Replies

1. 
   Alan | Jul 11, 2002 09:32pm | #1

   Ken,

   I'm not sure I understand what you're asking.  A leg joint for a coffee table top?

   Do you mean how to join the legs to the top?  If so, what is the design of the table?  Is there a skirt?  Stretchers?  Or is it just four legs and a slab?

   Alan

2. 
   UncleDunc | Jul 11, 2002 09:58pm | #2

   Also, does it just need to resist normal childhood wear and tear such as children bumping into it, putting their feet on it, and pushing it around, or does it need to resist a child trying determinedly to disassemble it?

1. 
   kenewald | Jul 12, 2002 10:29pm | #3

   Valid questions.

   The table top is complete and I don't know how to do furniture legs.  Work benches I can handle, but this is going to take a little more finesse (I suppose) and less brute force and functional ugly.

   The 'slab' (table top) is made of 3 10"x10"x1/2" squares bordered by 1-1/2" Oak.  I pieced together school house "quilting" blocks out of walnut, red oak, oak, and ash.

   B1

   B2

   B3

   The table top is flush.  The block borders are 1" thicker.

   I'm not concerned about the children taking it apart, they've all grown past that stage .. I think, but I'm sure they're going to sit on it (when I'm not around) and lean back on two legs like they were riding a bull or something.  Mostly, I don't want it in the "put it in dad's shop, he'll fix it" queue.

   I suppose I could put a skirt around the bottom .. then, what?  Bolt the legs to the skirt?  Yuk.

1. 
   UncleDunc | Jul 13, 2002 01:06am | #4

   Well, what I would probably do is make a box out of 3/4" AC fir ply that would be a slip fit inside the border around the top, screw it into the border from the inside, and put some generous corner braces in the bottom. I'd take some care to make sure the A side was on the outside, but if I screwed up, I probably wouldn't take it apart to fix it.

   An alternative that might be more attractive would start with the same 1-1/2" square stock you used for the border. Cut four legs and cut a 7/8" x 3/16" rabbit on two sides of each leg. This will allow the border of the table top to rest on the shoulders of the legs rather than having the 1/2" thick part of the top resting on the tops of the legs. The cut apron pieces out of 1x4 oak and attach them to the inside of the border between the legs. This will give you a 3/16" reveal at the vertical joint between the legs and the ends of the apron pieces. Finally, hold the whole thing together with table leg corner braces like the ones at http://www.rockler.com/ecom7/findprod.cfm?&DID=6&filter=braces&sku=782 If that URL doesn't work, go to http://www.rockler.com/ and search for "corner brackets for table aprons". There are other vendors. Rockler is just the first one I came across.

   I'm sure someone will come along and offer suggestions that really are fine woodworking. Mine clearly is not. :) But I think it would be pretty durable.

2. 
   Alan | Jul 13, 2002 02:09am | #5

   Ken,

   I think Unc is on to something.  I would worry about the legs being stuck nearly all the way out on the corners, though.  I think that might look a little inelegant.

   I think I would make a skirt, mortised into the tops of the legs, so I could get the legs a bit inside the line of the top.  With your design parameters I would make the legs out of sturdy stuff--maybe even 2" square--with a slight taper.  This way you could get the legs inset a bit, but still build out the apron at the corners so you could attach it to the edge banding too.  You might also just connect the top with some grooves along the apron boards, some L shaped toggles and screws.

   For strength I would put on "H" stretchers:  a stretcher connecting the end legs, and one long stretcher the length of the apron, connecting the middles of the short stretchers.

   Alan

3. 
   BG | Jul 15, 2002 04:33am | #6

   ken,

   I got teenagers...and a coffee table that resembles the strength of a sherman tank.  I made it from 6/4 Ash with bread board edges and turned legs.  The legs were made from two pieces of 6/4 ash glued and morticed to receive the the 4" apron.  It is not necessary to mortice if you use the Rockler braces..and you can taper the legs rather than turn.   

