I finally purchased a MM16 last week… it arrived laying down. they ship it that way.<!—-><!—-> <!—->
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First things first. The manual is pretty much a joke; and actually sending no manual would have been better. Just put the parts list in a pdf on your website.<!—-> <!—->
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They no longer send a pigtail; so you have to wire your own off a terminal block. Ok but the video shows one so I called my sales guy and he told me to wire my own. Ok. The fan cover on the motor was crushed; and no wonder the entire saw was lying on the motor. It also broke off the screws holding the cover so now I have to figure out how to get broken screws out of the motor housing.<!—-> <!—->
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After watching the video on how to setup… I was able to get to the point where I’m ready to fire it up. Nothing… call the support tech… after spending an hour disassembling the switch and poking around with a multi-meter I’m no closer to knowing why it will not run?<!—-><!—->
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Called the sales guy. I will try tomorrow morning with the support tech to see if we can figure anything out? If we make no progress… sales guy indicated we can engage a local electrician.<!—-><!—->
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I’ll try to reserve my overall opinion until after it runs or gets shipped back. But I can say I’m really disappointed in the quality of the switch and electrical. It’s all plastic.<!—-><!—->
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The mobility kit is a complete joke and so is the miter gage. <!—-> <!—->
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The foot brake has a kill switch who’s bracket is adjusted with an Allen screw. It’s completely impossible to get at this screw because it’s behind the bottom wheel. You can get at it through a hole in the wheel but its way off center. It only took me 2 tries and it’s stripped now.<!—-><!—->
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If somebody asked me today I would say run as fast as you can away from this bandsaw. Maybe I’ll change my mind after it starts working?<!—-> <!—->
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Replies
sleepy-
It's disturbing to read of your negative experience with your MiniMax bandsaw. I bought my MM16 about a year ago, and I've had excellent service from the company, but then I haven't had your sort of problems
I agree with you about the factory manual. but my salesman sent me a link to a much better (but far from excellent) manual produced by US customers. I'll include it as an attachment below.
My machine was shipped vertically, and nothing was damaged in transit. It was a shaky few minutes getting the high-center-of-gravity thing off the pallet, but the Johnson-bar mobility kit made it easy to maneuver in the shop. My opinion of the mobility kit is more favorable than yours.
You've poked around the foot-brake microswitch, but have you checked the other two switches on the two doors? I will confess an embarrassing electrical problem of mine which might provide a clue. My saw wouldn't start one day, so I started the same exploration as you have with a continuity tester. I even started fishing wires out of the column, which was the only way I could find to check the microswitches.
By chance, I happened to pull on the start switch. Unwanted friction had held the switch depressed against the spring force trying to push it open. Dislodging the grain of sawdust or whatever was in the way cured the whole problem.
Wiring in your own pigtail and connectors is a pain, I know.
Good luck with solving your remaining problems. Once you get it running, I think you will be pleased with the saw.
Don
Edited 10/2/2008 6:36 pm ET by DonaldCBrown
My complaint with the mobility kit is 2 fold.<!----><!----><!---->
First the lower door bumps into the wheel making a blade change with a wider blade inconvenient. Not a big deal but it’s just not well thought out. Much like the brake lever kill switch allen screw. Not well though out or considered at all.<!----><!---->
Second is my major complaint. With the Johnny bar I can’t get the rear wheels to contact the ground. the bar with the wheels is so crooked only one of the wheels contacts the ground. it’s like somebody tapped the threads in the wrong place on one side? So basically the mobility kit does not work at all. I guess maybe I’ll have to beat on it with a hammer to get it to work?<!----><!---->
And now the tech service guy who was supposed to be available is not available? So MM is going to pay an electrician to come and get it going or I’m shipping the piece back to them. End of story.
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A piece of machinery at this level should be tested and working before it leaves the manufacture. Not leaving the customer to trouble shoot all their quality problems.
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I don’t care how good their customer service is; and at this point I would say their customer service is maybe the worst I’ve seen. Powermatic, jet, delta, Makita, dewalt, and festool have given me better customer service.
I’m hugely disappointed with MM. It’s surprising to me since most people seem to sing praise for them.
