Replies

1. 
   Westchester | Jan 18, 2012 02:53pm | #1

   Sanding

   Electric is fine - random or pad sanders both good. Don't use a sharper paper than you need for the task. Switch to smoother papers as you go and finish up by hand with the grain - there is no short cut to those steps.

   SA

2. 
   roc | Jan 18, 2012 10:21pm | #2

   Just don't do it.

   The more time you spend with these

   http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?sku=4

   The less time you will spend sanding.

   Sanding is for preparing the surface to paint cars and stuff not wood working.

   :   )

   The wood in the photos is bare and no sand paper at all just planed.

   
3. 
   Mcfarmer | Jan 19, 2012 10:10am | #3

   Your current sander is most likely good enough. Depending on what you are working on start with 80 grit, then 120 and maybe finish with 150 by hand . When starting out don't be afraid to push down a little on the sander, and go across the grain if there needs to be a lot taken off. Be careful and not leave any deep scratches as they will have to be removed later with finer grits. Get good quality paper, I use "sun gold". Good paper will work better and last longer and be cheaper in the long run.

   Don't stay in one place, depressions will form which are very difficult to takeout.

4. 
   RalphBarker | Jan 19, 2012 11:41am | #4

   I think you'll find at least two schools of thought with respect to surface prep - those who sand, and those who plane and scrape.

   Among those who use sandpaper, there are old-school people who advocate doing it by hand (like the Gibbs character on "NCIS"), and those who are more production-oriented and use electric sanders. Among the portable sanders there are (in order of aggressiveness) belt and rotary sanders, half-sheet orbital sanders, and 5" or 6" random-orbit sanders (ROS). Belt and rotary sanders can be destructive if one hasn't developed the skill to use them properly, but they can remove a lot of material quickly once you have the knack. Half-sheet sanders (once dubbed "finish" sanders) can work faster, and still produce a good finish by working through the grits. ROS tend to be the least aggressive, and thus "safer" as far as the surface is concerned.

   I still use a '70s-vintage Porter Cable half-sheet orbital finish sander that oscillates at 22,000 OPM, and it is fairly aggressive with 80 or 100 grit paper. It has no dust collection, though, so a good mask is really needed. The Bosch 1293D has fairly good dust collection, but is slower than the old PC sander (11,000 OPM versus the 22,000 OPM of the PC).

   But, I also use a 5" ROS (Festool ETS125EQ), which I like for smaller pieces and more careful finishing work.

   So, the choice is yours, depending on what you are making, and how you prefer to work.

5. 
   roc | Jan 20, 2012 01:58am | #5

   Got Sanders .

   Oh I probably don't have enough sanders

   Or the right kinds of sanders.

   That red Milwaukee half sheet sander sure is a sweet heart !

   And I can totally recommend the biggest Bosch belt sander with the adjustable handle.  Once I found the balance point all around I was in love.

   Stay away from that Craftsman half sheet.  It will vibrate the fillings out of your teeth and your junk out of your pants ( pockets ) .  Takes days to feel normal again after using it.  Of course I have never felt normal but I can imagine what it must be like .

   I probably should get a low angle bevel up sander.

   Or is it a middle pitch bevel down sander that I need ?  I never can keep this stuff straight

   Don't mind me.

   
6. 
   hammer1 | Jan 20, 2012 08:24am | #6

   The most effective way to sand is to do the minimum that is required. If your planer is sharp and set up properly, you may be able to go directly to a fine grit in a hand sanding block. There is no reason to start with coarse grits and progress to finer unless the surface is so bad that finer grits won't remove the problems without excess work. If I don't need power sanders, I never use them. You always need to hand sand after a power sander. If possible, skip the power and go right to the hand block.

   Cabinet scrapers are for hardwoods. They can easily leave marks if the edge isn't perfect and it won't be after a few strokes. They also cut into summer wood more easily and deeper than winter wood. A handplane will dull within a few strokes, too. Any reversing grain can be grabbed and chipped out. A planed surface looks real nice in the raw since it doesn't absorb as much light as a sanded/scratched surface but you will never know the difference between a planed and fine sanded surface once the finish goes on. A fine planed surface won't take stain as well as a sanded surface and finishes like polyurethane need something to microscopically grip to.

7. 
   roc | Jan 20, 2012 10:55pm | #7

   Hammer1

   Always the practical, thorough, highly experienced, considerate, leader of the pack.

   I learned some stuff thanks.

   Haleyclarethomas,

   There are a couple of commonly available types of wood that do dull tools quickly such as teak and some of my purple heart planks and bubinga many of those planks were not any extra hard on the blades.  In friendly woods such as walnut etc. a well sharpened plane blade can last for quite a long while.

   Reversing grain can, in any case I have come across and that is considerable, be easily dealt with by choosing an appropriate plane blade cutting angle and precisely sharpening the blade.  No prob there.  Absolutely no tear out.  It is surmountable except PERHAPS a few rare woods such as birdsey maple.  My purple heart and bubinga projects had tons of reversing grain and in every single case I was able to get a perfect surface (no tear out at all) off the planes; no scrapers needed.

   No tear out off a plane takes some learning and practice but look at it as a goal or a game.  I say all this because YOU said you hate sanding.  If you like sanding I wouldn't be wasting my typing.  It is the same using a power planer or a big belt sander.  Plenty of opportunity there to screw up the surface badly. Using those power tools to create a near flawless surface takes learning and practice and can be looked at as a goal or a game as well.

   Most high end cabinet makers use dies rather than stains so that may or may not be an issue for you.  It isn't for me.

   Keep in mind it is possible to get a bunch of shine on a plank from burnishing it with poor blades and that can cause the beading up of finish and glue etc.

   It is also possible to slice through the cells of the wood with a mirror polished blade that is not dubbed over and in that case finish penetrates, glue penetrates and stain I have no experience with except a couple of times in junior high crafts class.

   Planes are cool man (mam).

8. 
   DonStephan | Jan 22, 2012 11:56am | #8

   Sanding is . . . well, sanding.  I wouldn't expect a 6" to be signifcantly faster than an equivalent 5",  same for pneumatic versos electric.  There will be differences between makes and models. 

   First I'd focus on research to make your current sanding procedure as efficient as possible.  Any tips and procedure changes you incorporate there will be applicable to other options if you then think another method/tool would be faster.  Experiement on wood that will clearly show deficiencies such as rough areas, plywood veneer sand through, and swirl marks, and use a stain if necessary to highlight the results.  Grit schedule, manufacturer, interface pad, and more all affect speed and results as already pointed out.  Don't know if effective "through the sander" dust collection would improve efficiency, but I would expect so.

1. 
   roc | Jan 22, 2012 01:05pm | #9

   There is another thing to consider among many. Thanks Don

    >interface pad<

   Which is one reason I keep my old sanders or have more than one of the same type.

   There are firm felt pads and there are softer foam pads, sometimes more than one density, available for good sanders.

   As far as I can make out use the soft for curved/domed surfaces and the hard felt for getting rid of bumps/runs what not.

    

   As usual this is the point in the show I say . . .

    

   Dear person who started this thread . . .

   haleyclarethomas,

   Are you there ?

   Do you care ?

   What do you think about this or that ?

9. 
   JennAdams | Feb 01, 2012 10:02am | #10

   Thanks!

   Yes I am here and I do care! I have been traveling and had not had a chance to respond! Thanks to everyone for their helpful posts. I think you all have given me a lot of places to start with some more research. Mastering planing skills may be the way to go!

10. 
    CharlieL | Mar 07, 2012 03:59pm | #11

    Deleted