Question, how do you get more work? Currently I get everything from word of mouth. But I would like to be busier. I just don’t know how to find the jobs/customers. I Currently do anything people ask for, and that has been very enjoyable. I have made a few things and tried to sell them, but had no luck. I don’t have the place to store things or a store to put them. Any suggestions on finding more customers?
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Way back in the 1980s and 90s when I started my woodworking business I did one home show a year. I would build a small section of a kitchen, I think it was a 6' base with doors and drawers and 2 wall units. I put a sign on them at the show saying they were for sale when the show ended, and I always sold them. And more than once I got projects from the people who bought those display units. The one show always got me at least 6 kitchen projects, one year I think I got 12-13. In general it worked out schedule-wise, with some customers wanting something soon, and others just planning their new house or renovation. For a few years I partnered up with a friend who built timber frames. We split the cost of a 10'x20' booth, with my cabinets in his display timber frame. In Vermont we have something called Front Porch Forum, a community forum: lost dogs, used tires for sale, "those damn politicians" posts, and ads for goods and services.
Without knowing more about what type of work you are talking about and your skill level, even the country you live, it's hard to provide specific advice. Building a set of bookshelves for the kids playroom is a far cry from undertaking a commission for a Queen Anne's Highboy replica. Few small shops have the space and ability to take on custom kitchen cabinets, not to mention it's a rapidly shrinking market when competing with corporate cabinet manufacturers and usually a losing battle.
Tell us more about what you do and where and we may be able to offer better guidance, other than to say get a web page, join Facebook, Houzz.com, etc but the simple fact is outside the smallest of towns most people start shopping online so you need to have a presence there.
I have a small, but decent shop with room to expand if I had the work to justify it. I am not into building with hand tools like hand planes and hand saws. I have decent power tools, but not high end stuff. I have been slowly doing more and nicer work the last few years. I have also been getting wood from a local saw mill for better selection and price. Been working at wood working about 6 years as more of a hobby. I would like it to be more of an income than hobby and with my wife working now, that is an option.
I have done several dining sets, multiple tables. Just finished a kitchen about a month ago. I have done a bunch of other things, shelving to China cabinets, bathroom medicine cabinets.
I don't think of myself as professional, but better than beginner. I know I have much to learn, I just don't know how to get more work. I do have a Facebook page, but it's very small in followers, mostly people I already know.
I live in Michigan, near Grand Rapids, so there is money in the area. But who should I connect with? How do I get my product out there? How do others do it?
I advise you to read Pantalones868 post. The career you are talking is as much a labor of love and passion as it is a job. My personal path was a bit different but it started out with a grandfather who was a custom cabinet maker and a true craftsman and even he found that to feed his family he had to gradually morph into a remodeling business with only occasional custom work. This evolved over 3 generations to being a kitchen bath remodeling company that relies on corporate produced cabinets and little custom work. The simple fact is more Americans are likely to think Ikea is quality furniture than pay a fair price for custom work. If after all this you still want to pursue this, my first advice is to try and get a job in an established shop and hone your skills and understanding of the business while developing your contacts.
If you insist on stepping out on your own on this journey. I will restate you should develop an online presence but other sources could be interior decorators, realtors, home shows focused on home improvement, not craft shows, but these are expensive to get into, local custom builders can also be a possibility. Only you know your skill level, but most hobbyists and part-time woodworkers are far from master craftsman so don't shoot for the stars too soon. It is real difficult to overcome a bad reputation if your work is not up to the standard your client was expecting. Start with jobs within your comfort zone and expand your scope of work as your skills and experience grow. My last bit of advice is understand your true costs when bidding on jobs. Most businesses fail because they fail to price their work properly. Your costs are a lot more than the wood and hardware you purchase for a project. Electricity, heating and ac, water, consumables like screws, solvents, sandpaper, rags, gloves all cost money. Last but not least you MUST pay yourself calculate a reasonable hourly wage into all your estimates or you will quickly realize that you are in a losing game. Profit is what's left after you pay all expenses and your wages. Profit is what gets reinvested into better tools or larger shops it is not what feeds your family.
Hummm....theres a forum like that where I live...I kind of dropped out of that,I couldn't stand the whining!
