Hi,
I have been monitoring Knots for about 4 months but this is the first thread I have tried to start and only my second post. I have resisted posting comments or asking questions to date because I have usually been able to find what I am looing for by searching past posts and I didn’t want to be repetitive. But now I have a question and would love some advice and input.
I am in the planning stages of building my first shop that is not in my basement or garage. It will be a separate building (barn type) structure holding my woodworking shop as well as my garden equipment (e.g. tractor etc) in a separate area. This is to be my DREAM SHOP. That is to say, I am only going to build this once and I want it to contain all the features, functions possible. I do not want to look back with any regrets if possible.
I assume building a shop will be a lot like building a house….there are always things you would change if you could do it all over again. No offense, but I would like to learn from you successes and mistakes.
So here is what I need from you……please think about your shops and let me know the features you like best and least. What great ideas do you have to make your shop better? What would you change? What features do you consider essential? What is your favorite “luxury” feature? Assume there are no constraints. All ideas are possible. There obviousily will be constraints but for now I want the luxury of true brainstorming. I can “get real” later.
It will be fun to compare ideas.
Thanks for your advice.
I really enjoy “listening” to the discussion. It is always inspring to hear such passion about my favorite activity…WW.
Regards,
Al
Replies
Al
I'm sure you'll hear from the crew on ideas.
I have had great luck with suggestions and ideas here.
I'll tell you this, I am constantly changing and upgrading my shop.
There is no such thing as finished.
That said, here are a few of my feelings:
Make it twice as big as you think you'll need.
Be sure you have alot of extra storage room.
Put in 110/220 service with twice the panal space you think you need.
When building, that overhead storage can be had quite inexpensively
while your under construction, not later.
Plan to insulate and heat (and air if your area is hot).
If you spray finish, try to include an area just for this.
Have lots of other suggestions, but let's see what the crew comes up
with.
Jeff
The peanut gallery just got jealous.
Plenty of electrical with room in the panel for future expansion
3phase if you've got the bills to afford some machinery that uses it
Head room - tall sidewalls, open bays overhead, lots of windows up high
Dust collection, which sits outside and dumps into a trailer which you simply drive away when it piles up
Storage racks, industrial style, so you can forklift the pallets of wood up into the air and out of your hair
A tall, insulated, overhead door.
Sound system already wired up so when you're across the room you can still hear the tunes if your earplugs are out.
Spray booth
Compressor, with automatic everything so you don't ever have to drain it by hand again, filters, and everything piped over your head with drops to everywhere you might want to hook up an air tool, and there, all the flexible hose is on self retracting reels.
Room for about a 48" wide belt sander
Good workbench, and multiple assembly / work tables of varying heights. Try and work it so the smaller ones either tip up against the wall when not in use or you can just kick one under another.
Cabinetry
Multiple cut off saws, some with agressive blades for roughing stock to workable size, and at least one dead on accurate for more important work
First aid station, fire extinguishers, disposable earplugs for anyone that wants to visit, a place to hang your apron / shirts / cap / whatever
A good quality, lacquer thinner wont bother me utility sink tucked away in a corner
Coffee pot, radio, and other amenities put somewhere that the sawdust won't kill them.
"The child is grown / The dream is gone / And I have become / Comfortably numb " lyrics by Roger Waters
Right on with the previous suggestions.
My penny's worth... Install a wood stove and some comfortable chairs (at least one for the master of the shop). I've spent many evenings feeding scraps to the stove with my dog in my lap just thinking about woodworking and getting tired.
Hey, it's your shop and your time. And as my mom used to say when she sent me to my room: "make yourself comfortable, you may be there a while"!
Makes me shopsick just think about it...
-Ken
In the "luxury" category, put radiant-floor heating
Al,
For me it wouldn't be a difficult decision to decide the "must haves" for a great shop. I take it that there are no money constraints. For starters ,I would put up a shanty like Norm has for his shop and then I would order 1 each of every tool and machine that Norm has, move in some of my "old favorites"(mostly hand tools),and my hardwood lumber stash. That would do it for me. I can't imagine myself wanting anymore than that. If Norm can struggle along on what he has,I reckon I could too.
ken (with a small k)
In addition to the other outlandish suggestions:
Plenty of ceiling height (this from a basement ceiling challenged amueter).