Looks like you're not having the same issue I was, but dialing up the limiter was worth a try.
I hated the Johnson bar mob. kit too but a lot of folks (with really flat floors I assume) seem to like them OK. Check out Zambus or Great Lakes casters. Way better setup than the Johnson bar, plus if you're tall you'll gain some table height too which is nice. That will also get rid of the interference to the door for wide blade changes. But that's about a 15 second fix with their mobility kit anyway. Just pull the clevis pin on the wheel and pop it off and the door will swing all the way. Let me guess - that's still not in the manual right?
In general I think MM does have good service if you can manage to be working with the machine during their hours. Otherwise there's some back and forth and more time is lost before a cause is found, then waiting on a replacement part if necessary. The fact they're sending someone out (on their dime) is positive. What they cant seem to get through their heads though is how unnecessarily frustrating (and expensive) a lot of this CS probably is. If they would just create a proper manual complete with electrical diagnostic procedures, schematics, Up-to-date parts diagrams, etc. a lot of issues could be figured out by the owner or at least the offending part determined. At this rate, you may still find yourself waiting for a part once the local electrician determines the problem.
If you can get past the initial issues it's a great saw, especially if you throw a carbide blade on for resawing.
If you build it he will come.
I’m a short guy only 5’9”
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My workbench is only 33”. Short guy with long arms. (Possible gorilla joke here)
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MM sales guy told me the tech support dept was short staffed. I was about to tell him I just read the unemployment stats and there should be plenty of people to hire. But I let it go… if they are short then well I guess it will take a bit.
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I have a nice 20” red oak trunk waiting to be quartered… dam-it.
I had/have some of the same problems with my MM16. Mine was shipped vertical and was not very secure on the pallet, which was not very robust. One of the metal pads on which the saw rests sits too low (misaligned during welding), so I can never move the saw without the rear end scraping the floor. MM told me I could fix it myself by filing the holes larger in the bar to which the wheels attach. The brake pedal was also slightly bent. The guy who sold it to me was going to replace it, but when he suddenly disappeared, so did the offer. I also bought an FS30 jointer/planer. The first one arrived on its side, having tipped over. Did'nt appear to be strapped to the pallet at all. We sent it back without taking it off the truck. The next one arrived with the plastic cowl around the end of the cutterhead smashed and some damage to a plastic flange around the on/off switch. MM sent me the parts, I fixed it myself and they gave me two sets of jointer knives for my trouble. The fence on the bandsaw has a slight curvature to it, which I corrected by applying wooden faces and shimming them. I had my bandsaw for a long time before I got it up and running. By the time I had discovered the fence problem, MM told me that it was out of warranty and they could'nt do anything. The tech guy said he would look around the shop and come up with a fence for me. Never heard from him again. When I expressed my concerns about the bandsaw pallet to the USA president of MM, he disagreed completely, thought their packaging was quite robust.
Bottom line - my MM16 works very well, does whatever I ask of it. I don't own a table saw and do all of my ripping on the MM16. It is capable of very straight cuts and great quality of cut, but as far as the "world class customer service", I have yet to see it. Make certain that you check out your saw thoroughly within the warranty period.
Thanks.<!----><!----><!---->
I should be talking to the sales guy today. How long is the warranty period?<!----><!---->
I'm really considering crating the thing back up and shipping it back; making them pay for the return shipping and getting a full refund.
As far as I’m concerned it’s a fraud to sell something that is broken.
I guarantee they never started it or tested it in any way.
If your salesman doesn't respond give Michael Kahn a call. I had all kind of problems with my slider. My salesman, for whatever reason, was unresponsive. Tech support was worthless. I finally got in touch with Michael and he took care of me. Give him a chance to make it right.Steve
who is michael kahn? where can I call him?
I'm not sure of his title but he is essentially the top dog at MM. Call MM and ask for him. You'll probably need to leave a message but he was VERY responsive to my problems.
Give me a break. I have to call the president of the company to get his lackeys to do their job?<!----><!----><!---->
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Thanks for making my mind up for me. I’ll be sending the saw back. <!----><!---->
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Doesn’t it make you nervous about the overall quality of something that is broken from the get go?<!----><!---->
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Seriously?
