Replies

1. 
   chairmake1 | Jun 20, 2003 07:34pm | #1

   I do not have any expersnce with a horizontal unit - but -

   I have had the Powermatic 719A for the last several years and have put it to the test on several occ. - It have worked me into the ground several times when a had more than 700 mortises to do at a time - It does not care if you want a 1/4" or a 3/4" mortise it

   just glides throught the work that you put in front of it.

   The table is still tight and the stops work very well. I would not give up this piece of equipment from my shop!! I just don't think you could go wrong with this model. It's the strong - silent type.

   Robert

1. 
   musick | Jun 20, 2003 08:10pm | #2

   How long does it take you to unclamp a piece, clamp a new piece and drill a mortise, requiring, say 5 strokes? Also, have you had any problem with your work moving slightly on the up stroke. Someone told me that a clamp design with a downward angle was a better design than one with a level clamp design as on the powermatic. Doesn't seem that big of a deal if the threads don't have a lot of play and the operator screws it plently tight. What's your experience been?

1. 
   chairmake1 | Jun 20, 2003 08:36pm | #4

   ahh . . five strokes would be about a 2" wide mortise if you had a 3/8" chisel in the machine and acutally I can't tell you the amount of time it takes to do one mortise - but - before this machine I had a Jet bench top and what a sweet little machine it was, but what use to take me 1 1/4 hr. I now do in 20mins.

   Now . . the hold down clamp in put in place by an acme screw and I can remember twice I did not enough pressure on the workpiece and when I extracted the chisel the end of the board did move. So - I guess I'm saying that you really need to put a grip on it and twist the wrist to lock the workpiece in place.

   A couple weeks ago I picked up a couple of small air cylinders from a friends place and when I have the chance I'll install one of them along with a foot pedal to replace the acme screw. That'll take care of that little sucker!!

2. 
   tufenhundel | Jun 20, 2003 08:33pm | #3

   Doug:

   I don't have any real experiences with vertical mortisers, nor brand name horizontal units neither.

   BUT, I faced the same decision sometime ago and decided to obtain a horizontal version.  It is more flexible, and can serve other purposes.  I can easily cut angled mortises.  I don't do production work, just one-of, so the horizontal machine solves a lot of problems.  It's probably slower than a dedicated vertical machine, but gives a cleaner mortise. 

   I am in tune to production time, but for this machine, versatility beats the slight time advantage.  Anyhow, I think the time is offset by the fact that I use a lot of loose tenon joinery.  Try cutting a slot on the end of a stile with a vertical mortiser....

   I eyeballed the Multi-Router for a long time, but couldn't justify the cost.  So I wound up making one, with features that I wanted.  I've never regretted doing that.

1. 
   k9s | Jun 21, 2003 03:30am | #5

   Tufenhundel--care to share any details on your shop made horzontial mortiser?--Bruce

1. 
   patricks13 | Jun 21, 2003 04:01am | #6

   I just bought a machine that I am going to turn into a horizontal mortiser. It's a 1923 Brown & Sharpe tool cutter grinder for $150. The automatic table motor is gone but that doesn't matter. I am going to mount a router to the grinding head. The table pivots 45 degrees in both directions and it has a nice scale. I like loose tennon jointery for a number of reasons. As opposed to most metal working machines this one should do well with saw dust because it is well shielded from grinding dust.

    

   I am going to make jigs to sharpen my chisels, jointer and planer blades.

2. 
   tufenhundel | Jun 21, 2003 08:09am | #7

   k9s:

   This is my Frankenstein mortiser.  Two pairs for linear guide bearings were purchased on eBay.  The router carriage unit is basically an aluminum plate welded to 4 bolts, which are attached to 2 threaded rods.  The rods are attached via a chain and sprocket assembly so I could dial in the Y dimension.

   The real difficulty is making sure everything is square - through the whole range of motions.  I also over-engineered reinforcements to ensure it doesn't rack and flex.  Unfortunately, most of the reinforcements are not shown on these photos. 