Wire and DC runs under a wooden floor.
3 phase in a heartbeat if it is available.
A shanty at the side for drying green milled timbers.
Lights and skylights galore.
A beer cooler.
Enought room for me, also (where did you say you were?) LOL
Alan
Big,
As long as were dreaming....build your shop with a full 8' basement and nice thick wood slabs for a floor sitting on engineered beams. You can put an electrical floor plug where ever you need one and duct your dust down through the floor to the DC in the basement....
At least 2 overhead doors (6' or so) so the garden stuff can go out one door and woodworking out the other...
A recycled SS sink with large drain board...for mixing dyes and stains and easy cleanup.
Build it wide enough to accomodate a row of tall cabinets with doors...that way jigs and stuff can be placed close to the work area...
At least three set up tables that are adjustable height wise....8" to 26"
Big screen TV...and Weber for the Brats....why not?
I would try and divide off an area specifically for your garden equipment (i.e. lawn tractor and mowers). Saw dust coating over a carburetor takes its toll.
This may not be a luxury features but I would like in my shop:
High ceilings like 12ft. or 14ft.
Lots of windows for natural light and fresh air .
Big double doors "not the over head but the kind that slides to the sides" at each end of the shop.
A Dock where you can back up to it-make loading and un loading easy.
I think a wood floor with a crawl space would be nice .
Plenty of outlets and power
Finishing room
I would put my yard and garden stuff in on of those portable building you get a Lowes not in the shop
When I built my workshop two decades ago (25x30) I built the walls with masonry for the first 4 feet and then a conventional 8 foot wall with 2x6. The ceiling joists were placed at the usual 8 feet from the floor, that gave me substantial room for storing lumber in a attic with 3.6 feet side walls an 9.5 feet at the peak.
I would have access to the attic with a ladder placed at the very end and a 3.5x3.5 trap door in the center.
Below the peak I placed a small door opening to the outside to facilitate the unloading of lumber from the bed of the pick-up truck, to the attic.
The extra cost was only 10% more than a conventional garage, but that large extra space above the shop was invaluable. Incidentally the taxes were for a garage and not a two story building.
As of today I find the design quite functional.
Peace to all
John Cabot
Most of what's already been listed, especially 3 phase power - you can get good deals on some great old 3ph. machinery.
Workbench and assembly bench.
Separate area for metal working with concrete floor, and whatever else would help with fire suppression.
Separate finishing area.
Over-head gas heater. Radiant heat in the floor is nice, but the recovery time will be mighty slow when you open a door in the winter months.
Air conditioning.
Humidifier and dehumidifier.
Office area with computer, TV, stereo, refrigerator, microwave, couch, bathroom (with shower) and whatever amenities deemed necessary for the ultimate hideout. (Suggest you regress back into the mind of a 10 year old, or check out Tim's ultimate man's bathroom on Tool Time.)
Have fun!
Jeff
Do not ever think that there is only one layout.. please put all of your equipment on wheels and thus you can store the ones you don't need in a corner where they are out of the way.. If you decide to build a bedroom set, boat or whatever you'll need all that space for building..
same goes for the assembly bench.. make it moble, extremely well built but moble! then you can roll it out when needed. (there are dozens of ways to keep it from moving around when you want it to stay in place, some manufactores like shop fox have a very clever way of keeping things in place when you are using them and making them move easily when you are done)..
Wood floors! If you drop a freshly sharpened chisel etc, it's nice not to have it ruined and just take a nick out of the floor.. Don't make it fancy,, heck 3/4 plywood is fine. or utility grade hardwood. You'll nick it and scar it and drop paint and varnish on it.. wipe up the big mess and don't worry about the smearing.
Timber frame it!
Gonna work with wood it's inspiring to work in wood.
Windows, lots of windows..
I read in one of Tautons books about bringing light in high and let it filter down that calls for some creative design work A dog house is used sometimes, dormers help. skylights if you can't afford another solution (last choice due to potential for leaking)
You'll get depressed without enough light. There is an actual sickness called, Seasonal Adjusted Disorder. Where your eyes don't get enough natural light and you get depressed..
