Replies

1. 
   Rob_Weiner | Mar 26, 2002 04:09pm | #1

   Will-

   Is this paint or stain/varnish?  How many coats are you removing?  What will you be finishing with after stripping?  Lighter/darker than present?  You have a few options, best choice depends on what you are taking off, how much there is, and what is going on it later.

   -Rob

1. 
   WillOBrien | Mar 26, 2002 11:00pm | #2

   The wood is  stained and has some kind of varnish on it. They are now a dark shade of brown and we'd like to stain them a lighter color. The cabinets are in our children's bathroom... they get plenty of wear and tear and right now they have scratches and are pretty beat up.  We don't know what kind of wood it is but it is not a fine wood like Oak etc.  Remember this is a 22 year old house, so whatever would have been typical for the builder to install in a fairly high-end house at that time is what we have in terms of quality etc.  We are looking for a process that a beginner can be successful with.  I suspect that we will be putting a protective coating over the stain (varnish etc.) but that kind of depends on what you all suggest.

   Thanks for the help and if you need more info just let me know.

   Kathy

1. 
   PlaneWood | Mar 27, 2002 03:17am | #4

   Will - Have you thought about just making new doors?

   PlaneWood by Mike_in_KatyPlaneWood

2. 
   Paul_Snyder | Mar 27, 2002 02:41am | #3

   Refinishing covers a lot of ground - completely removing the old finish, bleaching the stripped wood if necessary, determining the type of wood, and applying a new finish that's appropriate to the species of wood and its use. The best advice I can give you is to get some books from your local library or book store (you'll get a lot more info, with pictures, than this media can offer). Armed with detailed guidelines on the stripping process, you can then post specific questions you may have. Once the cabinetry is stripped and the color removed, I'd recommend one of Jeff Jewitt's books for info on applying the new finish along with Bob Flexner's book to help choose the most appropriate finish.

   Here's a brief reply to your questions;

   Q: Can you recommend good chemicals (products) and appropriate steps for her to follow.

   A: I like a semi-paste or paste stripper that is labeled "varnish and paint remover." These will remove most finishes. Bob Flexner's book, "Understanding Wood Finishing," has a chapter with tons of info on strippers, their use, and related safety concerns.

   Q: Any hints (like be sure to put each door in its original place etc.) will be very helpful as she (we) has never done this before.

   A: As I remove each door/drawer from a piece, I label the door/drawer and each hinge. I label doors in the area under the top hinge, each hinge on the side that is hidden when attached to the door, and drawers on the back/bottom. Since you will be stripping the doors, mark them in a way that will not be removed in the refinishing process.

   Q: Also to what extent does she need to be concerned about the chemical breaking down the glue that holds the frame together?

   A: There shouldn't be a problem as long as you don't immerse the doors in stripper and don't use a water wash at the end. Another book for consideration is Bruce Johnson's, "The Weekend Refinisher."

   Good Luck with your project!

   
   

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   Edited 3/26/2002 7:49:29 PM ET by Paul

3. 
   Danford_C_ | Mar 27, 2002 08:47am | #5

   Will,

   Whew!  What a chore to search the archives....

   Any who, the following link will take you to a discussion on strippers that should help...http://www.forums.taunton.com/n/find/findRedir.asp?webtag=tp-knots&mg=E626DB2D-E2CB-4E10-AFFC-E2A89C06AC39

   Well hell, it's easier to copy my damn message than to copy the shortcut....

   The first step would be to evaluate the paint. This determines what type of stripper to use. There is a possibility that there is a clear finish such as shellac over the paint.

   Pour a small amount of denatured alcohol on a horizontal surface and let it stand for a few minutes. Using a cotton ball or tissue paper dab the puddle, if the cotton or tissue sticks, it is shellac and most any stripper will remove it. If the cotton or tissue doesn't stick, use lacquer thinner, let stand, test for sticking. If it sticks it's lacquer if not it is probably varnish. Paint is either oil or water based, and in your case more than likely oil.

