Hi,
I saw this comparison in the 25th Anniversary FWW issue. I didn’t get it at all..at the time. I always enjoyed Norm whippin’ out those pieces so effortlessly and just enjoy the tone of his program. Still do.
But….
Did anyone see the episode where he was recreating a piece from the Biltmore in Asheville NC. ? It was some sort of stand with a mirror that folds up or adjusted can’t remember exactly but on the back of the mirror panel is and “H” shaped routed out that will allow a bracket to recess into it and let it sit flat. If you looked close there is a spot of it where Norm sliped about an inch with his router and just leaves it! I’m talking about 3/4″ looks to be 1/2″ deep and a inch long. He doen’t mention it and actually finishes right over it! Now it may be a little finger hold to fold the piece down but the way the peice worked it does so by gravity, so it’s un nessesary. The placement of it has me thinking mistake.
Most of us would have scrapped the piece and started over (actually I doubt most here would make such a greivious error) or plug it. Even if the original design had it we would have engineered it out since it looks bad at best.
This has been bugging me and I just reread the Phyllis Diller Comment again and had to say something.
I like Norm but maybe he needs to know we are actually watching him.
N
Replies
Norm may be a bit if a celebrity to carpenters & woodworkers but it's still a PBS show with a tight shooting schedule and minimal budget. At least he doesn't gouge his fingers & just keep filming like Roy Underhill!
I missed something somewhere, what Phyllis Diller comment?
les
Oh... here ya go....
Page 51 Issue 146 the 25th Ann. issue the middle paragrah mentions a reader saying:
"Norms picture on the cover of FWW is like Phhylis Diller on the cover of Playboy"
I guess it caused quite a stir having Norm on issue #98. Says it took half a year to settle down.
I hope I haven't hit a nerve and like I said I enjoy Norms show although you wouldn't catch me making most of his projects.
N
I have to say "The Phyllis Diller Comment" is an interesting one... I'm thinking about the comparison of FWW and Playboy, I guess I can't see how they are on the same level to make that comment. As far as Norm being on the cover of FWW? If it was Norm himself, lets say visiting his own shop, well, Ok. I'll assume Norm knows how to build furniture the proper way... But Norm of the New Yankee Work Shop, maybe not, since NYW seems to be stuck in beginner mode most of the time and being a commercial venue. I don't know, I'm I being fair here?
My $0.02
Paul
I believe Norm was a carpenter before he took up woodworking which I've always heard is only 1/4 inch tolerance difference. I feel like he has added a lot to the craft through his TV show that has sparked a lot of interest. He is certainly a very pleasant upbeat kind of guy and has skill levels that most people can achieve with practice. I just wish I had the tool bin he does, I wouldn't be surprised if one day he comes up with a nailgun for his left hand and another for his right.
I think a few people are jealous of his success because he has made a lot of money doing something we woodworkers love to do and has made it look so easy.
God Bless
les
FWW aptly described Norm's shopside manner as"folksy". I think that this aspect of his personality more than intrinsic skill accounts for his widespread popularity. I don't know him but I like him.
I well remember the fuss when Norm appeared in FWW.
Every time I go into our local lumber yards, HD, ( or in our area, Menards), and almost any hardware store, I'm amazed at what Norm has started. They are all selling air nailers, expensive and inexpensive tools, and a whole lot of stuff aimed at us woodworkers. Until Norm came along, woodworking was nowhere near the hobby or business that it is now. How lucky the manufacturers and sellers.
Probably more lucky, however, are all of us woodworkers, hobbyists and pros, who got interested, started, and in business because of Norm. Yeah, the businesses and Norm are making money, but we're having all the fun.
Holy Moly, another Norm rant. I wonder if this one will top 100 posts like the last one...
Is there any body here that wouldn't like to have his job ?
whoa Les, isn't a carpenter a woodworker! I was (and still am) a carpenter before becomming a "woodworker". As for the 1/4 inch thing, that is an insult to a true carpenter.
No insult intended Petey, sorry bout that. It is reasonable to me if I was framing a house and a 20' rafter was 1/4 " too short I don't believe I would replace it. However if I was building a bookshelf and a board was 1/4" too short I would replace it.
I had a 1200 sq ft addition built on to a building I owned 20 years ago, I hired a young fellow that was a cabinet builder as a contractor. When he finally finished it I had a perfectly square addition. I saw him take rafters out and have his framers replace them because the crown was down instead of up. When he finished he had not made any money. We recalcalated the job and I paid what we agreed a fair price for the job so he could make some money.
I believe if my contractor had a little more carpenter in him he would have been able to finish a little sooner and within his bid price.
God Bless
les
" It is reasonable to me if I was framing a house and a 20' rafter was 1/4 " too short I don't believe I would replace it. However if I was building a bookshelf and a board was 1/4" too short I would replace it."
Gee,
I don't understand this 1/4 inch stuff. A 1/4" too short is 1/4" too short, what does it do hang in the air? As a "carpenter" it was alway 1/16" depending. Casing a window the closer to "woodworker" you are the better. I usually had no problem doing it right ie; crown up. dang right the workers replace that! Not everything has to be perfect but most crews I did finish work with we plumb and squrared each wall, pulled a string on ceilings and got it all to the 1/16" or less. The bigger the job the more you save by doing right each step of the way.
Now on the other hand I was more than once advised "we're not making violins around here" and too loosen up a bit. But a better carpenter will get it closer faster, and right the first time. That's what ya get the big bucks for.
