Replies

1. 
   Scrit | Nov 21, 2003 07:21pm | #1

   Carter Products make laser guide kits.

   Scrit

1. 
   Paff | Nov 22, 2003 08:23am | #2

   Thanks Scrit. I wrote to them so lets see what they have to say. From the looks of their website they make general purpose laser guides and not necessarily one specifically for miter saws.

2. 
   Manchild | Nov 23, 2003 05:34am | #3

   I think the laser is a great idea but from what i've heard they are not precise enough. On a cutoff saw you need to cut a very small line and the laser is to thick.

   Maybe good lighting and a fine tip marker?

1. 
   Paff | Nov 25, 2003 10:55am | #4

   The need for a laser, at least for me, is a rare occurance. However, when you know the cut line but not the angle, its a big plus to have the laser guide.

   Secondly, the laser line, as I have seen it, is pretty sharp edged and your cut is directly to the right (right on the edge). At least that is the case with the Laser Trac.

   The Laser kerf is a beam that is the same width as the kerf on your blade. This one shows what you will be removing rather than just one edge of one of the two pieces you will be left with.

1. 
   Manchild | Nov 25, 2003 05:30pm | #5

   I,ve never used a laser on a saw. I do need a new chopsaw and have been looking at them.

   I read one post that said when it comes down to cutting really fine lines the laser isn't close enough. That made sense to me. Maybe all lasers are not the same. I did look at a Hitatchi and the laser line was not close enough for me.

   What I currently have on my priority list for a saw is this. Not necesarily in this order.

   Compacity of cut (12"), High quality precision operation of saw, quieter operation, and a stand under it so I can move it and still do high quality work.

   I'm thinking of putting two small machine lights on it so they will always be there.

   For me the laser isn't that high on the list. 

1. 
   YesMaam27577 | Nov 25, 2003 06:45pm | #6

   I've mentioned this before when the concept of laser guides came up.

   If the projects that you will be doing are primarily fine woodworking, then the laser will be of minimal use. There are very few marking tools that present a line that is thin enough for truly fine woodworking. That is why people who hand cut dovetails use a razor-edge knife for their markings, and why we use sleds and stops on our table saws.

   On the other hand, if your projects will include home improvements, with framing tasks, then the laser will be a big help. In general, if you're within an eighth of an inch when framing, then you're right on the mark.

   Vast projects should not be founded on half vast ideas.

1. 
   Paff | Nov 25, 2003 07:01pm | #7

   Yessir! You are pretty much right on the mark. I use my Dewalt compuond slider for working on other peoples houses installing everything from false end treads on stairs to recesses wainscot paneling. Generally I dont need the laser, but as I mentioned earlier, when you know the cut line but not the angle, its a big plus to have.

2. 
   forestgirl | Nov 26, 2003 06:56am | #8

   "Maybe all lasers are not the same."   For sure.  I'm wonderin if the lasers that shine on both sides of the cut, thereby delineating the kerf would be significantly more accurate.forestgirl Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl   ;-)

1. 
   Elcoholic | Nov 27, 2003 01:21am | #9

   Attention Laser fans.  A few pages into the new issue of FWW there's an add for Lowes' house brand of "Laser Guided" tools.  I had a good laugh as Laser Guided is a huge misnomer.  Laser Indicated might be more accurate.  When I think of Laser Guided I think of missles, CD players and graders.  I can just see some dork in the return line taking back his laser guided jig saw "'cause it just sits there".John O'Connell - JKO Handcrafted Woodworking

   Life is tough.  It's tougher if you're stupid - John Wayne

3. 
   RANGERP75R | Nov 27, 2003 09:22pm | #10

       I agree with those that think the laser light is not to be judged as super accurate. At least I have not found them to be. I got lucky and found the old Hitachi 10" SCMS on clearance at Lowe's a year ago. They were making way for the new "laser dazer crazer" model. At $239 it was a deal I couldn't refuse even though I am not a trim carpenter.

      The old Hitachi has a plastic guide block behind the fence that you cut into. With that feature you know exactly where the teeth will touch on both sides of the 10" blade. This is a plus as I use the SCMS more than my TS to cross-cut even though I have an accurate slider an mitre gauge on it. It's a quicker set-up, especially with longer stock.

      I will leave laser for the military and swat teams. They seem to be more impressed. ha.. ha...

   Happy Thanksgiving...

   sarge..jt

   Proud member of the :  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

4. 
   CarbonJoe | Nov 28, 2003 08:23am | #11

   Dave -

   Check out Avenger Products at http://www.avengerproducts.com/products_laser.html. I got one for my DeWalt slider at Hartville Tool for $49.99

   CJ

5. 
   BobH | Nov 28, 2003 08:07pm | #12

   Laser guides can be very accurate! Note that it is not the width of the laser mark that is used -- it is the edge -- especially for the lasers that mount on the blade arbor.

   I purchased toe Sears one and mounted it on a Delts CMS. Its edge marks the cut line. I find it extremely accurate. The blade cuts exactly at the edge fo the laser, which is very well defined. I use it routinely for fine woodworking cuts. It is invaluable to match the cut to a pencil drawn angle on a board.

   I disagree that lasers are only good for carpentry work -- use the defined edge of the mark, not the line! Its a matter of learning to understand how the laser marks the cut.

   Bob H.

1. 
   Paff | Nov 29, 2003 07:54am | #13

   Bob H,

   Im a strong proponent of arbor mounted lasers! I think you have me mixed up with someone else. I was just saying the same thing about the edge of the laser being the cut line.

