I’ve always wanted a Felder T/S. I was reading post in the thread Tablesaw Price Check and several commented about the fact that manufacturers could provide sliding tables, rivvers and crown gaurds. Norm from Fujini stated how the contractor saws wasted space for our small shops. How true all this is.
I’ve waited 30 years for a good T/S to appear on the market that has some great features like the Euro Cabinet Saws. I ran across one not long ago. It was used, but a little cleaning up and some repairs and it looks like new. My problem is I don’t know what kind of T/S it is. Thought I would attach a picture and see if anyone can identify it. Will describe it’s features to see if that helps identity. Has no brand name on it.
Table-top is within .080 of being flat. Has a dual mitre slot on the left of blade and a single T-slot mitre slot on the right. The sliding mitre table is smooth on ball-bearing sliders. Has and over-sized mitre-fence with hold-down that detaches from the slider. MDF extention table on right and behind saw. The rails will allow 60″ rip to the right (enough for full panels). The top of saw cabinet is 3/8″ plate steel with a thin sheet metal exterior. 1 1/2HP motor. Arbor re-inforced and attached to the cabinet. Driven by three 8″ serpentine belts. Motor can be detached and replaced by 3 r 5HP if necessary as saw is wired for 220v. And now it gets weird!!!!
The base of saw is solid maple spray-painted candy-apple red. The front of base has concealed hinges and opens. There is a slide out drawer at the very top that catches sawdust that misses the saw-dust shroud under blade. Can just pull it out and empty it or vacuum. Under-neath that drawer is a garage or shop type small refrigerator for holding soft drinks. The saw weighs almost 300 lbs. when fully loaded with soft drinks.
The thing is virtually vibration free and has custom splitters for both TK and regular blades. I did get some custom rivvers and a crown guard on order. They should be on the saw in a few weeks. With those included, I have about $280 invested in this un-identified saw. From the picture, can anybody tell me what kind of saw this is in case I need parts in the future???
sarge..jt PICTURE ATTACHED
Replies
Sarge,
You found my missing saw!!!
Thank goodness. I knew it would show up sooner or later. Please put it on a plane right away, okay? I can't wait to get it back!
Rich
You guys never miss a trick! ROFL! forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Rich
Ha.. Very good comments in other thread about rivvers, crown gaurds and sliders. I totally agree as probaly most WW's would. We are long over-due for some of the features that could be in-corporated into a decent, reasonably priced saw. Got lucky and found one that meets some of that criteria.
Sounds like I need to install an alarm system now. Grin<>
sarge..jt What I Got??
Sarge: Old buddy I havent got a clue to what the heck brand saw it is, but I like it.. Only you would find one..LOL... Hope your not pounding any cold beers while your sawing.. thats a no no.. beer and saw dust doesnt mix.. pound em when your all done... hmm beer cooler in a table saw , why didnt Delta ever think of that??
Take care...ToolDoc
He Who Dies With The most tools Wins......
DOC
Nah, no cold beer in that cooler. I suppose I still enjoy malt brew, but I ran out about 25 years ago and just can't remember to pick any up. OldTimer's Disease setting in at 55. Have a good week-end scrolling pardner!
sarge..jt
SARGE: NO beer in 25 years, oh my, guess Im not coming to visit you any time soon..LOL, Yup been busy in the shop most of the day, just scrolling away..
Happy Woodworking...ToolDoc
Sarge,
Do you think someone customized that base?..solid maple, pull out draw and refrig.... Very good looking whatever it is.
Suggest you throw away blade, slap it in the minivan...you'll have a hell of a camper...lol
BG
Thanks. I'm happy with it. It's not the Felder, but it's smooth as silk and pretty good value. he...
Check my post to Norm after I finish this one and you'll find out what kink of saw it is. Yep, does look like someone did a job of customizing. Wonder who it was!? he...
What are you doing up at 5:05 am??
sarge..jt
Nah, couldn't be . . .
View Image
One question, Sarge: did you put a dust pan under that beast to keep the sawdust from drifting into the refrigerator?". . .and only the stump or fishy part of him remained."
Green Gables: A Contemplative Companion to Fujino Township
Norm
Good catch. You posted while I was typing. Have to take my wife out to eat as her birthday. Yeah, that's what the drawer is for on the saw-dust thing. Get little drop anyway. The rear dust chute gets most.
Catch you latter..
sarge..jt
Har! Great story, Sarge. Parts? Heck, looks like you're doing a pretty good job of making them up as you go!