   There is currently a lack of hold down device, I am investigating vacuum pods, or maybe pneumatic clamps.  Right now, I make jigs for each job (to index cuts, angles, etc.).  But in the future I plan on integrating it so I could just walk up to it, place, and cut....

   These are the pics I have on hand.  I could get further details if you are interested.

   
1. 
   k9s | Jun 21, 2003 08:30pm | #12

   Tufenhundel--thanks for sharing. The photos are clear.--Bruce

3. 
   rslatm | Jun 21, 2003 03:06pm | #8

   Get the Laguna/Robland horizontal slot mortiser
1. 
   Oregonboy | Jun 21, 2003 05:28pm | #10

   Rick,

   I would like to get a mortiser for my shop.  After some research, I believe the best way to go is a horizontal slot mortiser.

   I notice some horizontal slot mortisers have heads that can angle.  What is the benefit of this feature?

   Also exfactory has some horizontal slot machines... Invicta and Bini.  Any experience with these machines?

   Thanks,

   Larry

1. 
   rslatm | Jun 22, 2003 12:22am | #13

   Have used chisel, chain and slot mortisers in custom and commercial shops for over 30 years and the slot mortiser is the most efficient and versatile for production and custom one of a kind work. FWW #141 has the best do it yourself slot mortiser you can build cheap using drawer slides. Next up is the Laguna which is the mortiser that mounts on the combo machines. It comes with the chuck so you can use a motor instead of a router with by getting a few pillow block bearings and a shaft. We have a Griggio slot mosrtiser in our architectural shop and about 2 blocks where I live are a dozen or so woodworkers who all have slot mortisers from the Laguna, Multi-router, Rojek and commercial units such as SCMI, Bini, Holzher, etc. As you get past the basic models, for a few more bucks, tables that tilt are available. Nice to do angled tenon work and louvers. There's two ways of tilting tables as well.

   Frankly, I think the people who made the JDS multi router missed the whole point of the slot mortiser and the use of loose tenons. It seems to take the simplicity of the horizontal slot mortiser and make it complicated by adding unnecessary bells and whistles.

   Another option is to find an old handmill that takes collets. Most of them don't so it's a bit of a search. See the third picture down for what I'm talking about. These machines can often be had for scrap prices.

   http://woodcentral.com/shots/shot52.shtml

   The slot mortiser has been around since the 50's but so few woodworkers seem to know anything about them unless they have European training.

   Mortiser trivia question...Name the 5 types of machine mortisers. I'll give you the first three.

   1. Hollow Chisel

   2. Chain

   3. Slot mortiser

   4.

   5.

1. 
   Oregonboy | Jun 22, 2003 07:34am | #14

   Thanks for the followup.  I'll check out the FWW article.  Thanks. 

4. 
   blindau | Jun 21, 2003 05:27pm | #9

   Doug, I have a General International bench top hollow chisel mortiser and a Felder horizontal mortiser. I tend to use square mortises less frequently.  In the past I have owned  the Laguna horizontal mortiser. The Felder is bigger and stouter than the Laguna, although the latter was adequate. The Laguna uses your router of choice whereas the Felder comes with a motor, its chuck can take up to 3/4" shank. I know several people who have the Multi-router. In fact these people have sold their Felder mortisers to buy the Multi-router. It seems to be more versatile and has the option of pneumatic clamps.

   Bill Lindau

1. 
   musick | Jun 24, 2003 05:23pm | #16

   Thanks for all the replies so far. Now I'm wanting more info on the Multi-Router. Does anyone have a web page for it.

   Also on the Robland, Felder, Knapp and other similar units there is an option for a tilting head. Without ever having used one of these I'm assuming the tilt is front to back not side to side.

   Also I'm limited on options with my current shop to do tenons. I can do them on the table saw, but this is awkward on longer pieces. I can do them on the band saw which works good, but takes a little more time for setup expecially if I set a stop block to control the depth of cut.

