Replies

1. 
   RW | Oct 28, 2002 11:56pm | #1

   For all the speed the power saw offers you, on thin moldings you run a pretty good risk of blowing out pieces from the back of the cut, and since you're going to see both sides, by hand is quick with such small stock. If you have a miter box that's perfectly fine. Even the cheap ones can work to get you close to where you need to be. So lets say all you have is a $3 wood box and a backsaw. Make your cuts, leave them just a hair long, and assemble the finished deal on your workbench top. Nail little cleats into the top, perfectly square, to hold the "frame", and leave the cleats short of the corners. Put your frame in it, 2 pieces at first, clamping them in place. Butt the first corner tight, take a 0 offset trim saw and saw straight down through the corner joint. Put in the next piece, clamp, do the same. After each cut, reset your clamps to hold things in place. Your cuts, if a touch less than perfect, will create a matched cut through the molding. But clamping the original cuts tight is important so the saw is forced to actually take wood since the blade is so thin and it will want to migrate into open space.

1. 
   billballeza | Oct 29, 2002 12:48am | #2

   RW.. I have trouble visualizing.. hence my problem with mitering. Without pictures or someone doing it right in front of me, I'm lost. What I think I hear you saying is to cut the two pieces straight.. then overlap them and cut through them creating a miter. Is that correct? And the rest of the stuff about cleats and frame.. I just don't understand. I know it's asking alot.. but could you please try again? Call me dense, I guess. Thanks..

   bill

1. 
   RW | Oct 29, 2002 03:06am | #3

   Mark your pieces for length, and then cut the miters leaving just the pencil line. I'm making the assumption you are cutting with a backsaw and a box. Now visualise a box, or better yet, draw a box on a piece of paper. Erase the corners of the box. You have 4 lines left that are at 90 degrees to each other. Those lines represent the cleats you would nail to a workbench or worktable to support the outside of your mitered pieces, which look like nothing more than a frame if they're not on the drawer. Put one corner together by clamping the individual pieces to the cleats and paying attention to put some pressure into the corner. You've left out the corners of the box b/c thats where the saw goes now. Follow your previously cut line with a very thin saw with 0 offset to the teeth. You are in essence shaving the miter true to the two pieces you are cutting simultaneously. Build your frame by adding a piece at a time until all 4 sides are inside the cleats with tight joints. It's a whole lot simpler than it must look in print. Good luck.

1. 
   billballeza | Oct 29, 2002 11:16pm | #5

   Got it! Thanks for taking the time to explain it again. You really have a knack for helping a guy "see" the light. I'm headed to the workbench when I get off work tonight. Thanks again, RW.

   bill

2. 
   Alan | Oct 29, 2002 05:00am | #4

   Bill,

   "Kerfing in," as RW described, is one way to make better miters.  A miter trimmer, such as a Lion, is probably the fastest and easiest way to sweeten up miter cuts.  But IMHO the second easiest way to make good miters is with a shooting board.  With a shooting board, as with a Lion miter trimmer, you can easily split your lay-out lines at a precise angle.

   I've yet to see a miter box, power or not, or saw that cuts perfect miters.  I have a Nobex, which is a very good tool, but the cuts that come off my Nobex can still be improved.  Long ago I was taught the wonders of a good shooting board.  I have one that I use to square up the ends of stock--for drawers, as an example--and a second to sweeten up my miters.

   I've seen various designs for shooting boards that will do both straight cuts and miters.  Generally they have a second fence that is somehow clamped to the permanent fence.  These designs do work, but I find it easier to make two.  If you have a plane, almost any plane can work, and some scrap plywood and/or some odds and ends, you can cobble together a serviceable shooting board in a couple hours--at most.

   Alan

1. 
   billballeza | Oct 29, 2002 11:20pm | #6

   Alan.. thanks for weighing in. You don't have to reply, honestly, but to be honest with you.. I don't understand what you mean by a "shooting board". I kind of wish I did though because it sounds like a great tool for squaring up drawer parts which is something I could really use. Thanks..

   bill

1. 
   sorethum1 | Oct 30, 2002 01:20am | #7

   How about mitering edge banding for a desktop?  When you kerf saw, are you sawing on the line where the two angled pieces meet? Then pushing them together again? If there's a gap initially, the saw will cut only the parts touching.  Keep doing this until everything meets neatly? 

   I'm also having trouble picturing a shooting board for edge mitering that is 1-1/2 in long.  Todd

2. 
   fredsmart48 | Oct 30, 2002 03:50am | #8

   Take a piece of 3/4 ply that is flat.

   next a piece of 1/4 ply that is flat and has a very strait edge

   fix that to the 3/4 about 2 inches in

   next take a 3/4 by 3" x10" ply that has a straight edge attach that to the base at 45 degrees.

   now the plane lays on it side the bottom rides against the 1/4 ply

   lay the board you want with the 45 against the 3x10 and plane away.

   BUT here is the problem

   if you did not get the 3x10 attached at 45 you will not get a 45.

   I got an old jack plane cheep so I ground a 1/4 notch in the blade so it would not cut into the 1/4 ply wood. the blade also need to be 90 degrees to bottom of the plane

3. 
   RW | Oct 30, 2002 04:21am | #9

   You got it. Kerf sawing - not a term I've used, but appropo. Then you reset your clamps tight again, and work around. And thanks for the compliment. I spent a few years as an instructor and people keep telling me that I have a knack for putting things into focus. Now if my wife would just think that.

4. 
   Alan | Oct 31, 2002 02:35am | #10

   Bill,

   Fredsmart pretty well described how to make a shooting board.  Basically it's just a flat board (the "ramp") with another flat board attached to it (the base) with a fence attached to the base at the angle you wish to shoot.  Fasten the base to the ramp so there's room for your plane to move to and fro on the ramp.  Also make sure that the edge of the base against which the plane will run has an absolutely straight edge.

   Before using the shooting board the first time, run your plane against the straight edge of the base, just as you will when you shoot stock.  You should take off thin shavings from the edge of the base and the fence.  Keep at it until the plane stops cutting.  This is called "running in."  It creates a little ledge on the bottom of the base--where the plane cannot cut--against which the plane will run when the board is in use.  Running in makes the shooting board easier to use and, most importantly, it ensures the sole of your plane will meet the end of the stock at the angle of the fence.

   I think it was on this board there was a thread about shooting boards not too long ago.  You might check the archives under "picture frames" and/or "shooting boards."  If you cannot find anything you can go to the library and look at David Charlesworth's Furniture Making Techniques; he has an excellent discussion of shooting boards along with illustrations.  (Sorry I don't remember if it's in volume one or two.)

   Alan

5. 
   joker | Oct 31, 2002 07:50pm | #11

   I believe it was in volume 2, great books by the way. Alan or anyone, do you or have you used a "donkeys ear"? I think that it what it is called. I have seen pictures and have read about it. Unfortunately, what I have seen does not go into enough detail for my simple mind, like a more detailed picture or description or showing it in actual use. thanks for any help. I do not believe this was referred to in David Charlesworths' book, but I am going to take another look.