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I don’t mean to hack on you; it’s nice enough that you replied and tried to help. Thanks for that. I’m just pissed at MM in general.
I was pissed too. Michael made it right. You might want to give him a call.The MM16 is a great saw. If you get your issues resolved you'll be plenty happy with it.MM just recently moved their operations to Atlanta and I know they are in the process of hiring better tech support. It's not an excuse, but it may explain why their tech support has been weak lately.
I think it's a year.
yes it's 1 year. it says it on the contact. thanks.
Who's your sales guy?
Erik Loza [[email protected]]
Don't know him, but the bandsaws are somewhat different from other Minimax products in that they're made by a company called Centauro, in Italy. I get the impression that MM has a more difficult time maintaining quality regarding the bandsaws due to its loss of control over process and packaging. I was much more impressed overall with my jointer/planer.
If you do send the saw back, you might try giving Jesse at Eagle Tools a call. I bought an aggazani BS from them. They uncrate and tune all their machines before shipping them to customers. Definitely first-rate service with their machines.
Eric
which one do you own?
sounds like your happy with it?
B20 - I am very happy with it. Fit and finish excellent and Eagle tools sends the machine ready to go. I might have had to buy a plug but the wheels were balanced, etc.
yeah that mobility kit is less than optimal. The sweet setup is to use Zambus AC-300S casters, the posts screw into the factory holes on the base and the machine will glide around your shop like it's on a bed of air. They are $35 each, but worth it. I've had nothing but good experience with this company and their customer support. Give them a chance to make it right. Also, their is a support forum on Yahoo Groups, it's "minimax-usa".
Sorry, the attachment didn't attach the first time. Here it is.
Dont get me started on their manuals. Have you tried dialing up the small limiter on the side of the switch? I had elec switch problems on mine and they had to send me a replacement. That one had the mechanical problems resolved but had a different limter range than the original. I couldn't get that one to fire up until turning the amp rating on that switch up. The new switches on your's from what I've read has a lot fewer issues than the old ones though.
If you build it he will come.
small limiter?
If you take the switch cover off, there will be a small (maybe 3/8" diam) slotted dial on the face of the switch housing. This is assuming that your newer switch isnt drastically different internally.If you build it he will come.
moeller pkzm01-25 are the big words on the start stop station.<!----><!----><!---->
yes there is a little yellow slot dial with 20, 25 and some other weird symbols.<!----><!---->
I tried moving it 1/4 turn left and right but it made no difference.<!----><!---->
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I hear you.. Please do not get so upset untill you get it running!
NO I do not have one
Sleepydad
You've got one issue that would have had me refusing delivery at the outset.
The fan cover on the motor was crushed; and no wonder the entire saw was lying on the motor. It also broke off the screws holding the cover so now I have to figure out how to get broken screws out of the motor housing.
But since it appears you chose to accept it and work out the problems, it doesn't sound to me as if you've given enough time to MM to make things right. You first posted on Oct 2, and 2 working days later you're sending the saw back and PO'ed about the entire company. You've had at least 2 days longer over the weekend to steam over this than they've had to do anything about it.
Who knows if the power-on problem is related to the busted off screws or not. But I'm not sure I'd want to turn it on if there were a chance there were screws floating about inside the motor. And whatever caused that damage could also be the cause of the electric problem even if they're not related. Could MM do a better job crating their saws to protect from this? Maybe - but transportation damage happens to EVERY shipper of WW machinery. This is probably a case where you really want to shoot the messenger (carrier) though, not MM. You posted on Oct 3 that MM had decided to have it checked out by a local electrician. That cant possibly have happened yet did it? It sounds like MM is making an effort here but you're not allowing enough time to let it happen. I also dealt with Erik Loza and I think he genuinely wants you to end up satisfied and with a working machine without problems.
You seem to be venting as much over the mobility kit as the electrical problems. Yes the Johnson Cheesebar isn't an optimal setup unless you've got very level floors. But I'm not aware of too many other big bandsaw makers that have anything much better or even have a mobility option. As many BS owners have discovered, if you really need a good mobile fix you probably need to make your own, buy a dedicated mobile base that will fit your saw, or go to Zambus or Great Lakes casters.
