Replies

1. 
   JohnWW | Feb 02, 2007 07:55pm | #1

   The first and best line of defense is to have good drainage around the outside of the foundation, so water never reaches the wall.  Start by seeing if you can direct rain away from the foundation by changing the contour of the ground and installing gutters with drainpipes that carry the water away from the house.  Make sure also that any existing drain lines aren't blocked.

   If that doesn't work, there aren't any cheap solutions and you will have to dig around the foundation and install footer drains and a gravel back fill.  Anything you do from the inside of the foundation to try to stop the water will most likely be only partially successful at best and won't eliminate enough infiltration to make the basement truly dry.

   John White, Shop Manager, Fine Woodworking Magazine 

1. 
   Rich07 | Feb 03, 2007 03:49am | #3

   We have gutters and sloped the ground away from the shop. There was a perimiter drain put in at the time of construction. The walls have been tared from the outside . The only thing I wish we had done was insulate the outside walls and the floor. I wonder if the problem lies in the fact that the garage is 8 ft underground and is warmer than the outside air in the winter and cooler than the outside air in the summer. There is also little or no air movement during the day . Only fresh air is when we open and close the garage door. Any thoughts?

1. 
   cadiddlehopper | Feb 03, 2007 04:14am | #4

   Tell us where in the world you live. Using a dehumidifier may be some help to you if you will keep the doors closed also.Cadiddlehopper

1. 
   Rich07 | Feb 03, 2007 04:42am | #5

   I live in southern NH

1. 
   hammer1 | Feb 03, 2007 08:42am | #7

   I think you hit on at least part of the problem when you said the place was closed up. I'm in Southern Maine and run a couple of inexpensive fans when conditions are humid. I'm having the opposite problem right now. I heat with a woodstove and my skin is starting to itch. Are you heating the space? Propane heaters are known for giving off a lot of moisture. Constantly staying damp can breed mold and cause problems for you and the building, not to mention your woodwork projects. It's a good idea to get a hygrometer so you know where you stand. I'd run some fans and a dehumidifier to see if you can get some control. It may take a few weeks before you see a change, With the temperatures we are having, I don't think ground water is a major contributor.Beat it to fit / Paint it to match

2. 
   Rich07 | Feb 03, 2007 08:12pm | #11

   Do you run ceiling fans or just some box fans? The room is 30x36x 9 and does have a hotwater  blower fan in one corner . The heat source does not heat the garage very well.  It generally stays at about 40 degrees when I'm not in there and I generally heat it to about 60 degrees during the day.

3. 
   BG | Feb 04, 2007 03:50am | #12

   Richard,

   There are many possibilities that is causing your problem: ledge, underground stream, etc. ..it would be very important to understand why before the money is spent. Regradless of the shop impact, that's a situation which has larger implecations to the health of the house.

   A few posts back someone mentioned Insta Dry. This Old house just used them on a house in E. Boston. They put a drain in around the perimenter and a special material on the wet wall to keep moisture away from the room interior. This could help, however, you did mentioned that a drainage pipe had been installed. I'd sure like to know why that is not working. 

4. 
   Rich07 | Feb 04, 2007 04:23am | #13

   Ther is a very large piece of ledge in the yard. It's about 5' from the foundation. I really think it maybe condensation on the walls not ground water. I have a spot were the old and new foundation meet and have had no sign of leakage. I think though if I don't get the moisture under control it woll mold the ceiling drywall and possible the floor joist to the floor above. Does moisture form when there is little or no air movement? And someone said before to cover the machines. Is there a special cover or will anything due?

5. 
   BG | Feb 04, 2007 07:31am | #15

   Richard,I gave you the wrong reference. It was Bob Villa at the Melrose house, here is the video linkhttp://www.bobvila.com/TV_Showrooms/Basement_Systems/video7.htmlThe vapor barrier on the walls caught my attention.It's hard for me to imagine moisture of that magnitude is comming from the air(condensation). I have parking under the house also with 8' poured concrete on three sides and a very dry basement, I'm lucky. Last year after a week or two of heavy rain I had a couple of very small leaks...it came in through the rusted out 1/8" metal ties that once held the forms in place. My soil is extremely sandy and drains very well. That is why I think that ledge may be throwing a lot of water against your foundation wall.However, it is possible your geographical area is in a hollow and is subject to higher moisture. This is true of places like Dedham, MA. and so more condensation on windshields, general dampness, etc.

   Edited 2/4/2007 5:56 am ET by BG

6. 
   Rich07 | Feb 05, 2007 12:27am | #16

   Thanks for the info

7. 
   dougmeyer | Feb 05, 2007 03:16am | #17

   Well I don't know about where you are at now but this past summer I had so much moisture on my walls in my Basement (new house and the concrete was green but still) that it looked like someone sprayed them with a hose. The poor dehumidifier in the basement was running non stop and the humidity NEVER got below 60 or so for days at a time.  This was with out the AC unit running as the HVAC was not in the house yet. So this can happen. 

