in woodworking.
Hello All
My name is David and this is my first post. I didn’t want my first post to get lost in another thread so PLEASE don’t attack me. This subject is very dear to my heart.
I love woodworking, but realize how truly hard it is to make a living at it. I know, it depends on each persons opinion of what a living is. The guys that I know that are making it are working out of their garage and have a supporting spouse, or are single and struggling. It depends on the market, bigtime.
If you live in an area where people spend money like there’s no tomorrow, you may make it. But there are many variables to making it. Here’s what I did in a different field and am finally busy beyond belief.
I learned how to make countertops about 10 years ago. After learning just about everything possible about laminate, I opened my own business. The following reasons are why I and my wife believe we’ve been successful at it.
1. Like what your doing or find reasons to like it (love it if possible)
2. I built a shop in my backyard and don’t pay $1300 a month like others in my field(if you lease, you really depend on builders…..more on them later)
3. Understand that it will take time. My goal was 5 years to break $50,000, which I did. If you do this right, every year you will go up a little more than the previous.
4. You must be able to talk to people and be HONEST!!! It’s not what you say, it’s how you say it. I cheat nobody, ever. But yes, I except to be paid fairly, just as they do when they go to work.
5. Rule no. 4 will get you something you can’t do without, referrals!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
6. Treat those who give you referrals fairly. I find out their favorite restaurant and give them a decent gift certificate. Without them, I wouldn’t have gotten the job.
7. When you say your gonna show up, show up or have enough courtesy to call. I’ve gotten sooooooooooooo many jobs without competition due to no shows. People do not like that, trust me.
8. I take no money down, ever, and never will. Going into my 7th year I have never been ripped off. Remember, we are talking about countertops here, not woodworking.
9. You’ll have to work some odd and long hours at times, except it. There are times to put your nose to the grindstone and down times as well. I hardly work all summer becauses it is slow. In November and December I jam. There are ups and downs in most areas of the trades. Accept this and move on.
10. Don’t give up and don’t rush!!!!!!!!! Hone your skills on talking to people as well as your fabrication skills. I always ask when I am done……Why did you choose me???? Many have told me you sounded honest about everything you said and a lot of the other estimates sounded like carsalesmen. If someone asks me about granite, I say get it if you can afford it, it looks fantastic. Most people still end up going with laminate, but they want the truth. Don’t be in a hurry to give someone a price and leave.
The above are some of the things that have worked for me. I don’t rely on builders, never. Almost, I said almost, all of the builders I get calls from want it for free. You’d be working day and night and never make a fair living. They will make more selling the top to the homeowner , than you did fabricating and installing it (trust me,I know first hand).
OKAY, what does this have to do with woodworking???? I wanted to be a true furniture maker, but realized what I was up against. Yes, some will make it, but it is a true gamble. I am 32 years old and I don’t think I’d be where I am now if I had tried to make furniture at age 24 (but who knows??? No, I am not rich, far from it and I don’t need to be. A roof over my family’s head and one nice vacation a year, that’s enough for me.
You have to decide if it’s worth the gamble. With a working spouse you can always give it go. I decided to make countertops for a living and I got a shop out of it to do my woodworking as a hobby. Not all people can build a shop in their backyard and do what I did, but I was able to do so and went for it.
Whatever any potential furniture makers decide, I truly hope my post makes you think about it. David Marks has hit it big and you may be the next him, or not. It is your choice. I felt I had the skills to make it, but the market you live in and competition I’d be facing would have made it very tough. Wal-marts, other furniture makers, the economy, etc…..are all competition and they are real.
I know I didn’t touch on everything or even close, but these are some things that I had to think about at age 24 and they worked for me. To be a dedicated woodworker and make a living at it is tough. What do you think????? And oh yeah, this is a great site!
Gratefully, David
Chris B. makes $35,000 a year???? That doesn’t seem right (books, videos, classes, furniture). I guess I am wrong.
Replies
Parade had what people make in it about a week ago. Kelly Mehler was in it showing up at $60K/yr. Considering his reputation and everything, it gives you an idea that you generally don't get rich in this game.
Hello Eric
I heard the same thing and kindly dispute what was reported. Kelly's 2005 classes gross $105,000 alone. I did the math from his website. He also does the woodworkingshows and sells furniture, books, and dvds. That $60,000 (I heard $65,000) might be his adjusted gross income, not his actual gross. He has a lot of write-offs. I think he is an outstanding woodworker and deserves whatever he makes. I just don't believe it's $60,000. Sorry, just my opinion. By the way Eric, did I post my thread in the proper forum?????? Thanks for responding.