N
I had a fellow replace my front double doors on my home a few years back. He was in his mid 70's did a great job. He related a story that had happened earlier in his career. He was hanging doors in a high dollar house being built for a lady professional. She would drop in at odd times to check up on how things were going. He had mortised out for a door hinge a little too deep and had cut a piece of cardboard to fill in behind the hinge. The lady walked up while he was doing this and inquired what was he doing. He told her he was cushioning the doors, they were such fine heavy doors this was the right way to do it. She accepted this and went on her way. A while later the contractor came and inquired what had he told lady about cushioning the doors. He told the contractor what had happened. The contractor said that was fine, now she wants all the doors cushioned.
I don't know if he went back and cushioned the rest of the doors but he enjoyed telling me the story.
God Bless
les
For me it was " your not building a church " Anyway I know a lot of framers who shoot for a 1/4 and settle for a half..I always strive to cut to the line. ( with a wormdrive) Petey
Transferred from another post...
Norm and New Yankee Workshop should be put into perspective.
To become successful AND remain viable, any media must have a significant audience. Since the majority of woodworkers are not expert, but hobbyists, it is understandable that the producers of the show must deliver a show that "most" woodworkers can relate to. Hence, the projects are pretty straightforward and encourage only a little bit of new skill development. As such, both the novice and the intermediate woodworker can be entertained by NYW, if not taught or reminded about something.
From my reading of the critics of NYW, it is that Norm either relies too heavily on tools or takes shortcuts. He'll use a brad nailer and a lap joint rather than hand-cutting a dovetail, etc., etc. My internpretation of the critics of NYW is that they also tend to be woodworkers with more expertise than most of us... maybe more than Norm.
Take the converse, if there was a show on TV that looked more like "Master" section of FWW, it may very likely fail as a commercial enterprise. There simply and probably are not enough "experts" out there to generate the television ratings necessary. Also, the time needed to cover a significant project with lots of "expert detail" would likely be significant. It might take 2 or 3 shows to actually show progress. The New Yankee Workshop usually takes the viewer from start to finish of a decent size project in only 30 minutes.
An answer to those critics of NYW is "don't lose your cool". The New Yankee Workshop isn't necessary produced specifically for you. But if you like to be entertained and see something get built, Norm is a decent 1/2 hour for most woodworkers.
I have no hang ups with Norm. I may not agree with his use of power tools and joinery but you can always pick up a few tips and tricks from his show. Thats the cool thing about this biz, your always learning something new!!!!!
Norm has definitly found a profitable nitch. You gotta admire that. I'll always like his show, as a matter of fact, he inspired me to buy my first tablesaw and give this woodworking thing a try. Watching his show was the first time I'd ever even seen a board become something besides a building. His projects are simple and his tecniques are less then ideal, but they inspired me to look for more. My skills have massively improved since my first project, but there may have been no first project if I hadn't been able to watch him. I personally think the morons who knock him are egotistical as hell. He doesn't try to be something he isn't. He doesn't call it the New 18th Centuary Furiture Reproduction Specialist Work Shop, no, he's honest, which is something his critics should aspire too. I guess what I'm saying is that I think his show is aimed at the woodworking curious, not the 40 year vetrens. I'm glad I had a chance to watch it and now I look forward to a lifetime of trying to get better at woodworking. Shish, I'm glad I got that off my chest!
Steve
"I personally think the morons who knock him are egotistical as hell. He doesn't try to be something he isn't."
Hmmmm.....
I said I like Norm and appreciatte his show. Does he get a free ticket to have embarrassingly obviuous mistakes. No. I sure as heck don't.
Being egotistical would fall under the heading critiqueing his wood choices, or his actual technique, his tools. Perhaps slamming his choice of project. I'm mentioning something that would be un acceptable in any area of woodworking.
BTW Did you see This Old House recently when they where doing a bathroom remodel? Norm and Tom were ripping the previous contractors a new one..rightfully so. So it goes with the territory.
Like I keep saying I like Norm and even if I'm in the shop on Saturday will plan a break to sit and watch what he's doing.
N
Sorry, I worded that wrong, I wasn't trying to knock you! I was aiming at the guys who got all bent out of shape at him being on the cover of FWW. My apologies. After I posted I read yours again and thought to myself "hope he dosen't think I'm going off on him". Guess I goofed that up.
Norm certainly is human, thats for sure. I remember the episode with the Biltmore dressing table and when you mentioned the router goof, I remembered seeing it too. I thought the best part of that episode was the tour of the esate. Quite a place, or should I say palace?
Nah I can't watch This Old House or New Yankee now, unless their reruns on HGTV. I have a DSS and there is some stupid dispute with PBS so I can't watch it unless I put a awful looking antenna on top of my house. Ridiculous. I get a kick out of Tom's sometimes undiplomatic critques of previous work. Especially the plumbers who hack up structural elements. Fun show isn't it?
Sorry again for the remark. Wish I would have worded thatmore carefully.
Steve
" I never understood the hang up woodworkers have with his tool belt."
Being a west coast guy who cut my teeth on framing crews I never understood why those This Old House guys wear their tool belts backwards anyway<G> It was always worth a laugh (or at least a 2x4 flung in your direction) if you turn your tool belt backwards and say " Hey look I'm Norm". Although this would leave your hammer hangin' down in front... OK I better stop.
And I still consider one of the most dangerous tools the side winder circular saws east coasters are so fond of. Give me a worm drive Skill 77 any day or any saw where I can see the blade without leaning over a motor.
N
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