Somehow as a young person I got these romantic notions about being a woodworker. I excelled in woodshop in high-school, maybe that was it. Did a little stint in artschool where I learned that they can teach you a lot about art but they can't teach you art. Anyway it was a good place to duck the draft,turn on, tune in etc.
Did a couple of turns working in shops . I decided that I was going to move to the woods. That's where the wood is after all! I bought a little 45 acre forest in West Virginia, a small fortune for me at the time of $2500. I rented an abandoned farmhouse nearby. I put together a small shop ,mostly handtools - a bowsaw can do what a bandsaw does and it hangs on my wall to this day. Eventually putting together some pretty raggedy machines. I did some craft fairs occasional carpentry or stacked hay bales! I managed to get some stuff in the Philadelphia Show and from there Rhinebeck and it was a major PIA. You packed all this stuff up had to make up a nice display. It cost money and if you got out of there with a few hundred dollars you were lucky. Some people live for those shows. What you did get out of it was ideas and some connections. A guy who had a gallery in Philadelphia took a couple of pieces. I got a commission or two.
What I discovered was I had no money. Im living in an area where no one else has any money either. I'm broke,I'm out of food,the trucks giving me trouble and I have nothing to feed the dog! I mean here I am making tables and chairs sitting on folding lawn chairs eating off one of those giant cable spools! I'd flee to Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, New York . Now that I knew some people in the business I would get a call maybe or i would beg. Guys who needed help on projects they were doing. I'd go. I eventually connected with some designers and architects. Designers design they don't build. One designer in particular in Pittsburgh gave me a fair amount of work. Whole themed store interiors that I would pre build with the intention that the store ,like a clothing store maybe ,could close Saturday night ,all the merchandise removed and stashed on trucks, the place gutted and remodeled and hopefully ready to reopen Monday morning. I don't think it ever happened that way but he came close.
There was this one guy though in NY. I don't know how he did it, really talented woodworker with lots of ideas. He would blow into NY and had some kind of inroads to mid Manhattan/ Hamptons people and he knew how to smooze. He would line up a bunch of commissions put together a shop seemingly out of thin air. He would hire some guys and burn 24-7 for a few months or a year making one off pieces of furniture. He'd then throw the whole thing away and disappear to India or Japan or someplace for a couple of years. He'd come back and do the same thing again! I did a stint with him for a short while. He gave me a lecture on " looking" that was one of the best pieces of advise I ever got! The other thing I got out of it was there was a really great advantage to be where the money is!
I'm about 23 /24 at this point. Getting a few logs off my property. That region in the Appalachians probably has more diversity of flora than anywhere in the US or maybe even anywhere. North meets South there. Highlands and lowlands. I slugged away always hand to mouth, met a girl...there's always a girl -and a few years later if we had ever got married I guess you could call it a divorce. I learned then what community property means. One of you ends up with the community and it wasn't me!
Time to see the world! I handed her the dog and came out West. Tried my hand at working at a boat yard to discover that you never want to work on boats! Now that I'm around boat people I got a spot on a big ketch and got a ride around the South Pacific eventually getting to New Zealand. Picked up some woodworking and carpentry jobs there ,oh, and an Australian girl! Eventually on to Australia with the girl -more woodworking and carpentry- built a Piggly Wiggly in Alice Springs ,and stopped in Perth, found a job at a cabinet shop. We then headed off to Asia for a couple of years then Europe and found work in Amsterdam then back to West Virginia.
In my absence something happened, MARIJUANA ! Now people had money! Got my now very old dog back and my shop up and running and hand to mouth was getting by. Picked up a client, more or less a patron ,who was not a grower,he was a dealer! He carried gym bags of money. The Australian girlfriend, now wife, is not crazy about WVA. No beaches , long gray winters . What ended it though was all those clients decided to vacation in Federal Prison and most of my work ended up belonging to someone named RICO!
So, the new plan was to pick the new spot. Where are the potential clients?Where's the money? California,got a beach and eucalyptus trees ,wife can feel at home. So ,got out here, plopped ourselves in the middle of movie stars and rockstars and now tech billionaires in a rented house by the beach that we eventually bought. Raised kids. Put together a pretty good shop. Still did lots of work for designers and architects so a big bunch of my work was without credit but always a check! I had my own clients as well and when your working in your woodshop and people start asking you about your "studio " you can charge more. The plan all in all worked!