Dust collection, much better to dispose of the dust out of a bin than have a docter scrape it from your lungs (they can't do that)
wood storage..
one of the great luxurys is being able to grab the piece of wood that you need without the need to go buy it.. I like to buy my wood green and rough at the mill.. I get much better wood that way and much cheaper.. less than 1/10th of the retail price.. Heck evan cheaper than that! Plus I can get pieces that command a premium for the same price.. burls and crotch wood, tiger strip, and pinknots..
to do that you need to be able to store more than a years worth of wood while it dries.. If you want thicker pieces two years or evan three!
I like to have wood to trade, that is get some mahogany for my black walnut kinda thing.. I can be real generous since I have so little in it. They think their getting a heckofa deal and I'm secretly smiling, good for both sides.
Besides to me one of lifes great pleasures is taking that ordinary piece of rough wood and making the first pass and finding something special. Wood that is already planned won't ever offer you that joy.
stereo! I love classic music and listening to an opera is inspiring. Don't neglect your TV. there are many jobs that are boring and tedious..I enjoy watching programs when those need doing..
Fire!
you have wood dust and paint fumes and no way to eliminate them. wiring shorts out, rags burst into flames, heck there are too many ways that stuff can happen..
not just an alarm, a sprinkler system can be rigged up cheaply! Especially if you get the heads and much of the piping out of a wherehouse being torn down..
everyone is talking about electricity..
have an outlet every 6 inches along the wall. have overhead outlets every 4 feet. make every other overhead outlet 220 volt..
Do not hard wire your 220! I use a drier outlet on an extension cord (never less than 6 gauge) for most of my 220.. (may not make your inspector happy)
Finally the ultimate needed luxury.
space! long enough tall enough and high enough..
All over the windows... definitely need lots of natural light.
And it is "Seasonal Affective Disorder"... my wife is a counselor educator.
Rob Kress
Excuse me, it occurred to me that it could be "seasonal adjusted disorder" in another country. In the usa it is known as seasonal affective disorder.
Rob Kress
Hey frenchy.
I'm curious. How do you keep a sprinkler system from freezing? Most shops wouldn't be heated all the time, so any water in the pipes would freeze?
I've had the wild idea of adding sprinklers in my attic, and some in the basement ceiling just as a precaution. My idea for the attic ones was to put in the sprinkler heads. Get the pipes pressure tested, and put a drain on the vertical pipe run. Idea being when I turn the water on, all the attic pipes one big air cushion. Once in a while I can take a bucket and drain any water that has migrated too high. While the pipes would be under insulation as much as possible, I don't want water in them unless they're fighting a fire.
Is my wild idea anything like how you put sprinklers in your shop?
That's pretty close to the way they do it. After installation, the system is "charged" with high pressure gas. (Don't think it's just air. My guess would be argon. I suppose oxygen would produce interesting results - hydrogen, even more interesting.) I'd think Grinnell or whomever sells the heads would have the necessary unit available. There used to be systems filled with "antifreeze", but I don't think they worked as well.
For any such system to be effective, a rather large supply of water must be available to the sprinkler heads - that's why you see such large (4" or bigger) supply lines.
One final consideration: although such a system would probably save the building, would you really want whatever tools and equipment that might survive a fire and the subsequent flooding? Can't imagine they'd be good for anything.
Jeff
Wow!!!
Thanks for all the great ideas. I knew I would get some helpful and creative help here.
To answer a coiuple of your questions:
I live in the western Chicago suburb of St Charles where we have all the extremes of weather so the ideas for heating and a/c are well taken.
I do not have a budget yet. I want to get all the ideas down before I start getting "real". However, I do plan to do this right and skimp as little as possible. You only live once!!!
You all have been great. Thanks for sharing your ideas. Please keep them coming as you think of more.
When I get brave enough (and get some good pictures taken), I will post some of my project in the Gallery.
I will respond directly to several of you with some specific follow-up questions to you posts.
Warm regards,
Al
That makes sense, though I wonder if you have to recharge the gas on occassion as it'd seem that gradually the gas would migrate out through the water. Maybe not an issue.
I realize commercial sprinkler systems use a big supply, often high pressure, lines. I was just thinking for a home fire suppression type system. 3/4" copper supply line at city system pressures. Smaller lower pressure lines would mean you need more heads spaced closer together for effective coverage. Only those heads that get hot enough to trigger would go off. Too many go off, the supply system won't be adequate. But, if the fire's that big and hot, probably nothing you could do will stop it.
