a few microns and back up the cut with a 45* shooting board that backs up the material. I have planed UHMWPE, Plexiglass, Lexan and ABS. I might even try aluminum if the need arises.
I have a high-end mitre gauge (24" Woodhaven Fast Track), but I think I get more repeatable & accurate cuts with my homemade TS sled. On the opposite side of the shop sits my Makita LS1212 SCMS with a 12" 100t FS tools blade. I have 6' tables right and left of the slider. It gets 99% of my crosscut and mitre work.
If your going to cut a lot of plastic FS Tools among others make blades for that.
John O'Connell - JKO Handcrafted Woodworking
The more things change ...
We trained hard, but it seemed that every time we were beginning to form up into teams, we would be reorganized. I was to learn later in life that we tend to meet any new situation by reorganizing; and a wonderful method it can be for creating the illusion of progress while producing confusion, inefficiency, and demoralization.
Petronious Arbiter, 210 BC
Hi, CJ. I would vote for a very well-tuned miter saw, and clamp down your stock so it's stock-still (so to speak ;-) You should use a zero-clearance plate in your saw (or make a sub-base), a backer to provide zero-clearance on the exit, and a saw blade that's has the proper configuration for cutting plastic.
There a Diablo blade at Home Depot that was originally developed for plastic and non-ferrous metals. Click here for info from Charles-from-Freud. I bought the 12" version, but I suspect they stock a 10" also. [Traded it back in on his suggestion, since I'm cutting exclusively wood]
Is the stock you're cutting in an "L" shape, or is it flat?
I just made a jig that works great for cutting fine molding on a big miter saw. Post some info about the dimensions of your stock, and I'll show you what I mean. Gotta feed the hubby right now -- will be back after dinner.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
The PVC angle is 1"x1" and 1/8" thick. It is L shaped.This is not the exact product I'll be using, but shows a closeup of a similar product.http://www.usplastic.com/images/products/sheet/45056p.jpgI already have a source for PVC blades.I am interested in hearing about your jig.Any advice on a good miter saw? I used to own a Craftsman and it was very hard to keep adjusted. I don't need a lot of cross cut capacity, obviously, but might as well get it if it does not come at the expense of accuracy. I will use it for other projects as well.
I bought the Bosch 12" CMS last year and I absolutely love it. It is hefty and accurate and holds its settings! The extension stock supports were very reasonably priced, and may even be included in the newest model, I don't know. I did alot of research before making the purchase, and I don't think I could be happier.
Actually for L-shaped stock, it's super-easy. Clamp a 3"x3" board to the fence of your miter saw, and lay the stock on the edge (wrapped around the corner) and cut it. Just don't cut very far into the board after you get past the plastic.
If you want to, you could rout a rabbeted edge into the top edge of the board to nest the horizontal part of the L in. Clamp the stock if at all possible. You may need to let the saw blade stop spinning before raising it back out of the board to ensure a super-clean cut.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
I like the idea of your jig. Since I'll be cutting a lot of this stuff I may have a thick board at the base as well to sort of act as a height indicator. When the blade just enters that, release the trigger and let the blade stop.I'm assuming I should avoid sliders? To me that seems like another degree of complexity I don't need since I only need accurate 45* cuts and 90* cuts.One the same note, is there any merit in my considering just a basic 8" chop saw (no compound adjustment) for my plastic cutting? Then I could save up for a 12" slider for the hobbyist wood working I'd like to take up again.I don't know how well a basic 8" chop saw would hold it's adjustments. I just remember my old 10" Craftsman CMS which was really, really bad. The compound adjustment would not hold so I always ended up with a slight bevel. That's why I'm leaning towards a saw with as few moving parts as possible for my plastic cutting. I'll be cutting a lot of this stuff so I don't mind investing in a dedicated saw.Thanks for your input.
"When the blade just enters that, release the trigger and let the blade stop." Good plan.
"...is there any merit in my considering just a basic 8" chop saw?" Mmmmm, I'd say no. I owned one 8-1/4" saw and it was near-worthless for anything but 2x4's and firewood. IMHO, they just don't put enough quality into those little tiny saws, figuring nobody who really notices would buy them, I guess, and it was so da**d small! I'd say this: If you can afford the Makita slider as recommended above, go for it (I'd have one if I had the $$!). If not, get yourself a good 12" saw. I can't believe how often I use my CMS now that I have a good one! It's so much safer for cutting long stock than a tablesaw is. And a 12" vs. a 10" is a big different in overall capacity (vertical and horizonal).
"I'm leaning towards a saw with as few moving parts as possible." Amen. If you were to get a slider, make sure it's top-notch!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Miter saw, especially with the lengths your using. You'd have about six feet of stock hanging off in space trying to twist your miter cut with the table saw and those eight foot lengths. The miter saw supports the stock better.
