Replies

1. 
   RickL | Jun 07, 2006 05:09pm | #1

   Bridgewood and Shopfox have a clone of the W & H for half the price.  Schmidt sells the jig for doing curves and  there is a variable feed available. http://www.cggschmidt.com/assets/pdf/WandHBrocFeedMstr0705.pdf

2. 
   charlesstanford | Jun 07, 2006 06:02pm | #2

   Mikron... if the budget can stand it....

   I *think* the cuts on the Hussey must be made in one pass at full depth.  We had a Hussey and some of the guys used it on simpler profiles but all the radius stuff was done on the Mikron.

   You can make as many passes as you need on the Mikron and do the really deep, wide profiles popular at the moment.

   
   

   ---

   Edited 6/7/2006 11:34 am ET by charlesstanford

1. 
   RickL | Jun 07, 2006 07:03pm | #3

   http://www.usconceptsinc.com/index2.html

   Actually this is better than the Mikron.  I know a guy with a Mikron and he's not totally happy with it. When he saw the US Concepts machine he plans to sell his Mikron and get the USC.

1. 
   charlesstanford | Jun 07, 2006 07:05pm | #4

   Just commenting on a machine I've actually run in a production environment.

   Have you actually used the machine you linked to?

1. 
   RickL | Jun 07, 2006 07:57pm | #5

   I think my post was fairly clear. My friend has the Mikron and he's not terribly happy with it. He's seen the USC and feels it addresses the shortcomings of the Mikron. The Mikron looks better on paper. I was kind of surprised when I  saw the Mikron in person. My friend does curved moulding as his business so he uses the machine daily and has pushed it to it's limits. He also has a Shopbot which he is very happy with.

1. 
   charlesstanford | Jun 07, 2006 08:04pm | #6

   I have a friend who has had all kind of trouble out of his USC moulder.

3. 
   user-164546 | Jun 08, 2006 06:15am | #7

   Take a look at Compressed Wood from Fluted Beams http://www.flutedbeams.com/compressedwood.html). You may find that the molder is not always required for bent millwork anymore.

1. 
   dgreen | Jun 08, 2006 06:30am | #8

   Interesting, but at 22 bucks a bd. ft. I don't think I'll chuck my molder just yet.
   Since the house is on fire let us warm ourselves. ~Italian Proverb

1. 
   user-164546 | Jun 10, 2006 06:04am | #22

   I didn't mean to imply a recommendation to "chuck the molder" in favor of compressed wood. Just that, if a buying decission is being made to aquire a molder, there are other options for low volume. The compressed wood is way over-kill for moldings though. It is meant for more extreme bends, and it is priced as the highly engineered product that it is.

2. 
   dgreen | Jun 08, 2006 06:47am | #10

   SPAM
   Since the house is on fire let us warm ourselves. ~Italian Proverb

4. 
   mudman | Jun 08, 2006 06:44am | #9

   If you are making the shallow (cheeper) mouldings commonly used in new construction the WH is fine. But you can only make one pass with that machine so deep cuts, like those in highend crown and casing can't be done.

   Mike

   Pardon my spelling,

   Mike

   Make sure that your next project is beyond your skill and requires tools you don't have. You won't regret it.

5. 
   jimscustomwoodworks | Jun 08, 2006 04:12pm | #11

   thanks guys (& gals if appropriate) i am looking to do mainly arched princton type casing at this time & frequently am in need of custom re-creation crowns. it sounds like i would need to spend around 1500-2000.00 for the w-h & a lot more for the larger moulders. at this time the w-h is hard to swing money wise so i will probably end up with that one unless you dont think i am thinking right here, thanks again gang! 

1. 
   charlesstanford | Jun 08, 2006 04:20pm | #12

   Jim, you just aren't going to be able to do deep profiles at all.  Keep that in mind.

1. 
   jimscustomwoodworks | Jun 08, 2006 09:06pm | #13

   charles, how deep is too deep? thanks so much for your input

    

1. 
   charlesstanford | Jun 08, 2006 09:25pm | #14

   I've done radiused moldings that were two inches thick at the thickest point and probably about a half inch at the thinnest point.  You most definitely could not do these on the Hussey.  We did these for arched doorways for an upscale boutique.  Of course they were done in several passes.  These mouldings also had an undercut profile that we did by hand with shop-made scratch stocks.  It was one helluva job.  We also did the cherry handrailing for the winders at the FedEx corporate headquarters in Memphis. 

   You might get away with a profile that has a 1/4" change on the Hussey; I'd imagine anything more than that would probably have unacceptable tearout.   If you ask the sales staff, they'll give you the names of a few users in your area that you can call.  I'm not a W&H expert.  I bought out a smaller millwork shop and one came with the deal and some of my guys, who had used one before, would run simple door casings on it if the Mikrons were busy (and they usually were).  We ran five Mikrons at our peak and kept them busy eight hours a day.  I can tell you that the deep profiled stuff was, and still is, very popular. 