I'd guess it'd all depend on the actual situation. If things worked right, you're sprinkers would put out the fire while it was still small, allow you to put the fire out with a fire extinguisher, or slow the spread so the overall damage was limited. You'd also have more time to get out of the building ect. Your equipment would be very wet, but ok. Not nearly as wet as if the fire department turns on their hoses.
Worst case, a sprinkler head fails while you're on vacation and you return to a totally flooded house. With massive water damage. I even saw an automatic flowmeter/valve once. When flow started it metered it, and automatically shut off the water after a certain amount of water flowed through, thus limiting the water damage caused. Couldn't find that when I looked again. $3-400 if I remember right. For about the same amount you could put an automatic valve downstairs that cuts off the main water line if water gets up to the sensor.
>One final consideration: although such a system would probably save the building, would you really want whatever tools and equipment that might survive a fire and the subsequent flooding? Can't imagine they'd be good for anything.
Any tools that haven't gotten too hot, thus losing their temper, will likely be ok. Most could be dried out before serious rust set in, and put back into use. Even most motors will work fine if you set them out in the sun for a day or two so they thourghly dry. Though you want to check them out closely for corrossion. Insurance should replace any that are ruined, and pay for the professional restoration service to come in and clean up the mess. Sure be easier to show the agent the actual ruined tools for replacement, then to just try and convince them you had all these uncataloged tools that were destroyed with the building.
The big supply pipe is just for the large area that needs to be spinkeled.. Think of all of the sprinkler heads in a large office/ warehouse. now reduce it to the number you'd need to cover a shop ( 2,4?)
I've never seen an aircharged sprinkler.. they always have water at the head of the sprinkler to come on as soon as triggered.. some of the complexity for sprinker systems is to insure they don't have stagnent water at the head, another words the head rusted shut from non-use.
Your shop could use it's regular water supply and just remember while the sprinklers are on don't turn on the garden hose.. (or take a shower etc.......;-) ....) That's why the have dedicated systems for commerical buildings they don't want some janator to decide to wash his car while there is a fire burning..
> ....One final consideration: although such a system would probably save the building, would you really want whatever tools and equipment that might survive a fire and the subsequent flooding? Can't imagine they'd be good for anything.
For that you want to install a halon system. Designed for mainframe computer installations. Halon is an inert gas, actually non-poisonous if I'm not mistaken, but it displaces oxygen, prevents a fire from spreading and smothers it. Of course, even though it may not be poisonous, you won't live long breathing nothing but halon. Best to have plenty of exit paths to get the dickens out of the space.
This is the kind of fire suppression system that's used in large commercial kitchen hoods, too.
...........
Dennis in Bellevue WA
[email protected]
you'd heat a shop..
if you're concerned about energy useage turn the thermostat down to 45 when you leave and only kick it back up when you're working.. Cost very little to heat especially if you use SIP's as your insulation..
I want water at the sprinkler head. If it gets hot the sprinkers turn on automatically and save your shop.. since you may be on vaction, or out of town when the fire breaks out and not around to turn things on.. Have an alarm that notifies you when the water pressure drops and you'll know to call your neighbor and have him come over and turn off the water after it puts out the fire..
with your system there is no way to have the spinkler heads work since they need to be under pressure to trigger..
If the idea of having water overhead makes you nervous, you could always cover your equipment with plastic before you quit for the night.
If you use the sprinklers in loop with your water service there won't be a stagnant water problem.. while it's not done on commerical accounts because of rules etc. There is no reason it won't work for your home/shop.
Billy -
You can put in what's called a "dry" system, one where there's a valve that's activated by the fire alarm system in case of fire. With this kind of system, which is intended for use where there's a danger of the sprinkler pipes freezing, there's no water in the branch piping unless or until the fire alarm system detects smoke or heat.
They're rather spendy, though............
Dennis in Bellevue WA
[email protected]
Plenty enough space for all your machines, tools, benches and assembly tables; PLUS..... a closed off bay for all yer motorcycles!!! Sawdust does eat up carbs!
Have fun with yer shop, Al..
casey..
Hi,
Great thread topic for me too.....This week, the final certificate of occupancy inspection happens for my new 20 X 40 shop.
Things I like so far?
Four 4x4 skylights
10' walls on top of 6" stem walls.
Several windows that open.