   For effective and less invasive stripping you need to do the above test so you can use the proper stripper for the job at hand. Strippers can be broken down into 5 basic categories and manufactures must list the hazardous chemicals. The greater the health hazard the more efficient the stripper. For vertical surfaces you will want to use a paste or gel since they will cling to the surface longer.

   The five categories are: MAT (Methanol, acetone, toluene), Methylene chloride, DBE (dibasic esters) NMP (N-methyl pyrrolidone),and Lye (sodium hydroxide).

   Methylene chloride is the probably the fastest and most efficient of all the types. Which also means the greatest risk to your health. Other than being the most efficient for all types of finishes, it does have an advantage of being non-flammable and it works from the bottom up. This is my preferred type. Because there are no standard respirators rated to handle methylene chloride fumes, this work should only be done outdoors.

   NMP strippers are safer but cost about 2-3 times the cost. Works just as well as the above.

   MAT strippers work well only on shellac and lacquer finishes, have little effect on varnish and no effect at all on paint. They do work from the top down and are excellent for use on clear finished pieces. MAT strippers are extremely flammable. Use in a well ventilated area and use a respirator.

   DBE strippers are the safest, and take the longest to work. They are water based so care must be taken on veneered surfaces to prevent warping.

   Lye is very effective in removing many layers of oil based paint. However, it can stain some woods and can cause fibre damage and I would never use it for restoration purposes.

   Regardless of which type you end up using, follow the manufactures recommendations to the letter. It has been my experience that most people are too impatient when using strippers. Let the stripper do it's thing. When, for example, methylene chloride has done it's job, the finish will appear crinkled and it will lift off the surface with a dull putty knife. The key is patience.

   Unfortuneatly, the best strippers are the most harmful as I stated. So following the manufactures safety procedures is important. As to particular brands I have no favorites as the chemicals are pretty basic. Good luck.

   Dano

   "Form and Function are One" - Frank L. Wright

   
    

   
   

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   Edited 3/27/2002 2:12:39 AM ET by Danford C. Jennings

1. 
   WillOBrien | Mar 27, 2002 02:40pm | #6

   Thanks very much for all of the information, Kathy is all fired-up now to get to work.  Your post have helped a lot, thanks for taking the time to educate us.

   Mike, to answer your questions, I would make her some new doors but personally I plan to enjoy watching her strip... ;)  Seriously, I have a string of other projects to get done so if she waited for me to make her door she would be waiting quite a long time.

   Will

1. 
   Rob_Weiner | Mar 27, 2002 03:11pm | #7

   Will & Kathy-

   Just another vote for Bob Flexner's book.  I had forgotten about it, but it does have a good section on refinishing.

   I would also go for a methylene chloride based gel stripper.  They work quite well on varnishes/stains and tend not to discolor wood so that they can not be refinished with a transparent finish.  DBE strippers don't have enough muscle to get through varnish (in my experience), and caustics can discolor wood.

   I suggest that you start by removing one door, stripping and sanding it, and trying to put on a new stain/finish.  It is truly painful to try to do the whole enchilada to find out that you just can't get the kind of results you were hoping for and taking a whole new course.

   One other caution.  Inspect the doors and cabinets carefully to see if they are veneered.  If they are, you will need to be very gentle in the process to make sure you do not scrape or sand through it.  You can tell by looking at the edges of the doors/frames.  Does the grain indicate that it is one piece of wood, or can you see a grain break at the edge.  If laminated, you may end up finding that you jsut can't do it without ruining the doors.

   Rob's safety rant:  Methylene chloride and  toluene are two common stripping chemicals.  They evaporate quite easily, and they are toxic by inhalation.  Remove the doors from the cabinets and take them somewhere where you can lay them down that has EXCELLENT ventillation.  When working on the doors, where a chemical respirator (on sale at the hardware store right next to the strippers and paints).  If working on cabinets or something that can not be moved, open all the windows, put a fan in one of them , and wear your respirator.

   You may also want to consider sending the doors out to someone who can dip them in a methylene chloride bath.  They are set up to do this without poisoning themselves, and you can focus on the sanding/staining/finishing.

   Best of luck with your "new" cabinets.

   Peace.

   -Rob