Well, if nothing else, the refrigerator should help cool the 5HP motor and laser cutters (you did say you had installed the laser cutters, didn't you?).
Green Gables: A Contemplative Companion to Fujino Township
Norm, I was hoping you would post. I read your post T/S Prices. Your comments and others on rivvers and gaurds. You made some interesting comments on Ryobi down-grading their saw. I also agree as I felt they had some excellent ideas in their saw. They could have beefed it up and added a few more features and it could have been a real winner.
BTW, you did a nice job of customizing your Ryobi BT 3000. Using the dead space underneath is clever and the blue paint job looks good. How do you like the custom job I did on my BT 3000? The picture is kind of dark as a poloroid. I knew if anyone would catch what the main component of the saw was it would probaly be you. The looks have changed quite a bit I suppose.
I bought it from a neighbor that builds custom outdoor furniture for $100 with the rails. The rails cost that much. He upgraded to a PM 66. He told me the saw had been run hard for 2 years and was "junk" at this point. I had something else in mind as I thought it has good basic design and could be beefed.
My best friend is a mechanical engineer. I let him look at it and hashed over what I wanted to do. He took the top saw cabinet home an a month latter had blue-prints for what he felt needed to be done. Those blue-prints went to my brother-in-law who is a master machinist at Delta Air Lines. He and others at his shop on lunch breaks built up the guts with plate steel and machined the arbor and internal parts. Used a few of the original components. Built a cover for the height adjustment gears to keep saw-dust out of them. If you look closely at the picture you see the original BT 3000 sheet-metal front. That's about all the upper case that remained the same. TJ also disigned an arbor that will work with the 5 HP motor on his Delta Uni-saw. I have a Delta 1 1/2 HP in the saw as I rarely need more horse. Took it out of my old Delta.
I ground the ribbed aluminum top down to close to flat and stopped at that. TJ had looked at the slider on a Felder and Rojek and we were able to come up with a ball bearing set-up to beef that up. Also we beefed the lock downs on the sliding table as I felt they were weak. Everything else on top of the saw is original other that that. Would love to have cast iron, but the table and extentions are flat and work with no problems.
I built the base from left over maple from work-bench projects and pieces people donated. Added a saw-dust drawer at the top and put a door on the front with concealed hinges so it looks like one solid cabinet. Got room under-neath for jigs and saw related items, but I have them all arranged on the wall next to the saw. I was kiddin' and said I should put my shop refrigerator under the saw. Why not! I did it sort of as a novelty but it keeps it out of the way. Won't mention where I keep the coffee pot. Ha....
Added the MDF extentions to right and rear and saw is ready. I had my old saw wired 220v so left it alone in case I added higher horse which I doubt. TJ has some rivvers and a gaurd designed for it. My B-I-L is machining them and hope to have in a few weeks.
So, what was one person's "junk" has turned out to be another persons "treasure". Took some creativity and work, but I'm very happy with the results as all the people that are responsible for the customization.
Thought it would be interesting to see if anybody recognized the front cover from the BT and similar slider. Guess not..Grin<>
Good luck with your BT 3000..
sarge..jt
Heck, Sarge, as long as you had free labor "on their lunch hours" and free use of Delta's machine tools, why didn't you get them to duplicate an Altendorf or a Martin?
Don
Cause I'm dumb and never thought of it. Ha.. I'll be forever paying back favors as it is. Actually Brian (my BIL) and his crew got interested and did it as a labor of love to see if we could pull it off. I think they're as proud of the results as I am. Hmmm..... Not a bad idea though. You know what they say, "Delta is ready when you are"..
I wish the manufacturers could read this post. I contend that WW tools should probaly be designed by WW. We came up with good results and a good part of the machining was done on lunch breaks. We're just dumb country boys. They have the capability of coming up with better designs and could do it on coffee breaks. That's my opinion, anyway..
Have a good evening..
sarge..jt
a good part of the machining was done on lunch breaks
So these guys didn't get to eat while they were building your saw?
Don
I don't know as I wasn't there. It took about 2 months to get everyting done from the shop. I sure hope they ate something at some point. I've visited and the atmosphere is quite relaxed in the machine shop. If I had my guess they didn't miss many meals. Ha.. Just a guess, though.
sarge..jt
Good grief! you mean you were serious about all that rebuilding? Whew, I'm still picking myself up.