Don't discount sliders, I have the Makita 10" slider, and like one of the other responders, it gets 99% of my mitre work. It has never achieved anything less then perfection, unless the dufass pulling the trigger does something dumb.
miter saw best, blade must have plenty of teeth-80 per in, for a good clean cut
make sure blade is sharp and clean, i use oven cleaner, just spray blade a few times
and clean with rag, use glovesto protect hands
"i use oven cleaner, just spray blade a few times and clean with rag, use glovesto protect hands" The times, they are achangin' nail. Oven cleaner is very passe in my book. Upon recommendation by Charles (our Freud board member) I tossed the caustic oven cleaner. Chose Simple Green for the task and never looked back. It clean great, much less hassle, no fears, no gloves. And, my blades get cleaned much more often.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Thanks Knoks over here we have not heard of green in that context, maybe we are living a little behind the times, We are more familar with the orange and green so a product could not be sold with that name. It would ofend-ofend-ofend.
You can bring a horse to the well, but you can't make him drink. bye
"over here we have not heard of green in that context" Hey, nail, where's "over here"?? forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Re: CMS vs. SCMS
There have been a gazillion threads about this issue around Knots and Breaktime.
From my reading, the CMS saws have a slight edge when it comes to accuracy. This is a logical conclusion, I think, because there are fewer moving parts/adjustments. Moreover, these saws are somewhere around half the cost of their SCMS cousins.
Personally, I think the SCMS can be just as accurate, but you have to be willing to do a little more fiddling to keep them cutting true. For this effort, you get a saw that has a larger cross cut capacity -- which is extremely useful.
Also, in the accuracy wars, the perception is that generally, the 10" saws are better than the 12" because of blade deflection.
So if you are just looking for a saw to cut the PVC stuff you mentioned, a CMS will do the job. However, if the greater cross cut capacity is important to you, and if you don't mind a little fiddling now and then, and you have the extra $$, the SCMS would be a nice all-purpose saw.
There must be a 10-15 different brands available these days, but the best selling saws with the highest satisfaction ratings seem to be Makita and Hitachi, with Bosch not far behind. Again, this is based solely on my reading of comments around here.
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
Good Miter SAW! Do NOT believe the others!
before springing $300 to $600 for a cms and another $100 for a blade i would try to sneak up on accuracy. make a rough cut with whatever you got and try the hand plane with a shooting board as mentioned above or make a jig to clamp on the end of the plastic to support your router and trim the end of the workpiece true bob wearing style.
Edited 8/28/2005 6:02 pm ET by alimanyani
I've never cared for sliding miter saws. The slide mechanism adds a bit extra slop in the cut. I use a 12" DeWalt compound saw. I know its not your immediate need, but if you ever anticipate cutting crown molding then you need nothing smaller than a 12" compound saw. With a 12" saw you can cut crown sitting at the proper angle in the saw--the only way I know to cut a perfect miter at 44 1/4 degrees or other real world dimensions.Jim Eddy
[URL=http://www.jameseddywoodworks.com]James Eddy Woodworks[/URL]
Get the Makita slider, you will not have slop. The 10" slider is as close to a perfect tool as humans can possibly get.
Steve
I don't know what kind of blade your using to cut your plastic but Forrest has a blade called a No-Melt for the tabe saw
No-Melt Sawblades
FOR CUTTING SHEET PLASTIC WITHOUT CHIPPING OR MELTING
* The NO-MELT carbide-tipped saw blade is especially designed for cutting single or multiple stacked sheets of plastic without chipping or melting these materials
* The NO-MELT is particularly suitable for acrylics, delrins, ABS (Cycolac), styrenes, PVS, and both high and low-melt nylons.
* Specially engineered side clearances on the carbide teeth significantly reduce and in many cases, totally eliminate any formation of melted burrs or buildup of residue on cross-sawn sections of plastic materials.
* DOUBLE-HARD, 40% stronger C-4 Carbide yields 50% to 300% Longer Life Between Sharpenings • Reduced Yearly Sharpening Costs • Less Machine Downtime • Improved Labor Efficiency • Fewer Blades Required.
* The large number of carbide teeth with a special modified triple-chip-grind (#11 tooth style) allows fast feeding of brittle acrylics with no chipping.Thought I would throw that in.Rick
I don't think I can add to what others have contributed as far as methods to accomplish the task.
The good news is that there are many good saws in both the CMS and SCMS categories. Hitachi is supposedly bombproof, Makita mimicked the original Hitachi's but added a degree of finesse. My personal fav is my DeWalt 12"... as long as I don't have to move it. I've got a forrest 80t in it and the cuts it produces are like glass. It takes a little bit to re-tune when I do move it (away from its dedicated miter station) but that isn't often. And it is very accurate... if expensive (Saw 550+Blade 120).
You'll find it to be one of the favorites of the folks over at Breaktime love the Hitachi & Makita for weight and job site work, where the DeWalt rates extremely well in job capacity and cut repeatability.
Just depends on what you see yourself doing with the saw beyond the plastics work. If it's only for this job at hand, a CMS would probably offer everything you need and you can save a great deal. The key is to get one that CAN be adjusted to near perfection, and to get a great blade. Several awesome mentions in this thread.
G'luck.
michael
Thanks to you and everyone else for the responses. Portability is not a concern. How well the saw holds its adjustments is.The crosscut capacity of a 10" slider would be nice and that's a strong consideration for an all purpose tool, even though the majority of its work will be cutting miters in 1" PVC angle.More selection on 10" plastic cutting blades as well.
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