A 10-12 roof that allows for lots of storage..and permanent stairs leading there
Light-colored painted concrete floors
A wood floor for the hand tool area
In-foundation wiring for the table saw, jointer, planer and band saw
Plenty of outlets
A large air compressor and dust collector in a "shed" just outside the shop...with iron pipe for the air compressor and 5" metal ducting for the D/C
A refrigerator for beer
A decent stereo
A basketball goal.....man doesn't live by woodworking alone!
Have fun!
Al -
From my view, the most important thing in a shop is planning; planning equipment location, work flow, utilities (power, dust control, etc.). I'm in the stages of building the shop I never had for the past 40 years. I laid out the equipment I had and a few things I think I'd like to have if & when the budget allows. I have CAD software and drew the whole thing up with that but that's really overkill - just measure your equipment or get the sizes from catalogs, etc. Important! - draw the appropriate work area around the machine. Then cut these out. Arrange them like you want them to suit your type of work. Then draw the walls around them.
This will lead to the layout for power and dust control ducting, air filtration, etc. Whether you go with a wood frame floor or slab on grade concrete, remember to lay out the electrical for equipment located out in the middle of the floor. I'm sooooo looking forward to walking around in my soon to be shop without worrying about tripping over power cords!
Lots & lots of electrical outlets! They're like clamps; you always need one more than you have. I'm running all the branch wiring in conduit on the outside of the finished walls - allows for easier changes in the future since change is the only thing constant in my life!
A 100amp service is usually adequate for a one person hobby shop, but insist on a 200amp service panel in the shop proper. A 200 amp panel has more room for more circuit breakers.
Wire your dust collector to come on automatically when you turn on a piece of machinery and have the blast gates rigged to open when the machine they're connected to is turned on.
Pipe your air compressor to every location you thing you'll need it. Run this on the outside of the finished walls as well for easier revision or addition later.
Personally I vote for a concrete floor but so far working on concrete hasn't bothered me in the way it does others. But if you do decide on a concrete floor, do it right: at least a 6" layer of pea gravel and 2" of polyiso rigid insulation. Might as well throw in some PEX tubing for floor heating while your at it - you can use an ordinary domestic hot water tank to heat the water. A warm floor makes for happy feet!
And lastly, do a lot of planning and layout with those little paper dolls! (grin)
Dennis in Bellevue WA
[email protected]
Hi Al,
Lots of great suggestions but I haven't seen anyone mention a cleanup/slop sink here. Since you said it's a separate building it would be quite a hassle to have to go somewhere else to get water for cleanup and this might be an easy thing to overlook if you haven't already planned for it.
And to second/third/fourth :+) the need for plenty of light. And electric outlets/strips. And this might sound kinda obvious, but be sure you design plenty of clearance in your doors to get what you build OUT. Now mind you, I'm not going to officially admit to this, but I might have been guilty of stupidity on that count once ...
Ken
"What is your favorite "luxury" feature?"
Boy, guess nobody here ever saw Norm's [Abrams] shop under consruction. LOL. Dust collection ductwork that was hidden underground and cast into the slab. That was slick.
Jon
Big Al, What's your budget?
> ...Dust collection ductwork that was hidden underground and cast
into the slab. That was slick.
How slick is it when it gets clogged up? (grin)
Great idea to put it under the floor but I'm putting mine in a utility trench with a removable cover for just those times when the machine tries to suck two pounds through a 1 pound pipe! (hehe)
...........
Dennis in Bellevue WA
[email protected]
"How slick is it when it gets clogged up? (grin)"
Geez. It's just carrying dust and wood chips, not sewage. In my entire life I have never seen nor heard of a dust collection system get clogged [on the transit runs]. Just for $##ts and giggles, could you come up with a REASONABLE scenario on how that could happen. No small pets or rodents please.
Jon
Jon -
I don't even *own* a dust collection system (yet) so I have no idea what they will carry in the way of chips and sawdust. All I envision at this point is the HUGE amount of material that's produced when I hog off a bunch of stuff with my little DeWalt planer off an 8" wide board. Perhaps I just don't understand the 'carrying capacity' of these things. I suspect that the most important thing about such a system is proper design to limit the pressure drop and air speed through the system to minimize the possibility of getting stuff jambed up.
...........
