So I have read way to many posts here and elsewhere regarding nailers in the shop… enough to confuse my purchase decision. I am a newby at woodowrking and just in the process of setting up a small shop in my garage. I need to start with building some cabinets just to clear the way. I will be working with 3/4 ply for the most part. I work alone and see the advantages of a nailer in assembly. But I need help picking a tool for my needs… brad or finish nailer? Or do I need both? My budget is a bit limited as I want to save for the tools that I will need to do the projects I am setting up a shop for. I understand the advantages of buying quailty but wonder if this tool can be a cheapy or should I go with name brands like Senco or inbetween like PC?
Sorry for the long post and thanks for the help.
bit
Replies
Don't take this the wrong way please, but if your budget is limited why not just use a hammer?
As a DIY who plays at woodworking, I have had a Craftsman <don't shoot me>16 ga. finish nailer for several years and it has done well for my use. It is big enough for attaching hardwood 3/4" boards together and small enough for most of my stuff. I'm afraid a brad nailer would be too small for my projects (shelves, chests, tables). It was cheap and available when I was looking and I haven't regretted it yet. But I only play at woodworking when the boss doesn't have other plans so what do I know.
Lefty - Lurker without an attitude or a clue
Ben has a good point. Nailers are fairly inexpensive however the next real cost is the compressor. Do you buy one that will just get you by or do you invest in one that is adequate for you to use when spray painting? Is that one big enough to use for other air tools? The list goes on. If you're on a limited budget, a nailer wouldn't be very high on my list.
If you have access to rebuilt tools via a local outlet, by all means buy them. They come with full dealer warranty and if you can hand pick them, many times they are new but for various reasons are sold as rebuilt. The price of a rebuilt and new can be enough so you can obtain additional tools and still not exceed your budget.
Roger
When I was on staff at Oregon St University's Forest Products Department I wrote an Extension Publication on Pneumatic Nailers so I hope my comments will have some credibility.
By all means buy a nailer -- a hammer is almost outmoded technology in today's shops because afterall, time is money. Pneumatic nailers are faster, don't require two hands to operate (unless there is someone else stupid enough to hold a nail for you while you pound) and when used properly, reduce splitting. They also will set the fastener so you can avoid using nail sets.
The primary differences between finish nailers and brad nailer are fastener thickness and fastener length. Nail withdrawal resistance is dependent on depth of penetration and fastener diameter. Nailed joint shear strength is almost entirely dependent on fastener diameter. Nail selection (length) is more or less exactly the same as if you were to hand nail.
In practical terms this means that you need a finish nailer for carcass assemby (if you are depending on the nails to be your primary joining system) and a brad nailer for trim application. This is great news because you get two toys instead of one!
As you are not in commercial production, you don't need the top of the line. Get a good, middlin' finish nailer and an inexpensive (though not the very cheapest) brad nailer. The fasteners are expensive so get only the sizes you currently need and add other sizes later.
Thanks for the feedback. I truly appreciate all of it... in particular the post by NIEMIEC1. That was the sort of information I was looking for. Yes, I have a 5HP/30gallon 220volt compressor. And true, I could just use a hammer. But as I mentioned I work alone and without more than a few clamps I find assembly cumbersome. I suppose I shouldn't have said "limited budget" but rather that I want to be frugal at this point until I really understand what tools I will need in the future. That said I don't want to underpsend and sacrafice features or quality on something that I will make more use of later. To that end I have tuned my circular saw, bought a quality blade, built a cutting table and a saw guide (from articles here at FWW and FHB) and will do my ripping with them. A table saw is in the not too distant future but first I need to clear a space and that brings me back to my original post. I am trying my best to do things with forthought and a little enlightenment. And that's why I am posting and reading here.
Thanks,
bit
Senco 40 finishing nailer. Drives 16 gauge (i think ... might be 15) up to 2.5 inches. Great device. And it's oil-less. That's a big plus.
For brad nailer, I have a Porter Cable. Capable and cheap.
I write without being much of an expert on nailers, but do have several. If your are assembling cabinets, tables, etc., of 3/4" plywood, then I would think that an 18 guage would be fine. I am assuming that you are using the nailer as a quick clamp, holding pieces till the glue dries. In 18 ga., Senco, and liekly others, have a range of lengths of 2+ down to either 5/8 or 3/4. From your description, this would seem to be plenty for your uses. You will find tha the nailer offers a distinct advantage when it comes to splitting woods. No pre-drilling here.
I had to look up this discussion, I am in the same ball park. Not to sure about power nailers. Do allot of woodworking on my own and need to squeeze out as much time as possible when in the shop. your suggestions are appreciated
Edited 1/29/2003 5:44:58 PM ET by woodchuck
So I have sort of boiled it down to these. All from Amazon
with free shipping and an additional $10 off the prices listed through
tomorrow. Tempted by Harbor Freight cheapies but...
Porter-Cable BN200A 18 Gauge, 3/4" to 2" $99
Senco SLP20 18 Gauge, 5/8" to 1-5/8" oil free $139
Senco FP25XP 18 Gauge, 5/8" to 2-1/8" oil free made in USA $149
bit
Edited 1/30/2003 1:09:45 PM ET by Bitman
I have the Senco 23 ga. pin nailer and it is great! As to the $50 difference, I would think that turns on the amount of your expected usage. I have a PC stapler, used for installing luan sub-floor a few times, that has worked fine in light usage.
