Hey fellas, I am selling my commercial property that houses my woodworking shop and moving into my detached garage at home. My problem is that I just dont want to make the same mistakes i made when I set up my existing shop. Does anyone have any advice for setting up the new shop. My equipment includes; Shaper, table saw, radial arm, small molder, 8in joiner, drill press, miter saw station,planer, dust collector, and etc. The new shop has 600 sq ft on the 1st floor and 600 on the second. I will add another 14 by 20 in place of the lean to. Do you think I’ll have enough space?
Here are a few pictures
Thank you Lou C
Edited 1/13/2007 8:57 pm ET by loucarabasi
Replies
Do you think I'll have enough space?
Nope! And trying to manage tools on two floors is very frustrating.
Cadiddlehopper
thanx, you could have lied. I think I will use the top floor for storage and make the addition bigger.
What do you think
Lou
Lou,It sounds as good as my arrangement which has to be just the opposite due to the building design. I'm certain that it is better than machinery on two floors. Give careful thought to how you will transfer material between the floors. I have a hoist and a stairway. The stairway is constricted at the bottom and a tight turn must be made at the top. Full plywood sheets pose the greatest problem.Cadiddlehopper
What do you make?
what do i make? Everything from kitchen cabinets to crown mold, residential bars, tv cabs, fireplace surrounds.
thanx Lou
<<what do i make? Everything from kitchen cabinets to crown mold, residential bars, tv cabs, fireplace surrounds.>>Sounds like your a pro, and should probably consider zoning issues as well, if you haven't already. It would be a shame to get all set up and have your town tell you that you can't run a business in a residential area. Zoning laws vary, and you may be fine, but I'd check first.Mike
Mike is correct about zoning issues. I'm on the local ZBA and we don't take into consideration the " I did not know " when the issue comes before the board.DJK
I have a remodeling business and I am scaling back shop work. I want to be closer to home and be able to build some things for myself. Not doing any retail work. I am the only employee. It will be nice to just go outside anytime I want to work. noise is not an issue no other houses for miles.
DKJ,
I have a zoning question for you if you'll help.... We live in a residential area in the county and it has restrictions, but is outside of any city limits. It has it's own restrictions filed when the residential plat was planned, and they automatically renew themselves every twenty years. It does not allow the lots to have commerical businesses.
Question: Can an Incorporated city come into the residential area, buy a lot and turn it into a dumpsite for gravel, dirt, black road repair mix and drilled a commercial water well used for their commerical water coop???... The city manager told me that because they are an Incorporated City, they are exempt from all the existing restrictions... Help.
Bill
Bill, I'm in Warren, MI and your in TX so the zoning enabling acts are different, very different. MI rewrote the ACT last year and made it much more easy for developers to "maximize their profit" by relaxing the previous regulations. Each state sets up a "land divisions act" as a guide for the counties, townships and cities. Each county and city set their own zoning regulations with a Master Plan. The Master Plan sets zoning districts along with zoning regulations and ordinances. You mention plat restrictions; here they are called Deed Restrictions and unless they are attached with the property deed, they are not enforceable by court of law.By your brief discription the city can not run a business in a R zoning. Cities can't break their own laws but they can bend them if no one puts up a stink. At least in MI they can't. Here we have the ZBA, Zoning Board of Appeals, which I am a member. The ZBA is a quasi-judital board with the athority to grant a variance on any zoning regulation. Our decision can only be reversed by circuit court action. Under the ZBA athority we can grant a Use Variance. Lets say there is a vacant parcel zoned R-1A, residential minimum lot size 90x150 on the conner of a main street and a residential street. The entire are is built with single family homes and the developer wants a commercial or retail use for the corner lot. He can apply for re-zoning to C-1 by going in front of the Planning Commission then going to City Council. This may take up to a year.An easier and faster method is to go in front of the ZBA for a Use Variance. They present their "hardship" to the nine member board and try to convince us that the parcel can't be used for any other purpose. We can approve or deney the request.Without knowledge of the zoning regulations in your area, I can't even guess how they can legaly get away with it. Look up on line or go the your planning department and look at the zoning map and master plan for that area. Find out if the parcel was re-zoned with out notice to the surrounding property owners or a land use variance was granted. Do some reserch of the ordinances. If something under the table took place, get the neighbors and storm city hall. Even better if it's an election year. Hope it's of some help.DJK
DJK,
Thank you for your time and experience... You've given me some information and direction to attempt to stop this action. It is right across the street from me... The lot is 185 X 210 and is in a water shed that feeds into a large city's water supply, so I did notify EPA over 30 days ago to get them to govern this....