I saw the BT3000 front and assumed you were joshing about all those modifications. Boy, I wish you would post some closeup pictures of your saw over on the Ryobi forum! Guys there would love to see them.
http://www.ryobitools.com/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboard.cgi". . .and only the stump or fishy part of him remained."
Green Gables: A Contemplative Companion to Fujino Township
Norm
I knew there is a Ryobi web-site. When I've ever been there I did not catch there is a place to post. I've only been on these PC's a few months. My wife has to upload the picture as I'm not to swift with all this high-tech. I used an old poloroid One-Step to take that picture. It's been overcast in Atlanta all week-end and had to also throw two 1000 watt base lamps on it to get it that light. Yellow light made picture more yellow than normal.
I will take a roll of 35mm next week-end if weather conditions are good as I just finished a mortiser cabinet. I would like to get some pictures of my router table and fence I made from the git-go also. When I get them I will have the First Lady post over there. Do they have discussions also?
By the way, what's the Fujino thing? At first I thought you were posting from Fuji. he...I notice the little thing at the end and think that might be some type of community..Where are you located?
sarge..jt
Sarge, theref‚“ quite a community over on the Ryobi forum, mostly BT3000 users, but some conventional ts users as well. Lots of discussions going on, but you do have to register to be able to post. Maybe that's why you didn't see the forums before. You might also take a look at Sam Conder's BT3000 Jig and Fixture Site for quite a bit more "hard-core" BT3000 stuff. If you get some more detailed pics of your modifications, I'm sure that people over there are going to want to see them.
Fujino is in the mountains about one hour west of central Tokyo. We built a house here 9 years ago. Before that, we lived in a couple of areas of western Tokyo for 13 years, and I was in Tokyo and Okinawa for about 3 years when single, so I guess I've been in Japan for about 25 years now.
". . .and only the stump or fishy part of him remained."
Green Gables: A Contemplative Companion to Fujino Township
Norm
Thanks for reply. Had to walk my old lady sheppard this time ot nite. (EST) Thanks for info on site. I will check it out and get with TJ on showing close-ups. He designed the guts and he's been my closest friend since we entered 1st grade a long time ago. If it's OK with him, I will post if I can get up close with a camera. I don't know if there is enough light with flash to do guts. I know as much about photography as I do about PC's. I will try and see if it comes out OK as I do want to get some pics of various tools and the shop. I have meant to for awhile.
Is the Sam Condo thing related to that site or do you do the www. thing in front of that. Told you I'm not to swift with this yet, but catching on. If I ask my wife, it cost me expensive dinners. he.. Is Fujino near Mt. Fuji? Second question: I have seen the BT at HD before they dropped it recently. Meet the local rep as he works out of the S.C. manufacturing plant. I noticed on the box when I saw it a logo or similar that said Kodama or Kodoma (not sure). Is the word Nippon, or derived from another language. Kind of catchy and its stuck in my mind. Would like to know origin and meaning. Have no need, but just want to know as I have a little knowledge of Japanese and oriental culture.
Let you go, as it's 1:18 am EST. Got work tomorrow as I work part time now since I closed my company 4 years ago. Thanks for all the info you've provided. I really appreciate it.
Have a good what-ever time it is in Japan..Grin<>
sarge..jt
Sarge,
If my Ryobi had all the bells and whistles yours does, I wouldn't have given it to my Dad. (Guess when I bought it from a wholesaler they sold me an economy model and I, dumb hick, I didn't even know the difference.) Guess I'm just going to have to modify my Jet. Where is Tim Allen when I need him?
Jeff
Jeff
Thanks for the reply. The BT 3000 has got some features that are very clever. It's not an industrial saw by any means. But for the price not a bad saw either. Actually, a good saw that could use some beefing up. IMO of course. Look at the contractor saws drive train. Why put the motor in a trailer behind the saw and then run belts back to the arbor. Loss of efficiency and vibration. The bottom is open so the saw-dust drops and disperse all over the shop.
Once I used a sliding table I was hooked. The Ryobi has a sliding table. Not a heavy duty one, but it has one. It also uses a 2 belt drive with motor underneath the arbor similar to a cabinet saw. It has less vibration and more horse delivered to the arbor than any other contractor I've used without any modification. The tables are ribbed aluminum. Very easy to flatten as aluminum can even be sanded. Cast iron is heavier but much more expensive. Just their way of keeping cost down. BT 3000 slider is removable and can be switched to other side of table. Excellent dust shroud under the blade. If it had more weight the vibration would be reduced even more. That's why I decided to modify and see what I could do to beef it up. Just an experiment to see if I could take a good low priced saw and make it a great low priced saw. People will tend to laugh at Ryobi, but they see that weird thing coming off the front and are thinking traditional TS. Most have never taken a close look, much less used one. Ask Norm in Fujino how he likes it and what he thinks.