   Im not sure how much I like the LaserKerf device because it outlines the material to be cut away based on the kerf of your blade. I can see an advantage over the arbor mount in that you have your cut line marked out for both sides of the blade (I often use both sides depending on which edge of my material I want against the fence in relation to my cut).

   Also, for anyone that does hand work (tracing and such), there are laser products out there for silhouetting or projecting your image onto the piece you are going to cut. I think this would be great for someone who does inlays or marketry.

   Bob, I would like to know how you went about retrofitting the arbor mount to your Delta!

1. 
   BobH | Nov 29, 2003 08:33pm | #14

   Dave,

   My comments regarding the arbor mounted laser were directed toward the posters that commented on using them only for construction -- my display is not set for ree mode, but only a flat display of responses. Since there were more then one response like that, I just went to the top message and replied.

   Sorry for the confusion!

   The Sears laser just fit on the Delta -- its diameter and flat spots matched the arbor on the Delta exactly, and the supplies screw (looked like a machine screw flat head screw) fit the arbor. I just replaced the existing blade washer with the laser and screw. Just lucky I guess.

   Bob H.

1. 
   Paff | Nov 30, 2003 10:42am | #17

   No worries Bob

   I have a Delta 12". I havent checked to see if it fits that saw yet. I primarily use my DeWalt slider though and its a match on the dia. but not the flats- too wide on the laser. Im looking into some other options though.

6. 
   mudman | Nov 30, 2003 08:16am | #15

   Hey Guys, and Gals,

     I haven't seen a laser that was accurate enough yet. On the ones I have looked at the edge was not sharp enough for me to be sure, I still had to nibble cut. Those who said it would be good for framing obviously havent used one on a construction site. Unfortunately my saw is always out doors on a job, where the Texas sun washes out the laser completely. The other thing I dont like about them is that the blade has to be running to activate the laser, this always led me to pulling the triger with one hand and trying to scoot the piece that 1/32" over, which isn't easy with 8' stock. I think it is good to have in a shopwhere a lot of cuts are made and 1/16 or maybe 1/32 is close enough, but I wouldn't trust it for furniture, and it doesn't work outside. So, I would like to have it, but I wouldn't base my purchase on it.

   Mike

1. 
   Paff | Nov 30, 2003 10:53am | #18

   Yeah, Im not sure any of the lasers would be good in the sun. When Im framing, I usually put up a tent cover if its hot and sunny out. Most of the time I use my worm drive for framing though. Its much faster and more mobile for that kind of work.

   Thats one thing I dont like about the arbor mount. I would like the laser to work via foot pedal or something.

   You take the good with the bad I guess. As for the clarity of the laser, you must have had a bad one.

   No offense, but do you where glasses?

   Eye strain is common for people who work with extreme detail work. I even experience it when working with extreme precision cuts and I have 20/20 vision. I think its mostly cause Im somewhat of a workaholic and I keep going long after I shouldve stopped. LOL

1. 
   mudman | Dec 01, 2003 09:21pm | #20

   Dave,

     No offence taken. Actually I was going to mention that my eyesight is not perfect. I once again passed the DPS eye exam! and I don't wear the glasses I have. But they do help.  I think that most of us have less than 20/20. Regardless for rough framing the lasers are good enough, if you can see them. I don't trust the ones I have seen for my shop built work. The blade tooth thing makes sense to me. I also think  that arbor and blade runout as well as vibration mess it up. I think the best set up will be a laser mounted to the base of the saw that does not require the blade to be running to work. That would solve most of the instability problems, not to mention safety. By the way I am a huge techno weenie right down to my HP Ipac, so I am excited about the lasers , I have two systems for leveling and plumbing walls, but I think the manufacturers are slapping these arbor lasers on without any real RD effort. I subscribe to several industry journals and all the field reviews have been wanting. I am somewhat offended that the manufacturers would put so little effort into a potientaly great inovation on a $500 tool!

   Mike

1. 
   Paff | Dec 03, 2003 08:02am | #21

   AAAAAAAmen!

   I think for now, Im going to give up on the laser thing. I was doing some tricky window casings just today, and I was thinkin (scary notion) that it would be nice to have the laser. But you know what? I simply made do like always and as usual it came out great! So screw those guys if they dont want to make an extra buck for a decent laser! In the end, the guys that buy them end up hiring me to do the work anyway because, after all, they really dont know how to use their new toys. LOL

7. 
   GHR | Nov 30, 2003 08:49am | #16

   Lasers cannot make a sharp edged line the teeth are wider than the body of the blade. At best there are 2 edges to the lasar. One shows the body of the blade. The other much fainter shows the edge of the teeth.

   This is true for any blade with clearance between the teeth and the body.

1. 
   Paff | Nov 30, 2003 11:06am | #19

   George, theres a difference between a laser and a light line. The "lasers" we are refering to are actually LED light lines. A laser (typically gas generated) is extremely sharp edged and can be quite dangerous because of their intensity.

   I have a lot of experience working with laser die cutters where the consistency of the cut is plus or minus a millionths at a rate of 4-6" per second in 3/4 marine grade ply.

   As for the light line lasers on the miter saws, theyre sharp enough for most applications and if they are blurry, its either eye strain or an unbalanced blade.

   As for the difference in kerf versus blade stock thickness, the Laser Trac (as you will see if you look closer) is offset to accommodate for that difference.