So, if you do this you have to figure that a 100 hour work week is like a vacation. After you procure materials,maintain your 10000 tools, shop cleaning, books and 100 other things like thinking and drawing up a plan then you can pretend that you completed that project in 40 hours! What you make has a market value and has nothing to do with the time you invested. You can't spend money when you have it because it's inconsistent and there are dry spells. Wives hate that! You have to be a self starter 'cause nobody cares and nobody is watching! There is a reason why so many of the big name woodworkers teach and write books, because otherwise they would be hand to mouth too--- all 12 of them! A friend and near neighbor was one of those,one of the biggest,most revered iconic names in woodworking. National Treasure, in all the major collections and lived and died pretty close to a pauper,so prepare!
I did make a living,bought a home,raised and educated my kids. There were some really good years ,some not so good but I did make a living.California can giveth but it takes it away so what I made here might sound like a lot to someone in someplace like oh,i dont know,West Virginia. A couple of years ago I realized that a lot of my inferstructure and client base was drying up. Well not so much drying up as cremated! That coincided with the increase in gravity from 14 pounds per square inch to 18 and a couple of other factors as well , like plague, so I retired,sort of. I still work everyday but only on what I want. I still have the woods....
So…… you’ve just laid out what this poor young guy can expect for the rest of his life? :-)
That was really good. You could always write for a living.
“[Deleted]”
Marketing is tough. It can be up to 30% of expenses for a direct to consumer business. It tends to have low ROI overall. Some forms of marketing are better than others. Some are worthless. Most online advertising is very low ROI, but you have to have an online presence. Think of it as the modern phonebook listing.
I do not run a woodworking business, but I do run a business and I frequently find that I get more bang for my buck by marketing to people who refer clients to me. For a woodworker, that would be builders, architects, and designers. People ask these types of people for references/referrals for wood shops. They are also the people who need custom work done. Many projects can be done with non-custom items from large manufacturers, but there are always parts of a project that need custom items. Architects are really good at designing for stuff that doesn't exist. Builders have to find people to make said stuff.
It can take years to build up these referral networks, but if you treat them well, they will build your business.
I don't do trade shows, but they would also be a good option since everyone who goes to a trade show is likely looking for stuff you make. Michael Fortune has written articles on how he manages trade shows. It might be a good read if you are moving in that direction.
Location is everything. Also, a partner with a solid job….
I have a good friend (like a second dad to me) who runs a woodworking business for now 20 years. We are close and talk a lot and I knew him before he started the business. Almost all of his work comes from word of mouth from prior customers. He now works longer hours than when he had a salary based day job and cash flow can be a struggle. He loves what he does.
I dont have any explicit advise for how to find more work, as I've always relied on word of mouth. However, here are some suggestions for your work path forward:
1) Word of mouth has its risks. The general understanding is that one unhappy customer requires 10 happy ones to balance out the damage. Unhappy people are more likely to broadcast their displeasure more widely and vigorously than happy people.
2) You could consider offering your established customers a referral credit for sending you a new customer. This has two benefits: it gets you new customers, and it encourages established customers to think about you, and even to dream up a new project for themselves (gotta use that credit, after all!)
3) One way to get more work is to be able to do more things better than the average woodworker. If you can only do basic work, you are competing with guys who are going out of business but don't know it yet.
4) In order to do more types of work, you will need to be versatile with hand tools. No, I'm not a romantic! I have a very nice collection of restored industrial machines (26" planer, 24" jointer, 36" bandsaw, 2 spindle shaper, etc.) However, being able to use both machinery and hand tools when appropriate gives you a competitive advantage over the one-sided guys. When I was starting, I used only hand tools for the first two years, while buying some of the first machines. But I knew I wanted to be able to make whatever i wanted, and that meant being able to use hand tools.
5) Get more familiar with geometry, so you can incorporate curves and angles into your work. It's not easy these days to make good money making rectangular plywood boxes. If you haven't already, get comfortable with making patterns and using a router & trimmer bit to shape pieces.