Dennis in Bellevue WA
[email protected]
I've jammed them up a number of times. Usually at an elbow, and it doesn't take much to get it started. Add 1 thing that isn't sawdust, or even just too much volume at one point, everything else backs up behind it. "The child is grown / The dream is gone / And I have become / Comfortably numb " lyrics by Roger Waters
I could certainly see how that could happen, but in a properly designed system the size of the pipe and elbows is increasing downstream. Something that would cause a jam would occur at the first elbow closest to the tool. Should not be a big deal to remove in any event. Even with 4" primary ductwork, you really would have to try to cause a jam.
Jon
My system clogs regularly. The pipe coming off the planer, especially when planing maple. Of course, it ususally means it's time to empty the bag.
Delta 13" 2 hp planer, Delta 2hp two stage dust collector.
Ed,
Back to what I said in the beginning, Properly designed and maintained, dust collection systems virtually never clog, with the possible exception of the first bend off the machine.
You don't live in MA by chance?
Jon
My God, the only things you fine folks didn't mention was a bedroom and bathroom complete wth a spa and steamroom.
One thing I did do was built a deck in the front of my shed That way I can sit outside with a portable work bench and do all my hand work and finishing there. The deck is great for relaxing at night with the Mrs. I have double door on the shed that opens up 66" or better. One thing that you will need is an outfeed table for the T/S. I hung a wall cabinets for all the magazines and paperwork I have. Get a good solid workbench and DON'T be cheap on this investment.
Dave in Pa.
Yep dave ya think like I do except I add a fridge, micro wave, TV with cable/satilite, internet complete central music system w/satilite music, (cant miss norm or dave)plus vcr/dvd library and bath room complete with shower, the other things such as seperate finishing room, climate controled wood storage, natural light, sky lights throughout, A/C and centtral heat, the usual tools PM 66, 20" planer, 48 drum sander, shaper w/ complete set of cutters, ect double 20 fft roll up shop door, ability to drive truck in or when wood is delievered to drive into shop and unload it.
Darkworks: Its all 'bout da squilla
> ....the usual tools ..., 20" planer,....
Since the recent thread regarding the size of jointer's (economically) available vs the size of planers, I can't help asking what's the attraction of such wide capacity planers since at best, we usually only have 8" jointers within the slightly more than modest price range? Given a 20" or even 12" wide piece of S2S stock, preparing it 4 square usually involves face and edge jointing one face and edge first, doesn't it?
Being a total novice at all this stuff, that's a real question and not an attempt to start an arguement.
...........
Dennis in Bellevue WA
[email protected]
> ....the usual tools ..., 20" planer,....
Since the recent thread regarding the size of jointer's (economically) available vs the size of planers, I can't help asking what's the attraction of
such wide capacity planers since at best, we usually only have 8" jointers within the slightly more than modest price range? Given a 20" or even 12"
wide piece of S2S stock, preparing it 4 square usually involves face and edge jointing one face and edge first, doesn't it?
Being a total novice at all this stuff, that's a real question and not an attempt to start an arguement.
...........
Dennis in Bellevue WA
Dennis,
Fair question. true I have a 12 1/2 planer and a 6" jointer. I really very seldom need to plane anything wider. But sometimes I do and It would be nice to be able to run anything through you wanted.
But first look at this thread it is based on a "Dream shop" so I answered that way. Now with that outta the way, I will say that alarger planer has more blades usually 3. Where a 2-13" has only 2 . It will give a nicer surface with less snipe plus with more area to run the smaller pieces through you can finish your planeing operation faster. Also it is heavier and a better built machine whichshould last longer. Someone told me once that the small portable planers are designed to wear out and after a period of time and use I know that they do. IMO
Darkworks: Its all 'bout da squilla
One thing nobody's mentioned is the elevator up to the wood storage loft.
I'm serious. My uncle built a simple elevator that was big enough to lift sheet goods 10' up to the loft. If I remember right he used a reversing motor with an industrial gearbox that turned a cable takeup reel. The elevator rode up some steel track with traintrack type guide wheels. It was slow, but would lift anything you put on it. You'd push a button, and when the elevator got to the top it hit a limit switch that shut it off. So he'd usually load materials, push the button, then unload it when convienient.
Always thought this was a great idea. He'd built his out of scaveneged industrial surplus stuff, so the out of pocket cost was minimal.
