I have 240 bd ft of cherry that has been stored above my shop (unheated) in the attic. It had been there for 15 – 20 years. I had it kiln dried probably 15 years ago give or take a few. I decided to use it for new kitchen cabinets. I took it to a lumber mill for planing and sanding. They said it was giving them problems on there sander, damaged a belt, so they just planed it to size 1/2″ and 3/4″. I purchased a new Wagner moisture meter and checked the moisture content, it is 10% to 12% on average. I checked for caseharding based on a FWW article in issue 120. It does not seem to be casehardened. Now I am concerned about using this wood in a large kitchen project. I know wood should be around 6% to 8% for furniture projects. I wonder if sticking and stacking this wood in my shop would help to bring down the moisture content, how long would it take? The temperature is more controlled there.
Anyone with a similar experience?
Replies
There's a lot of missing info in your message (did it air dry before kiln?; what sort of kiln? what were the rough sawn dimensions? what was the precise issue with the sander? was there really an issue with the sander that had anything to do with your wood?etc. etc.). But the bottom line is that you want to know whether you can use the wood on your cabinets. If the wood was dried poorly, it will, it will cup, warp, twist, etc. when you begin working with it. You may as well just go ahead and rip some of it and see how it behaves. As for the moisture, 10% may be about normal if it was stored outside more or less (at 15 years old, there's no way it has any of it's original moisture in it). It should be stickered and permitted to acclimate to your shop no matter where it came from for at least a couple weeks.
How has it reacted to the planing? If not casehardened (under uneven stress), the wood should be fine.
It was air dried before I purchased it, I do not know how long, couple years maybe? It was rough sawn to 4/4. Average board width was 10" to 12". Boards are 10' long. I was told the sander belt clogged or burnt to the point of needing replacement, the work was performed by a reputable, knowledgeable company, Keim Lumber. I had each board ripped in half by Keim prior to maching. I had it planed to 3/4" plus 1/32" left for sanding. I have not attemted any cutting yet. All the boards are straight and flat. It does not seem that any of the boards warped when Keim ripped them. When initial rough sawing was done some of the boards were thin, under 4/4, I had these planed to 1/2" to be used for panels in the cabinetry.
All that sounds like your wood is in good order. I'm not expert on huge industrial sanders, so I have no insight into what the shop meant when they suggested that your wood was somehow responsible for the belt burning out. Maybe it was an old belt or the operator set the sander to take too much off at once or fed it too fast. I dunno, but the fact that your wood is now surfaced and has been ripped without significant cupping or warping is an excellent sign in my experience.
Here's a decent article about moisture.
http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base/Woodworking_101_The_Basics.html
Maybe the a few percent too moist gave teh sander problems? Do you live near a coast (as mentioned in the article)?
Edited 10/26/2007 5:20 pm ET by Samson
Thanks for your insight!
Didn't see your last question...I live in Ohio.
so I have no insight into what the shop meant when they suggested that your wood was somehow responsible for the belt burning out. I'd bet y tried to 'hog' off the surface.. As in time is money.. Very easy to tell the 'customer' it's THEIR fault!However, I could be wrong.I will make one comment though on wood stored for long periods. I had some but the 'sticks' were just piled on top of each other in a attic where it got VERY hot and very cold over many years. Not sure how long. It was my grandfathers 'sticks' and I'm old!Chestnut or maybe Buckeye? I'm not sure. The planks were not very wide but seemed like they turned into IRON! I would cut it and set aside and it did all sorts for crazy things in a day or two and even while cutting it.From my experience with that wood, I would rough cut that wood (trim later) and see what happens. What do you have to loose? I'd say nothing if it has not been used in 15 years...
"I was told the sander belt clogged or burnt to the point of needing replacement..."
Since you're using Keim Lumber, I guess you're in Ohio?
It's not entirely unheard of to get some burning with cherry. Could it be that the person doing the sanding was being too aggressive? If all they've worked with is maple and oak, they might not realize that cherry requires a lighter touch.
Do you have a bandsaw? If so, take a piece and resaw it down the middle (that is, with the board on edge) about 8" into the board. By the manner in which the two "flaps" behave after the cut, you can get some idea of the moisture distribution, case-hardening, etc. If they cup together, closing the kerf at the top and bottom, that's a sign of case hardening.
-Steve
Did that, absolutely no cupping.
By the manner in which the two "flaps" behave after the cut..Good reply! Why did I not think of that!
No expert, here, but what comes to mind is the importance of the humidity of the environment the cabinets will be in. If you sent this wood to someone, say, in the Arizona desert, they might have to let it season awhile. But I would think if you're building your cabinets in roughly the same environment the wood's been stored in for the last umpteen year, there shouldn't be any problem.
Thanks for your input. The general consesus so far is similar to your comments.
John,
I hope that you can accept this in the spirit it's intended. I do tend to speak like a dutch uncle at times so I come across as cantankerous. I don't mean to be.. But it might sound that way because I don't take the time to be gentle always..
You know that wood should be 7 % moisture to build furniture? Why, because you read it?
Wood should have all the bound water released and sometimes that means it gets down to 7% moisture.. but if the rest of the wood in your shop were tested you'd find that hey, it's around 10% moisture!
drying wood for 15 to 20 years means all the bound water has been released and now it's aclimitizing to the conditions in your home..
The non-sense they gave you about your wood being the cause of their problems is just that.. their mistake.. they are trying to cover their butt!
"drying wood for 15 to 20 years means all the bound water has been released and now it's aclimitizing to the conditions in your home"
And I'm going to have to talk to you, er, how shall we say, uhm, yes, cantankerously Frenchy. The reason for that is that you provided some, well, iffy information, ha, ha.
Wood at 7% MC still has bound moisture in it. The only wood that has neither free water or bound moisture in it is wood at 0% MC. If moisture can be detected in the wood by, for example, testing it with a moisture meter or by conducting an oven drying test to establish the MC then, by definition, there is moisture in the wood.
On the other hand the rest of the information you provided on how wood behaves as atmospheric relative humidity changes is essentially correct. Wood gains and loses moisture in response to changes in atmospheric relative humidity (RH) in an effort to seek its EMC (equilibrium moisture content) with the RH conditions it finds itself in. However, as you pointed out, RH changes all the time so wood is always adjusting to suit and seldom reaches EMC. In other words, there's always, except in exceptional circumstances, a moisture gradient within any piece of wood. Slainte.Richard Jones Furniture
Thanks for your comments! I tend to agree with your last statement about the sanding problem. I think someone was unfamiliar with working cherry. But their comments did make me think the wood was casehardened...which is not the ahhh,case.
" I think someone was unfamiliar with working cherry. But their comments did make me think the wood was casehardened...which is not the ahhh,case." And, ahhhh, casehardening -- as nasty as it may be -- stops short of, ahhhh, reaching out and biting sandpaper. ROFL. (It will, however, set it's jaws firmly upon a saw blade, given half a chance.)forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Cherry burn very easy. I doubt that even a large comercial shop has that much experience belt sanding solid cherry. I dont think that you should have aasked to have it belt sanded, you are still going to have to sand it after assembly.
10 to 12% is a little high, but it will not cause warping or cupping. Just make sure you anticipate the panels shrinking a bit.
Pardon my spelling,
Mike
Make sure that your next project is beyond your skill and requires tools you don't have. You won't regret it.
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