No argument on the miter gauge - complete POS - but I'd be interested in knowing of a large BS maker that includes a GOOD miter gauge. Good ones aren't cheap and probably aren't standard equipment with most bandsaws. Getting an Incra V27 is a very good move for BS use.
Buying a new BS in this class leaves you with probably 3 makers, none of whom have nationwide dealer networks. Unless you're geographically situated close, having to work out any issues is obviously not going to be as easy as dealing with a local seller.
And yes - their manuals SUCK (both hardcopy AND the online one). Sounds like their online videos suck as well. Just one more place where they can show info that doesn't match what's currently being shipped.
If you build it he will come.
I would have refused it but I could not see that part of the saw. It was lying on the motor covered in shrink wrap. It looked perfect.<!----><!----><!---->
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I was able to extract the screws. It was pretty easy; I was able to drill a really small hole in the screw and use a really small extractor reverse screw thing to get them out.<!----><!---->
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I don’t agree about Erik Loza he seems like your typical car sales guy.
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It’s my expectations. I have read so many positive things about MM I was just expecting something more than this. I was expecting a top notch saw that would run. What I got was not what I expected.
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Shipping is always a gamble… you never know. I have had things arrive completely destroyed. But most things arrive in good order.
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Lesions learned. No more MM for me.<!----><!---->
Over at the MiniMax forum they seem to be responding to these type of issues by censoring posts.
I am a long-time MM customer but I am concerned about their future. It seems like there is a new culture and that it the opposite of customer service focused. I hope that I am wrong.
I’ve posted over there as well.
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I was a lot nicer over there than I have been here.
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After I called the sales guy several times and emailed he finally gave me a callback.
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Communications is not forthcoming; and only after I annoy them do they do call back.
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When somebody tells you they will call you at a certain date time then don’t and act all surprised to hear from you something is wrong.
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Squeaky wheel getting the grease is one thing. Having to threaten to ship it back to get even a callback is not good customer service.
I wanted to put a follow-up to the problem.
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Last night I was messing around with the switch and had it pulled out as far as I could get it. I was trying to test continuity and voltage. While doing this I bumped the switch while it was lying on the table. It swung off the table and wacked the machine. After uttering a “whoops” I put it back on the table and started testing where I left off. Everything looked good and I pushed the button and viola the motor started?
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So tech support is sending me a new switch. I guess problem solved.
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My wife called it the Fonzie fix.
"It swung off the table and wacked the machine. " The Fonzie Fix, I love it. Should be the first resort, not the last, eh? Kinda like the starter on hubby's little truck awhile back, a knock with a hammer or wrench worked for about 2 weeks.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Reminds me of the time I came out of church and came upon a woman whose car wouldn't start. There were two small children in the back seat and it was cold.I went up to her and said, "Can I help?" She said, "No. Not necessary." The she went to the trunk and pulled out a hammer. She gave the starter solenoid a good whack, got in the car and it started.I wonder what would have happened if she had said, "Yes." to my question.Frosty"I sometimes think we consider the good fortune of the early bird and overlook the bad fortune of the early worm." FDR - 1922
Guess what? That trick can sometimes work on a stuck fuel pump too! The things you learn when your step-son is a Chevy mechanic, LOL! That little tidbit saved us a towing charge on my car a few months ago. Good thing, as replacing the fuel pump cost several hundreds of $$.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
I hope you are not as dumb as I but when I got my MM16, I couldn't get the thing going. Pulled and pushed. Finally, when I was ready to give up, I pushed on this plastic thing on the side and it came to action!
Well whatever it was I’m starting to like the saw. It’s so nice to be able to quickly saw something 10+” thick.
The stop button is a little odd having to pull it out is not what I’m used to.
Why in the world did you accept delivery?
Jim
Why in the world did you accept delivery?
"I would have refused it but I could not see that part of the saw. It was lying on the motor covered in shrink wrap. It looked perfect."
they ship it that way. lying down. Seriously. it was not tipped over.<!----><!----><!---->
dad,
I understand that completely. Someone else asked why you accepted delivery - I was just quoting you to let him know you accepted delivery because you didn't see the damage.
Lee
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