6) As a general business practice, keep your overhead as low as possible. My overhead is my electric bill. I built my shop myself with money I had saved up, and paid cash for all my tools and equipment. No rent, no interest to the bank for a loan. Major competitive advantage to many other woodworkers.
7) Learn to deal with a very lumpy cash flow. I take a small deposit (a bit bigger than cost of materials) and get paid upon delivery. Next delivery might not be for quite a while. If you can't manage your money, life can be very stressful! If your wife has a steady income, that can be very helpful.
8) As to your original question, the best way is to grow a bit slowly (I call it organically) by getting your work out there to happy customers. And pay attention to how this shift to more work and professionalism actually works for you. Some people don't do well with the performance and time pressures that come with the new level of work.
If you are interested in what this level of work can look like, check out my business facebook page, Dunmire Hollow Woodshop.
Good luck!
A relative who is a professional and full time illustrator has for years purchased mailing lists of individuals in publishing and related roles. Every three months she uses a service to do a mass glossy post card mailing to them because that’s how publishers and editors find new sources. The card is about 4” x 6” as I recall. Several hundred names each time but her marketing is all of North American while yours would be closer to home I’m sure.
Maybe do the same with architecture and design firms within 75 miles?? Photos of commissions on the front of the card with more on your web site.
Need to keep it on a schedule to stay in front of the audience though. One won’t be enough.
One can have a very very successful business without social media - but it is something to consider. E.g., I live in a somewhat small town that has a Facebook page. Every other day someone posts a request for some type of tradesperson. There are usually 20 or more replies with info. Often the ones that have been used the most get their name listed more in those replies - which is a big value so far as name recognition goes. Tradespeople as well will from time to time post images of their work etc.
No personal experience in woodwork sales but I've been interested in marketing for years. I do a fair bit of skin surgery and find that talking with people about skin almost always results in an inquiry. I have more work than I can handle so have to pass most of them on.
Somehow you need to have an audience for your portfolio and a means by which you get higher quality clients. As to how to attract them, well that will depend on what you want to be doing.
Matt Estlea runs a youtube channel - he made 1000 marking knives. His video was released on 1/8/22 I checked just 5 days later and every single one is sold. I'd estimate his profit per knife to be about GBP 50 (approx USD 60) and they probably took about 10-20 minutes each to make. USD 60K in maybe a month. If you have an audience, showing them what you are making and selling it is good. Building that audience though, is hard.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXyhhtNUgiM
If you like making smaller things, a stall at a community fair is a good option. I have been on 2 courses now because my wife liked the sort of thing a woodworker was doing and arranged for me to have lessons with them. This got me in to wood-turning.
Meet with other woodworkers - we all have different skills. Networking is a way to increase your visibility - if you are able to do something when work is turned away by another, then you both win.
Consider a website and pay for google adwords. If you are clever, you should be able to get a fair bit of coverage for what you produce. Show a portfolio of your work and maybe even offer free plans. Someone who gives away plans must surely bee a good woodworker.
I have made a few contacts in the local community through a facebook page for locals. I get given a lot of free wood for turning and mulching. It's well worth getting known near where you live as the one who can fix things. Word of mouth is exponential and before you know it you'll be inundated - whether it's with what you want or not is another matter...
Consider doing work for free - give a piece away to a raffle or community auction - a really good option if you have a high-fees school near you as the parents have money and appreciate finer things.
If all else fails, there's the community maildrop.
If you feel strongly about some cause and you wish to donate then by all means do, but otherwise don't give your work away! Your compensation for your work is what determines your worth. Free doesn't say a lot about you. Besides they'll only come back and ask you again and they'll expect it! Then every other fund raiser will be at your door! I'm certainly willing to help a friend,got a heavy object to move,need some help getting your boat in the water? Set up chairs at a fund raiser. No problem! Do what I do to make a living for free! Hows that work?