It does burn me up when a city administrator can look you straight in the eye and say that the deed restrictions do not apply to them....
Thank you again,
Bill
Bill, in a lot of western states the "zoning", and deed restrictions don't apply to the counties or municipalities, under the theory that the elected government body, (City Council, County Commision, or whatever), has final authority on the issue. I worked for a large quasimunicipal water district. Under statute we were exempt from the zoning, because we answered to the elected officials who had the authority to change the zoning ordinances. Their direction to us was to go through the normal zoning process, and if we needed a variance to build or operate the system efficiently, they would give us what ever we could make a case for.
They always let us build what we needed to operate an efficient system. But they did make us do some screw ball and expensive things to keep the neighbors happy. I built a pump station and underground reservoir in a neighborhood of 4000 s.f. homes, that had a fake house on top of it, and the top of the reservoir camoflauged as a tennis court, complete with landscaping, and lights in the windows that turned on and off during the evening to give the apperance it was occupied. The neighbors didn't know it was a pump staton for six years, until the district's landcape maintenance crew was turned in to the government waste watchdog, of a local TV station. The reporter and cameraman spent a month photographing the crew working in the yard, and then ambushed our manager about it live and on camera. It was kind of funny to see the look on the reporters face, when the manager laughed and told her it wasn't a house, but a pump station, and we owned it. "Would you like a tour?" I still havent figured out why the bid price to build a hollow shell of a house, cost more than the houses in the same neighborhood.
If you are in an unincorporated area of the county, and outside of the city. The city may be controlled under county ordinance. Their officials have no authority outside their boundaries, and thus can't grant themselves variances. My experience is that the County government is usually pretty testy about a city doing things in their jurisdiction. Politicians as a group seem to be pretty territorial.
The issue of deed or platt restrictions is typically a contractual issue. That is a gray area I have no experience in.
Were I in your position, I would be calling my elected representative at the County.
Someone at a staff level probably knows what the city is up to, but it probably isn't known at the top. If yo are not happy with their response, respond in writing, and copy the political editor at the newspaper(s), and TV and radio stations.
You guys have scared me into going to the township this morning. I'm in agricultural zone I think I'll be ok. besides, I helped the local zoning officer finish a windsor chair. He's a nice guy I'm sure he can steer me in the right direction.
Can you guys please take the zoning topic to another disscusion. Thank you for you info but I'm looking for advice on making a smaller shop work for me.
Thanks, LMC
Personally, I don't think you can ever have too much shop space. Maybe, it's because I work out of 1,000 sqft. Yrs. ago I decided to build my shop next to the house and walk 10' to go to work. My only regret is to not have doubled the size when it was affordable. EarlFurniture...the Art of a FurnitureMaker
sorry for the detour, lou..... BUT even where I live, the zoning/ restrictions say "NO Commercial Businesses" on the property. If a neighbor or city adminstrator tried to site my hobby workshop as a business, they could make my life miserable as the city adminstrator would have the bully effect with deep pocketed lawer budget...
For you, doing all your shop planning work and brain drain would be for nothing if you had to move it out again. I had a neigbor that bought a house and extra lot, and then proceeded to bring his ulitity trailer business into the back yard. His employees looked like street people and the banging, grinding, and loud radio rock music was a nightmare until a lawer got involved!!! The restrictions caused him to shut down and as bad as it sounds, he went "Belly UP" with his business and home being forclosed on. His "get even" attitude to his neighbors was another nightmare.
Keep you neighbors happy and check your address for zoning/restrictions that are built into your property deed.
An idea for you. Buy one or two of those $120 "Harbor Freight/Northern Tool" 1,300 lb electric winches to make a hoist platform to lift the heavy or bulky material from one floor to the other. Good luck with your two story shop.
Bill
Edited 1/15/2007 12:18 pm ET by BilljustBill
Edited 1/15/2007 12:24 pm ET by BilljustBill
I used to have a shop on a second floor. There was living space below. It wasn't a terrific handicap for me then to be upstairs, but I was younger then. Today I think it would be a pain to schlep sheet goods up the stairs. Getting anything of decent size out and down was and would still be somewhat of a hassle. However I always consoled myself (and still would) by the fact that many things I made there were destined for and upstairs room somewhere. I figured that one more stair trip wasn't the end of the world. If you can rig a hoist then all the better. As for all the naysayers, just think about all the guys who have basement shops. They have to contend with difficult access and they don't have a view.
Zoning restrictions on what commercial activity, if any, is allowed in a residential or agricultural zoning district vary all over the place. I know of one city where a business is allowed as long as there are no employees, it doesn't disturb the neighbors, and there is not too much traffic generated by the business. Other cities say nothing is allowed though it can sometimes become difficult to define where a hobby ends and business starts.