I don't use a nail for anything structural (joinery). If you have a drill, use drywall screws or better yet, "Supersinkers". With that said I have 3 nailers - Accuset 23 ga pinner, a no name 18 ga brad and an Airy 16 ga finish. I use them for quick jigs and trim work. If I were you, I'd squeeze every woodworking nickel until the buffalo sh*ts to save up for a table saw.
John O'Connell - JKO Handcrafted Woodworking
Life is tough. It's tougher if you're stupid - John Wayne
I have read nailers are more for contractors, professional cabinet makers, and not priced quite right yet for the home craftsmen or hobbyist. Is this true?
NO! Especially if you already have an air compressor.
I appreciate your reply. An air compressor is a given, I guess these nailors havent been out too long, an emphatic no in your reply must mean they are an asset definitely to the shop. I guess one could start out with a smaller,less expensive model but I dont know there are so many other tools I need.
There's a whole bunch of choices for finish and brad nailers. Even the Senco's in these sizes aren't all that expensive. If i were to buy another brad gun I'd look into the combination stapler/brad guns for the added versatility. Good roofing and Framing nailers are expensive. They have to drive big nails with precise depth control especially for sheathing since the head must be flush without breaking the skin to pass inspection. If you don't have a good gun you have to leave them high and go back and set them by hand. I see mostly Senco's, Hitachi's, and some Bostich guns on job sites.John O'Connell - JKO Handcrafted Woodworking
Life is tough. It's tougher if you're stupid - John Wayne
Once again, I appreciate your advice. its good to see some firsthand information, i am a little confused about the myriad of options. i am very precise when it comes to driving nails and screws-dont really like to use them allot, thought i could learn quickly but would hate to make a mistake on a nice project(drive the nail thru completely!) i guess ease of use is a concern, not much can go wrong with a good hammer and nail set, but maybe its old-fashioned. you mean some of these guns can shoot different size(diameter) nails? Is setting the depth trial and error depending on the wood or application?
I'm not aware of any guns that will shoot more than 1 gauge of nail. Depth control on guns used for sheathing are pretty much the norm these days which eliminates a lot of trial and error. Finish nailers and smaller should set the nails for you. This is main advantage of pneumatic guns over electric. Most electrics won't set a brad into hardwood. I prefer screws to nails because of the mechanical advantage. If you do get a nailer you will learn to be very carefull in keeping the gun aligned or you'll get 'shiners' which really suck to fix. On smaller pieces of near ends you will also want to orient the nail so that the chisel goes cross-grain, otherwisw they can act like wedges and split the wood.John O'Connell - JKO Handcrafted Woodworking
Life is tough. It's tougher if you're stupid - John Wayne
well, i went down to Lowes and bought a Senco 18 gauge nailer, its not oil free which gives me cause to want to take it back. Should I? the nails i bought were Bostich and dont fit the gun, have to return those anyway. i see tool crib has an 18 gauge nailer(oilless) for around the same price. by the way $10 rebate on senco nailers(at least at Lowes)
One of the WW Mags recently checked out the smaller nailers, the only one that they didn't have something good to say about was Craftsman, they couldn't get either of the two they bought to work. I opted to buy the PC 3/4" to 2 1/2" with the little pancake compressor. It was rated well, easy too load and unload, it uses 16 gauge nails a little fatter than the 18 gauge. I have only used it on one job so far and I really like it. Senco has a high rating as well as Pasload. One thing stuck in my mind while I was shopping I have a friend, a finish carpenter who has several nailguns. I remember when he bought his first one about 10 years ago a, Pasload, it recently broke he took it by the Pasload shop in 15 minutes he was back in his truck with his gun repaired. Now his other guns have had their problems but he has had to leave them or order parts when they broke. The reason I didn't buy a Pasload there wasn't one in front of me when I was ready to buy.
God Bless
les
in my small commercial cabinet shop i have two 18 ga nailers, couldnt go without them, i glue everthing as well so the nails are just a clamp substitute while glue sets up
I ordered the Senco FP25XP 18gauge. I'll post a review once I get it.
bit
I bought a Senco FinishPro 18 gauge. It is not oil less. Is that going to make a difference? Stains?
Got the FP25XP. Fired off a bunch of brads and messed around with the depth adjustment. Seems like a nice tool. Light and well balanced. Easy load. I did have trouble setting the "turbo" adjustment. Instructions are very superficial if not lame. Called Senco support on Saturday fully expecting no answer. But surprise I got a very helpful tech. She could not help me but called her tech specialist on his cell phone and got the answer. Now that is unusual customer support.
bit
In my neck of the woods, the local supplier carries the top brands.
I own a couple of the Bostich nailers.
When one stopped working, I brought it to the Bostich rep who comes to them quite often.
He fixed it for free while I waited, needed one o ring, which he gave
me for free.
I guess I can't argue about service.
The guns seem to work great and really aren't that expensive.
Jeff
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