I don't know what your hopes and aspirations are for your woodworking but I think it's harder now then it was 50 years ago. It was a big deal for a furniture company to put out a line of furniture. Because of the process and set up they had to commit and most were limited to producing a traditional line and then maybe a whatever is popular at the time line. Change up took time and planning. If someone wanted different they had to find a Sam Maloof or a Nakashima or a least the local equivalent. With the technology now it is possible to make limited runs of a design,it's very fluid and it can be profitable! and......it's global! You really are competing with Milan! It wasn't that way before. While everyone says that you need an online presence , its everyone elses online presence that is killing your local business. In every country south of the border ,in Asia, Europe of course there are woodworkers. In some places whole towns of woodworkers. Maybe just doing traditional work in their local style for centuries. But now in literally all of those places there is some expat or gringo or whatever you want to call them that has set up shop. They have people with skills and exotic materials at their fingetips and many are producing good and sometimes superior work. Because these places had little in the way of inferstructure now that they have it its brand new state of the art! Particularly just about anywhere in Asia!
What is going to make you or break you is your ability to create ideas and your skill and ability to produce quality. You have to find a clientele that recognizes the difference and will pay for that. The work, if good enough, will get them to you or you to them. It will be most likely be by word of mouth. A lot of my work came to me by way of people in other trades,not mine. Stone masons ,or floor installers doing work for someone and in their conversations with their client the client would ask " do you know someone?" Clients are my best source of clients by far! My attempts at advertising never really produced much as far as I could tell.
Some of my clients actually do know quality. They don't even know they know it. They grew up in gilded age houses ,rode palomino ponies, and that was a real Rembrandt on the wall, they traveled to Paris for their school clothes and carried them back in Louie Vuitton luggage! Quality is all they've ever known. These people want to be perceived as just like everyone else. As a result they are the nicest and easiest to do work for but you have to bring your best game. Oh, and gay guys..... in both cases they want nice things, have taste,know they cost and appreciate what your doing. The hard ones are the ones who somehow got wealthy, they need for you to think they are important,think they know everything and think that everyone is trying to get over on them. They complain bitterly about what the gardener charges to mow their lawn while they pour themselves a $500 shot of scotch!
If your intention is to produce studio type furniture or crafts you need a draw because it takes time and low rent to build that up! That or marry well! People put alot of and in some cases ALL their money into their houses. Since there is virtually no training in the construction trades contractors often don't have anyone in their employ that can cut a difficult set of stairs or a complicated roof. Better houses often have something designed, a "featurette " I call it. Something impressive and expensive looking. If you can do or learn to do any of that they'll come calling. I've done many "featurettes"!
Spam revival
mj, out of curiosity, what does Spam revival mean? I've seen it used here when old threads become active again so I get what the term implies. Just curious on the more specific meaning.
Someone posted spam, an ad, or the like. MJ removed it. So that folks won't scroll up and down the page looking for a new post, he let's us know it was just spam.
With all due respect, I'd like to know this too as I'm not particularly computer literate. On my computer it always seems like its revived by your comment about spam revival. Are you seeing something that disappears with your comment?
As John said, I have a very limited "moderator" status, the limit being that all I can do is tag posts as spam, which removes them. When I do the thread still stays in the top 6, so I post "spam revival" to try and save everyone the effort of searching for the new post that put it back on top.
Got it. Very helpful. Thanks John C2 and mj
My thanks too.
Supply creates its own demand. Build some stunning work on spec and then sell it. If it’s good it will sell. Then you’ll create a reputation and following.
Most successful bench woodworkers have a spouse who pays the real bills, provides major medical coverage through their employer, etc. etc. You’ll no doubt notice a lot of “big name” woodworkers have a heavy teaching load at their own or other woodworking school. Tough to make a living on pure, commissioned furniture - mortgage, car payments, medical insurance, kids' braces, tuition, food, etc., etc.
Some woodworkers you'll see around, in FW and elsewhere, who seem to be able to indulge every artistic whim whilst living a rural idyll are the lucky recipients of inherited wealth - either theirs or their spouse's. Imagine going into your shop every day and not having to worry about bills - spend as much time working wood as you wanted. You'd be one hell of a woodworker too. You could buy any tool you wanted, waste as much wood as you needed to learn a technique. Take a year and a half off to build your dream shop. It would be wonderful. But it's not reality for the other 99.99%
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