This shop sounds like a Lotto winners shop. I like all the suggestions so far. I have stereo, cassette tape deck and AC and I don't think thats too much at all, for the amount of time I spend out there. Thinking of adding a CD player and new speakers. When the old stereo died I went out and bought a brand new receiver and installed it in the shop. Its better than the stereo in the house. The old shop TV died, darn, I got tired of green football and I'm not talking about the grass.
I hope not to repeat anything:
Large standard door entrance for routine entry, storm and screen.
Overhangs on all doors to protect from weather and sun. I added a 30" x 8' overhang on my garage door years ago to stop the several times a year that a driving rain from the south will flow down the door and wash under. Also keeps out the direct sun, less glare and cooler. I still need a small one on the side door. Also nice to have the door wide open in the pouring rain.
Opening windows on all sides and a huge attic fan.
Wide sidewalk or driveway all the way to the building.
Intercom to the house, what am I talking about...NO!
Depending on the neighborhood: alarm system and motion lighting.
Trap door for material transfer to attic.
Dog bed.
Lazyboy!
Enjoy, Roy
Another cheap way to build an elevator is get a upright from a fork lift,, (just get a scrapped old forklift and unbolt it, often can find for less than a couple of hundred dollars..).. Since the upright never wears out on roller masts it will be in fine shape evan if the motor and everything is junk. then use a 110 volt motor to drive the hydraulic system.
For information the Clark of the sixties/ seventies etc. was an all roller mast as were several others.. since the narrow isle ones were not well accepted they would most likely be a candidate for conversion to an elevator..
Of course I'd heat a shop. But, only when I'm in it. My personal preference is a wood stove. Though you are right that if you build with SIP's it'd be pretty cheap to keep at 40-45 degrees.
>>with your system there is no way to have the spinkler heads work since they need to be under pressure to trigger..
Not sure they need to be under pressure to work. Something I'd definately want to test before I put a system in though. I believe gas charged systems are common for sprinkler systems in unheated warehouses, or large freezers. The air idea is all mine. I believe most sprinkler heads will open as soon as the glass bulb or fusible link gets hot enough. There would be a small delay while the water pushed the air out of the pipe, but I can't see where that would hurt much.
Water overhead doesn't bother me. The possibility of freezing pipes does.
>>If you use the sprinklers in loop with your water service there won't be a stagnant water problem.. while it's not done on commerical accounts because of rules etc. There is no reason it won't work for your home/shop.
Great idea.
Your forklift elevator idea is fabulous. I've seen lots of cheap broken forklifts at equipment sales. Particularly electric ones, as people don't want to shell out $5K or more for a new battery pack. This'd sure be quicker then the idea I posted. Just need a lift and a small hydraulic system.
Just a thought on that sprinkler pipe freezing question. Why not just fill that branch with (RV type?) antifreeze. Shouldn't be that hard to isolate. Only would be used if there is a fire right? So for all intents and purposes it could sit in the pipe forever.
Jon
Al,
The "No Budget" concept seems to have gotten everybody really excited, and it has led to a fun thread. I don't really have anything new to add, but I would like to reinforce some things that I think are really important. I work in a very small shop, and its deficiencies have shaped my opinions on this subject.
- Build two, three, whatever times the space you think you will need. You will fill that space up with tools, materials, parts in progress, spaces designated for specific tasks...
- Have a dedicated finishing room, set up for spraying. That is a good place for your slop sink. Once I put finish on something, I am unable to work on cutting, shaping, and other tasks because I don't want to create dust and ruin a finish. I can't emphasize this point enough.
- Have a wood storage area set up for wood in various states of drying. Somebody mentioned an outside area for the initial drying of green wood. That is a great idea. Green lumber is often cheaper than kiln dried, and many woodworkers say that kiln dried lumber never looks as good as air dried. I would love to start buying green lumber, but I don't have any space to dry it.
- Build at least ten foot tall walls. High ceilings make it much easier to spin lumber around.
- Make sure you get, or make, a good cabinetmakers workbench. A good bench is critical to hand tool work. Even if you don't do much hand work now, you may in the future. I don't mean to hop on a neanderthal soapbox; but handtool work, especially planing, is the most enjoyable aspect of woodworking.
- Make a designated sharpening area. Sharpening is messy. Without a designated spot, you will be less inclined to sharpen as often as necessary because of fear of getting crap on newly cleaned surfaces.