   I think the Hussey was a little workhorse.  I don't recall any complaints or service calls.  It does what it does well.  A machine in that price range is going to have limitations, though.  Maybe there's a workaround.  I don't know.  We had the machines in place to do the deep profiles so there wasn't a lot headscratching about how we could push the W&H.

    

    

   Edited 6/8/2006 2:30 pm ET by charlesstanford

1. 
   mudman | Jun 09, 2006 07:01am | #18

   The WH will cut deeper than 1/4" I know that 5/8 is well within its capability. But as you said, if you are going to make mouldings it should be better than what is already commonly availible.

    Pardon my spelling,

   Mike

   Make sure that your next project is beyond your skill and requires tools you don't have. You won't regret it.

2. 
   QCInspector | Jun 08, 2006 09:45pm | #15

   The W&H will cut to 3/4" deep, and a second light pass (1/32 or 1/16) can be run if necessary.
   Search past discussions and you'll get more info on it's capabilities. I'm not a pro so mine has not been heavily used but I'm happy with it.
   On one of the past posts I gave info on a curved kit that is available from Quebec for $100 Canadian. I bought it but haven't set it up and tried it yet.

1. 
   charlesstanford | Jun 08, 2006 09:54pm | #16

   Does the 3/4" cut have to happen in one pass?

2. 
   DougU | Jun 09, 2006 06:24am | #17

   Charles

   I'm with you on the Mirkon.

   I've ran both the W & H and Mirkon, no comparison. Obviously they were not created to do the same job though.

   If the budget will allow it I'd get the Mirkon,  maybe that guy that said his friend doesnt like his will sell it cheap!

   Doug

3. 
   QCInspector | Jun 09, 2006 12:40pm | #19

   If the profile you want to cut is a full 3/4" deep then the knives are ground to cut that way. If you need a profile that is only 1/4" deep, then the knives are made accordingly.The blades of the W&H are bolted in the cutter head and since the feed rollers are pretty much fixed (there is some tension adjustment) in relation to the blades you must take the cut in one pass. Then it is possible to take a very light pass to cleanup any tear out or chatter (depends on how much of the remaining profile contacts the rollers).If you try to run in 2 or 3 passes the feed rollers won't be in contact with the wood and it would be fired back at you. Much the same as (I presume ), putting wood through a shaper with a power feed that is a 1/4 inch from the stock. One possible work around might be to make separate pressure blocks or fingerboards in front and behind the machine to hold down the stock (straight cutting only)and push and pull the wood through. The early W&H machines did not have power feed so for thicker stock it might work.If the profile is wide and deep you can use a set of blades that are ground to take off the bulk of the waste on a first pass. Then change them for the profile set on the second pass. The advantage that it's easier on the machine and since the blades don't work as hard they may stay sharper longer. Disadvantage is the cost of the roughing blades.It always amazes me as to how big the chips are that can come out the machine and yet the molding is so clean.Another way of roughing some of the waste is to use the table saw and dado set. Unless you have a power feed for the saw it might be a little tedious for large runs.The W&H, like all molders and shapers, shares one thing in common. A selection of knives is not cheap. Which is probably the reason that there aren't more of them around in home shops.

4. 
   charlesstanford | Jun 09, 2006 04:28pm | #21

   Thanks for the information.

3. 
   loucarabasi | Jun 10, 2006 12:06pm | #23

   Hey Jim, sorry to interrupt, But remember that you can design knives to mimick some of the deep profiles that you are looking for. I have used my W-H molder in many ways that no one said you could ever do. Heres how you can do a arch radius molding.

   -Lou

   
1. 
   jimscustomwoodworks | Jun 20, 2006 04:07pm | #24

   thanks for the pix, how about arched flat moldings?

6. 
   blad51 | Jun 09, 2006 01:01pm | #20

   The Williams and Hussey is far superior than any other machine on the market in my opinion. It's very easy to learn and extremely versitale.  The reason it's such a good machine is because it's a fairly basic setup. There's no need for expensive jigs or anyother special accessories. I work for a major window and door company in so. cal. and we use a w & m for all our curved casings. All the jigs I've used are made from mdf for the curved fences that match the radius and hardwood featherboards as guides. I've use the w & h for an emergency backup for my planer  and jointer as well. It's also great for straight moldings  too. But the most important reason the w & h is the best is because it is so low-maintenance. We've used the same machine for over ten years now, almost everday,  in a production envirnment and it's still going strong. we've used other machines in our attempt to stay modern but we always end up going back to the w & h. I say go for it!

   jeremy