Best bet is usually to get an up to date copy of the local zoning ordinance and read it. Don't count on whoever is behind the counter to know all the fine points nor to have even read the ordinance themselves. They may just repeat what they've been told. Of course if your interpretation is different than the administration you may wind up having to invest some time and money to establish your position is correct. And be aware that it can be misleading to take a couple of paragraphs of the code out of context, and also that sometimes legal terminology has a more precise meaning than what a casual reader might think.
I was supposed to meet with the zoning official today, we both forgot it was a holiday. so I guess i will talk to her tommorow. Can we get off the zoming issues for now please.
Thanks, Lou
I do understand if I have no employees I may be fine. If not I will go back to teaching full time.
It may well be that the key to the whole issue is your earlier comment - "I helped the local zoning officer finish a windsor chair. He's a nice guy." Many years ago I had a huge hangup buying my house because it had a garage apartment. Bank wouldn't lend because appraiser said 'duplex,' etc - And I heard 6 different stories - the problem was the 2 kitchen sinks, the problem was that the connection between the two was sealed, etc. Finally went to City Hall to read the zoning rules on 'duplexes' myself. Poring over the books, I ran into the owner of the local wine shop.
"Hi Fred, what are you doing here? Expanding the shop?"
"No, I sold the shop."
"Really? Then, what are you doing here?"
"I'm the new zoning officer."
And suddenly-like, everything got easier ... !
And, know that this is not an unmitigated diversion from your small-shop thread ...
Let me say that I envy you your bottom floor! Now, after 20+ years of tenants in that apartment, I have sent the most recent off to Johns Hopkins last week, and I am converting the apartment to a small home shop. For some years I have rented space at a commercial shop, but I tired of the long drive and other hassles. Now I have to start completely from scratch, machinery-wise. And, I am really gonna miss the 12' computer-fence sliding-table Altendorf, half-dozen 36" BSs, 16" jointers, 36" disk and wide-belt sanders, etc. Waaaahhhh!! But I won't mind trading the 45-minute drive for the 20-second walk, and I'm just a hobby shop. I would love to have just your ground-floor 30x20 space! I'm gonna squeeze into less than half of just your ground floor - 16x16, or 256 sq. ft. Wish me luck, I'll be searching the archives for small-shop trickery very diligently!
Clay
I'm also on a ZBA in Michigan, and while zoning laws varies by states there are some aspects which tend to be common. Note as you read the following that I'm not a lawyer.
Zoning regulations and deed restrictions are two different animals. Zoning regulations are put in place by a (generally local) government, and are enforced by the government. No one else has to be involved for a zoning regulation to be enforced, and in general private citizens can't readily enforce zone regulations on their own.
Deed restrictions were put in place by a former property owner (frequently a developer) when they sold the property. They are essentially private agreements, and governmental agencies and legislative bodies usually can't do anything to enforce them or change them. Usually who can be involved in enforcing or changing a deed restriction is quite limited; typically the previous property owners and other property owners whose properties are referenced in the restrictions (such as all lots in Sunnyside Acres subdivision). So for a restriction to be enforced someone with standing to do so has to take legal action and a court will generally be quickly involved; they can't just ask the city, etc. to do so. The validity and enforcibility of deed restrictions depends on a lot of factors.
Its not big enough.
There was a good article in FWW Tools and Shops a few years ago that recommended the use of a scaled drawing with scaled cut outs of your tools, bench, cabinets, etc. It will give you a good idea of how to best and most effeciently use your space. It's not hard to do and seems to be a great idea. If I'm ever fortunate enough to have a dedicated shop space, it's what I will do. Hope that helps. Tom
Lou, now that I think about it I seem to remember a guy a few years back maybe in finewoodworking who had a similar situation. On the second floor this guy cut a big hole, right in the middle of the floor. Big enough to get big things up and down. then he had ####trap door over it and a block and tackel above it where he would lower and raise whatever he needed. I thought it was pretty clever when I saw it. Just an Idea. Good luck on your new digs.
I am in the process of setting up my shop with new equipment while keeping some of my old equipment. Since I owned a 'home' cad program, 3D Home Architect, I made a drawing of my space available. I then made rectangles the size of the footprint of my shop equipment. It sure made it easier to know where I'm going to place the equipment when it is delivered.
I bought the CAD program at Sam's Club pretty cheap. My daughter used it to place her furniture in her new apartment. The moving people were thrilled that they just had to place the furniture one time. No I think that the sofa would look better over there stuff.
Thanks ZnDust, I think I will try that
Lou
This forum post is now archived. Commenting has been disabled