   I looks like it would be fairly easy to cut tenons on a horizontal mortiser. Is this common, if not why? Is it because of the relativly slow RPM of many of thes machines?

1. 
   rslatm | Jun 24, 2003 06:42pm | #17

   The typical way is to use the  horizontal slot mortiser is with loose tenons and make mortises in opposing pieces. It's the fastest most efficient way to use it and that's how it was designed to be used. The idea was to eliminate  the process of making tenons. Typically it's the table that tilts  front to back allowing for angled tenons. Some have the option of tilting the table side to side for doing louvers.  The slot mortiser is relativlely unknown to most woodworkers.  Most people I know keep a supply of tenon material already planed to thickness. When you think about the simplicity of the loose tenon, it can't be beat.  Perfect alignment and if you want to set back an apron 1/4" just slip a shim under the appropriate piece.  HSS 2 flute endmills for machining aluminum work well, are relatively inexpensive and last a long time.

   http://mypage.uniserve.ca/~kristech/page18.htm

   Edited 6/24/2003 12:16:10 PM ET by Rick at Arch. Timber and Millwork

   Edited 6/24/2003 12:18:36 PM ET by Rick at Arch. Timber and Millwork

   Edited 6/24/2003 1:52:31 PM ET by Rick at Arch. Timber and Millwork

1. 
   Oregonboy | Jun 26, 2003 03:58pm | #20

   Rick,

   Slot mortiser follow up question.

   Are there any issues with milling a slot in the end of a long rail?

   Milling end grain?

   Supporting the rail?

   Thanks.

   Larry

1. 
   rslatm | Jun 26, 2003 04:49pm | #21

   No problems with end grain or long rails.  Nothing special required for support either, just the same height and have a slippery surface like laminate. Worked a job where we made a bunch of sliding screen doors where the rails were longer than the stiles for the most part. Our mortiser was a converted handmill.  I've found 2 flute HSS endmills worked best for the money giving hundreds of mortises before needing sharpening.  No problems with loose tenons either.  Loose tenons are endoresed by the Architectural Woodworking Institiue. They set the standards among the industry. 

2. 
   Oregonboy | Jun 27, 2003 06:49am | #22

   Thanks.

   FWW mortise test confirmed loose tenon strength. Not quite as strong as a standard tenon but right up there.  And a loose tenon joint is much easier to construct.

   Larry

5. 
   Oregonboy | Jun 21, 2003 05:34pm | #11

   Doug,

   I've been reviewing mortisers as well.   I remember an earlier post (FWW or Woodweb?) that described using a vertical mortiser to chop numerous mortises.  There were a lot of strokes used and a lot of work. 

   Also the ability to perform angled mortises is limited with at vertical machine. (Although there is an English machine that has an angled head)

   From my research, I think a horizontal slot mortiser would be a better choice.  Exfactory has some machines listed.

6. 
   theRev | Jun 22, 2003 08:46am | #15

   I asked this question a couple of weeks ago. I've decided on going with a horizontal type. Cruising the web, I came upon this machine, out of Australia. Since I am in Japan, it seems like a pretty good deal. Note that the price is in Australian dollars, which makes it a steal. The Laguna is a good machine too, but you need a router, or add your own motor, more expense.

   http://www.tama.com.au/LEDA%20Mortisers.htm

   scott

7. 
   Napie | Jun 24, 2003 07:16pm | #18

   I have a horizontal on my Robland combination jointer/planer.  That machine is the best woodworking too investment I have ever made.  It has it all in 12 square feet and change over is so fast!  I only use loose tennons, they are the best combination of true M/T and biscuits, strong and fast with easy lay-out.  HSS end mills work wonders.

1. 
   IronDog | Jun 25, 2003 03:09pm | #19

   I have the Rojek slot mortiser and am very happy with it.

   I think chisel mortisers are a bizarre solution to the given task and have never liked them.

   The Rojek has an induction motor unlike the Robland which gets a whining router attached to it. Much quieter operation.

   The clamp downs and table are heavy and the operation is smooth.

   Tom