Dewalt came out with the hybrid and Jet up-ped the ante with a duplicate with cast iron tables instead of the heavy gauge aluminum. Both were capable of putting the drive train under the motor as with their cabinets. Both have pretty good sliding tables. Neither are Felders but a step up with the slider. Why can't they incorporate the slider built on to the cabinet saws and add rivvers. IMO, they may eventually but as long as we keep buying what they got, it won't happen anytime soon. No re-tooling keeps operating cost down and profits up. There is a need for a saw that has it all at a reasonable price. Need = Opportunity.. This would be a great opportunity for someone. If nothing else, conversion kits to change them to what we need. I sell disc brake conversion kits for older classic cars every day. Same with transmission conversions. Why not TableSaws!?
I have been patient, but I'm running short on time. If they won't meet my needs, I'm not going to sit around and wait till they do. Just wait till someone puts that Jet SuperSaw or Dewalt hybrid with the slider in a yard sale. I've got a very good non-industrial saw now. The next one is going to be a very good one. With a few back-yard modifications of course..Grin<> IMO, of course...
sarge..jt
Sarge,
Glad you enjoy the Ryobi. Although I found mine rather noisy, the only reason I didn't keep mine was that it wasn't heavy enough to meet my needs. I think it's a tremendous saw for the $$.
Jeff
Jeff
Say hello to your dad and wish him well for me. He should enjoy the BT if he's not into production. Yep, I understand your needs for the heavier saw. In no way is this a slam to others saws and techniques. I wish the manufacturing people could understand. They could make modifications and meet the needs from the entry-level up to the people that have to use them to make a living every day with the equipment. They could do it and everyone would be safer and have a saw available to meet there individual requirements and price range.
Keep up the enthusiam I've seen you exhibit through-out this board. Wish I had your energy. Hey, don't write me off just yet though. I only got 1 foot in the grave, the other one is planted firmly on solid ground and still kickin. Grin<>
sarge..jt
Sarge, to get to either of the sites I mentioned all you should have to do is click on the links I supplied. They should take you right there.
". . .and only the stump or fishy part of him remained."
Green Gables: A Contemplative Companion to Fujino Township
Oops, forgot: the Kodama on the package literally means "wood-spirit" (ki + tama), but it also means "echo," because people once thought that echoes in the forest were caused by the mysterious spirits of the trees.
". . .and only the stump or fishy part of him remained."
Green Gables: A Contemplative Companion to Fujino Township
Edited 9/24/2002 10:39:55 AM ET by Norm in Fujino
Norm
Thanks for the tip on how to navigate with the link. I mentioned that to my wife who is MIS and she just shook her head and walked off laughing. I get no respect..Ha...
Also, thanks for the translation on Wood-Spirit. I had ask a customer in Ca. who is Japanese decent that question. He did not think it was a Japanese word. Probaly had been in Ca. too long. He knew plenty about surf-boards though. he...
Great work in the TS Prices on explaining the rivvers and the graphics you did were fantastic. Lots of things that could be passed to some of the entry levels. I'm glad someone speaks up and shows interest in getting it to them..Thanks..
sarge..jt
Norm
Opps.. Forgot to mention. Hmmmm. I also thought echoes in the forrest were caused by the spirits of trees. You mean someone has challenged that theory too. Guess I'm a little behind in my thinking.. Grin<>
sarge..jt
Sarge,
I've been following this thread and wanted to say something, just not sure what! haha
One thing you didn't say was if the maple base seems to be original with the saw, or could this be a bench saw someone has enhanced or maybe a base replacement? I'm curious if the threads are metric or SAE? That may help narrow the origin a little, if just a little!
Don
Don
Go to post #12 of this thread. You possibly missed it. It will explain what kind of saw and a few modifications. I thought it would be interesting to see if anyone could pick up identity as it's quite camouflaged. I had a feeling Norm in Fujino would pick it up as he did. FG was on it also as per an e-mail from her. You can't slip anything past FG. That's why I call her Lert (Alert)..
sarge..jt
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