- Make several assembly tables of various heights. I would make them about 4' x4'. I would make the shortest one about 12" tall. The tallest would be around 32". These heights would vary based on your size and the types of projects you do. I think that if I were in your shoes, this would be one of my must haves.
- The dust collection lines in the floor, that someone mentioned, is a good idea. It always seems clumsy to step over all those lines.
- A wood floor is a good idea. The disappointment of a freshly sharpened blade hitting a concrete floor hard, and chipping, is indescribable.
- Since this is a dream shop, you have a bazillion Bessy K-Bodies. Make a well organized clamp storage areas. (Take the hint about setting yourself up with alot of clamps. No matter how many you have, you will be able to use them all.)
- Don't just make a drywall box. I agree with the previous poster who said that a woodshop should have a significant amount of exposed wood in its construction.
- It should be obvious from all of the previous posters that plenty of light (natural and artificial) and plenty of electrical capacity are critical.
Good Luck
Kyle
Here are a few "luxury" items that I currently have in my shop that I couldn't do without.
1.) A large capacity panel saw (for sheet goods) with infeed and outfeed roller racks (enough so a full sheet of plywood can be cut length wise can be made without it dropping off the end.)
2.) A hydraulic scissors jack work table. It allows me to work on things as low as 30" from the floor, to as high as 6' up in the air.
3.) A dedicated drafting and design room. I draw all of my pieces to full scale before any wood is cut. The room has an 4'x8' drafting table that can be angled or rest flat, computer, blueprint storage, and every piece of drafting hardware you'd ever need (pencils, pens, rulers, T-squares, etc...)
4.) An electric furniture dolly - a platform that can carry anything from a large conference table sized piece of furniture, or (slightly modified) full sheet goods. Its driven from walk-along controls at one end.
Dan Kornfeld, Owner/President - Odyssey Wood Design, Inc.
Big Al,
Everyone has done pretty well on the suggestions. I'm attaching a shot of my shop just when it was almost comleted last year. Depending on where you live, region of the country will dictate certain designs. Neighborhood covenants may influence design also. I had to have the roof pitch match the house (6-12) and I sort of cheated a bit on the siding because the covenants call for the exterior to be of the same material as the house. Mine is brick on 3 sides but the back is vinyl, I covered the shop in vinyl (cheaper).
A few things that I did on mine that I really like are:
1. a separate storeroom for things that I don't want covered in sawdust. Notice in the photo that the entry to that storeroom is not through the shop but under the carport, that way I don't have sawdust in there. I keep my lawn tractor in there too so I put in double doors there, about 6' wide.
2. the covered carport area that opens to the shop through overhead roll-up garage door. I sometimes sand and do other work outside, under the cover of the carport. Also nice on rainy days its nice to be able to open the garage door and get nice ventilation.
3. I made a wood loft over the storeroom (which is only 8' high) on the inside of my shop, its a bit of a pain to get the wood up there but once its there its nice to have it up & out of the way.
4. I made 10' walls and then used scissor trusses which gave me a tremendous amount of overhead room. Its nice 'cause it doesn't get too hot in the summer and there's good air movement.
5. Good insulation in the walls and ceiling. I added a big extractor fan, high in the back wall to take out light dust and hot air.
6. I put in sheetrock overhead and on the walls, painted it white. It gives off lots of light and makes the place look more finished.
7. 2 skylights really help out with the lighting, I think I could have put in another and it would have been even better.
somehow, I attached 2 copies of the same photo here and couldn't figure out how o remove it, sorry.
Good luck with yours and don't be afraid to ask questions, folks here love to help out,
Hugh
Don't forget all the big power tools.
This is a dream shop.
Big planner, big jointer, big surface sander.
3 head shaper
Couple router tables
Big sanding station
Panel saw
Nice lathe with stand and tool storage
Good tablesaw, long fence rails, with good outfeed support.
Nice big bandsaw
2 mitersaws, or sliding miter saws so you can use one for rough cutting, and the other for finish cutting.
And then at least a full pickup load of good handtools, airtools, and clamps.
Of course your first few shop projects can be building workbenches, assembly benches, finishing benches, storage cabinets, tool cabinets, lathe stands, etc. Thus proving the need for a shop, so you can build all this stuff.
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