   The only think I can think of is the get rid of the humidity. First off get something to check the humidity level in the space.  IF it is high then I bet this is the issue. Only ways to stop it then are to either get rid of the humidity or to stop the cold wall from contacting the humid air. Your issue is made harder by (if I understand this right) the garage being above the space. I am just guessing here But I think that the issue may be that the garage is cold and thus the cold gets into the floor of the garage and caries down to the walls of the basement shop. IF that is the case then you need to insulate the walls.  I would suggest using foam (not fiberglass).

   Well hope that helps.

   Doug Meyer

8. 
   hammer1 | Feb 04, 2007 05:06am | #14

   I have a couple Wal-Mart fans on stands. I run them 24/7 when conditions warrant. Circulating air makes a big difference alone. You are seeing condensation from the warm air hitting the cold concrete. An air exchanger may be a way to go until, or if, you insulate the space in the future.
   Beat it to fit / Paint it to match

2. 
   cadiddlehopper | Feb 03, 2007 05:27pm | #9

   Yes, insulating the concrete walls before backfilling would have helped, but it probably would not totally solve your problems. Insulation does not stop heat transfer, it slows it down only. The moisture you get is probably condensation, not leakage. A large dehumidifier could help in warm weather when outdoor humidity goes up while earth temps keep the walls and interior cool. If humidity is normally low where you live, keeping the doors open most of the time could help, but that is counterproductive for dehumidification. In winter, a dry heat source, meaning radiant & probably electric, should help. Just heating the air lowers relative humidity. I doubt that a lot of earth work or sealing will help unless there is a leak somewhere.This is a radical suggestion, but perhaps a portion of the garage could be partitioned off then insulated, heated, and cooled. For $500 - $600 heat pumps which fit through the wall or in a window are available. If you can live with a shop that size, it is your best solution and may not cost as much as your other options. Best of luck!!Cadiddlehopper

2. 
   Jfrostjr | Feb 03, 2007 04:58pm | #8

   "there aren't any cheap solutions and you will have to dig around the foundation and install footer drains and a gravel back fill."John,My below-grade, furnace room had a wall and cracked floor leakage problem. I contacted Insta-Dry Basement Systems (also may be known by simply Basement Systems). For about $2,500 they eliminated the problem - completely - in about 3 hours. I patronise a commercial establishment that had a similar leakage problem they had tried to fix, unsuccesfully, many times. I recommended Insta Dry and their problem was licked. (I even got $50 for the referral.)The procedure is to jackhammer, inside the house, the floor at the base of the wall about 2"-3" wide. They then install a plastic insert which intercepts both below-grade water and anything running down the interior cores of the block wall. This collected water is drained to a sump pump. It works! Frosty

2. 
   AlanWS | Feb 03, 2007 03:42am | #2

   Since you say the sealed wall is wet, my first thought was that humid summer air caused condensation when it hit the cool wall. The solution would be to keep it closed off as much as possible: airing it out would make it worse. But you say this is a problem in winter as well, when it is probably cooler outside (though you don't say where you are.) If the wall is wet when it's warmer than the air coming to it, the water must be coming through, and the suggestion about drainage is important. If the water table is high enough that water comes up through the floor, a real solution (drainage path and sump pump) would be much more expensive.

   In most of these cases, heating your tool cabinet with a light bulb will prevent condensation there, but will not protect stationary equipment.

3. 
   tinkerer2 | Feb 03, 2007 05:36am | #6

   It is often hard to know how to fix the problem if you don't know exactly what is causing it.  John had some good points.  If you have to dig, it gets more expensive.  Before you do anything, make sure the grade is away from the basement and that no drains are directed towards it.  I had problems with a couple basements and in each case when I dug them out I found a gutter drain broken under ground.  In each case, I continued digging to the footing, put a foundation film on the wall and backfilled with gravel.  Some people bring the gravel clear up but I always leave room for top soil on surface.  Although I have never tried treating the walls from the inside, I never had faith in that process either.  When I built my barn, I found a wet weather spring right at the bottom of the footing on the deep side.  I probably should have put the perimeter drains at the bottom of the footing but raised them some.  I don't seem to have a problem.  Tar is fine but I strongly recomment using the film clear down past the footing.  Any kind of spring should draw your attention and utmost care.

   
   

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   Edited 2/2/2007 9:45 pm ET by tinkerer2

4. 
   highfigh | Feb 03, 2007 08:05pm | #10

   As long as the walls can be colder than the humid air, there's no way to keep them from getting wet and as long as outside air can get in, there's no way to keep condensation from occurring if nothing is done to remove the humidity. You can, however, insulate the walls from the inside. That, along with a heavy-duty dehumidifier, will make a big difference as long as the outside air can't get in easily. The fact that you park a vehicle inside makes it more difficult but as long as the temperature doesn't go too low, the moisture in the air won't condense immediately. Keep the metal covered when it's not being used, make sure the dust collection is as complete as possible and make sure that any large temperature changes occur over a longer period of time.

   "I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."