David
I left a message for Kelly the morning I saw it. Haven't gotten a reply yet, but he is slow in his email returns anyway. It is hard to tell what the amount is based on, since he is self employed and I know from experience that you think of it with all the overhead so you don't get a big head.
RE: Chris BecksvoortI read this (the $35M figure) somewhere -- I think it was a profile in Woodwork. His is a one man shop, and I got the impression the number was only for the the stuff he builds -- and probably did not include any monies her earned from other sources. People like Maloof probably do (did) a lot better, since if I'm not mistaken, he had others working for him in the shop. Thus, when he is off accepting awards, the shop is still generating income. As for you, I think your business plan is very shrewd and sensible. As someone said in the other thread, marketing is crucial, and if you are good at finding niches, and working them effectively, that covers about 80% of the challenge. If you can find a way to apply the same principles you are using (for countertops) to furniture making, I have no doubt that you will do very well, indeed. Good luck.
Custom furnituremakers - medium high five figures to low six figures gross (if you do some teaching along with your woodworking). This is for an outstanding craftsman with an impeccable local, if not national, reputation. If you live in a small town and don't have a national reputation and clientele your gross earnings won't be anywhere near this range.
Bulk cabinet/custom kitchen guys can easily make much more since there is more demand for this kind of work than there is for custom standalone fine furniture.
Edited 3/23/2005 11:10 am ET by cstan
Countertop -
I completely agree with the basic principles and methods you've described. I built a 12' x 24' shop on my property that will top out at about $4500 when I get the cedar shakes on the roof. I used recycled cedar decking to build my own windows, and refurbished 6' sliding glass doors I got free from 2 jobs where I put in new units. All my own labor.
I found a niche within the woodworking field, and it's starting to take off. If I were to work 50 forty hour weeks I'd make about $80,000. I don't plan on doing that, because I like the freedom of fishing and golfing when I feel like it.
I spent 20 years in sales and quickly learned that people like you and me just want to be treated fairly and honestly, and not to be "pushed" in an fashion. I don't charge people to come to their house to discuss and help design their project, although there's plenty of guys who do. I had one guy tell me "It costs them $75 for me to walk in their door." Idiot.
And finally - I absolutely love what I'm doing. I'm in my early 50's now and I wish I'd been doing this all my life. I can't wait to get out in the shop and start having "fun."
Good luck, but in truth, you won't need "luck." You've got the correct formula.
Thanks, I am glad you agree with the formula. Just for the record, I am still a countertop guy, woodworking is my hobby. I was applying my countertop business principles to anyone who wants to get into woodworking. I was not brave enough to go for it!!!! I just felt I couldn't make a fair living off of it, but the countertop business has turned out fine. Not gonna be a rich guy by any stretch of the imagination, but I can make a fair and decent living.
One thing of many that I forgot to add, have a portfolio. I took 198 pictures last year and are going to have Sam's Club print 168 that I decided to keep. It makes a BIG (HUGE) difference when you show up to an estimate with photos of your work, no matter what field you are in. People like to see pictures. Good luck to all the brave who decide to venture in to professional woodworking. For me, it is a hobby that I will do till I die. Thanks for reading and thanks for all of your responses!
Good Day, David
p.s. Word of mouth is the most powerful business tool you have.
If it's what you really like, passionate about it, and if you really intend to be the absolute "best". Then just get started .
"They" say the money will follow.
Sounds like you proved "them" right.
Congrats!
And thanks for the great post!
"Affairs on the border cannot be judged by standards that hold elsewhere."
Edited 3/23/2005 1:12 pm ET by intrepid_cat
Your welcome and thanks for your kind response. I guess one is never really sure what the future holds. Until then, we all keep pressing on and have fun at it, whatever it is!!! Good day.
Gratefully, David
You must be able to talk to people and be HONEST!!! It's not what you say, it's how you say it. ..
AND your work will speak for itself... I'd make sure if the client is happy.. Hand out more than a few business cards..
I think it would be Ok to ask a satisfied customer if you could use them for a reference..
NEVER use then if they say NO! Even if the work was excellent!
so PLEASE don't attack me.. LOL I loved that one...
I think ALL that work with their hands get attacked.. Not like a accountant hiding something in the books... FOR ALL TO SEE!
Edited 3/24/2005 2:47 am ET by Will George
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