1. 
   kenewald | Jul 16, 2002 10:03pm | #7

   Thank you Uncle Dunc, Alan and BG for taking the time to reply.  I appreciate your time greatly.  Those are all excellent ideas. 

   I'll need to dado out the cross borders (between A-B and B-C) for the skirt. Just curious, why use plywood for the skirt?  Is it stronger?

   I like the idea of a mortise joint and the "H" stretcher.   What are your recommendations for tools?  I'll bet there are specialty tools for this, right?  I don't have a plunger router .. so, I suppose I could use the drill press to cut out the receiving ends and finish them out with a chisel??

   Thanks again,

   -Ken

1. 
   UncleDunc | Jul 16, 2002 10:48pm | #8

   >> I'll need to dado out the cross borders ...

   I'd probably notch the skirt instead, just because it would be easier than notching the table top. Since the skirt will be attached to the inside edge of the border, you'd have to be on the floor to see the difference.

   >> ... why use plywood for the skirt?

   I had to go back and look. The only reference I found to plywood was in the first paragraph of my message, which was intended as a joke, proposing a robust but very, very ugly solution. In the second paragraph, which was the real suggestion, I specified oak, to match the oak border you already have on the table top.

1. 
   kenewald | Jul 16, 2002 11:06pm | #9

   I plead Ignorant .. on both counts.  (I know, it's no excuse .. but in my case, it's a reason)

   I saw some articles on laminating plywood edges in the Fine Woodworking magazines and thought you were serious ..  at least I thought plywood had it's place in "Fine" woodworking .. I just wasn't sure where.  Looks like it might be best left for work benches and flooring (A side up!).  Does the "A" stand for something or is it just the best "grade" (pardon the pun)?

   I'll notch the skirt.  Thank you Uncle Dunc, or shall I call you Dr. Dunc?

   -Ken

1. 
   UncleDunc | Jul 17, 2002 12:57am | #10

   I certainly believe plywood has a place in fine woodworking, but AC fir ply isn't what they were talking about. Here's a site that explains the face grades for softwood ply. http://www.phillipsplywood.com/softwood_generalinfo.htm Hardwood plywoods are a little more complicated. The same site probably has a page on hardwoods, but I didn't try to track it down.

   You might want to go easy on the praise. If the real experts start critiquing my suggestion, it could get pretty embarassing. Maybe I should insert the disclaimer I left out of my earlier message, that my suggestion is not fine woodworking. The one with the mortise and tenon joints is, if executed correctly.

   And with that, I'm off the air for several weeks. I'm going to Russia to help shepherd the 3 kids my brother and his wife are adopting.

2. 
   kenewald | Jul 17, 2002 06:29pm | #11

   Best of luck on your trip.  And thanks for you honored advice.  I appreciate it.

2. 
   Alan | Jul 17, 2002 09:17pm | #12

   Ken,

   You're right:  there are all kinds of specialty tools for you to buy, including dedicated mortise making machines.  But you're also right that you can do just as well with a drill press and some sharp chisels.  Or, if you like using hand tools, you can pick up a first rate mortising chisel for about twenty dollars.

   One tip:  cut the mortise first and then make the tenon to fit.  The width of the mortise will be determined by the size drill bit--or mortise chisel--that you use.  It's lots easier to make the thickness of the tenon match the width of the mortise than making the width of the mortise match the tenon.

   Alan 

4. 
   timburnisher | Jul 18, 2002 06:56am | #13

   You could always consider making the base trestle style instead of four leg and apron style.  Trestle tables of any sort have the capacity to be incredibly strong and stable, and it might be the best look for such a thick top.  The Soul of A Tree by George Nakashima has several pictures of trestle style coffee tables with thick slab tops.  I'd say that probably two large book ends connected with a few strechers dadoed into the top and bottom of each book end would provide very good strength and an alternative design look.  Just something else to consider.

   Tim