Replies

1. 
   Alan | Apr 20, 2002 02:44am | #1

   Dan,

   A little while ago there was a thread called--if I remember correctly--"what tablesaw to buy, arrrrggghhh" in which I, and others, opined that having a table saw would be very nice, but not really necessary.  I'm with you: I believe a band saw makes a lot more sense than a table saw if you have not the money or space for many stationary power tools.  You might want to see if you can find that thread.

   Alan

2. 
   Denis364 | Apr 20, 2002 08:57pm | #2

   Hi Dan:

   What machines you get really depends upon what type of woodworking you do.  Your list seems like a good starting point and I like the fact your getting good quality tools. 

   My only comment is that, with five children, you give a lot of thought to how you are going to prevent unauthorized use of the tools when you are not around.

   Be safe,

   Dennis

3. 
   sschefer | Apr 20, 2002 09:23pm | #3

   Dan, what you have is a list of tools for people that work primarily with dimensional lumber thats squared 4 sides and sheet goods. I know you've heard all the raving over the band saw and its true. A band saw in the proper hands nearly negates the need for a table saw. The question is, how much time do you have to learn to use it properly? I didn't see any blades on your list either. The saw wont accomodate all of the things you can do on a table saw without a few other blades. I know, a table saw needs blades too.

   Personally, for the amount of time you have to work, I would buy a contractors table saw of good quality and a couple of decent blades. You'd save a couple of hundred more that way and still have the mobility needed in a small space. Who knows, with the money you save you could buy a portable planer and save money not having to buy that dimensional s4s lumber.

   Steve - in Northern California

4. 
   tablesaw635 | Apr 20, 2002 10:17pm | #4

   Hi Dan-

   Congrats on getting to set up your shop- I'm sure you'll have a ball.  In addition to the feedback that others have provided, I'd also like to chime in with a question: why such an expensive drill press?  Now before folks start to call me a tightwad (ok, sometimes I am one), I'll recognize that it is only $350, but even still, I've been using a little benchtop Craftsman ($90 new) for 5 years, and I just can't for the life of me figure out why a bigger would would be worth spending an extra $250+ on.  I use my little one only once a week or so, and even then, its just for a few minutes here and there-- for the way I work (which means that this may not apply to you at all!) that extra money would be much better spent on a planer, as Steve suggested.  You can pick up the 12 1/2" Delta portable for $299 these days, and you'll immediately start saving really quite a bit of money on not having stuff milled to S4S at the lumberyard.

   Regarding the bandsaw vs. tablesaw debate, I fall on into the camp that just can't imagine life without a tablesaw at the center of my shop.  For that reason, I've always been curious about those who maintain that the right bandsaw can supercede a TS in terms of importance: I don't doubt it, actually, but I can't quite figure out how it could work for me.  Perhaps this is largely a question of the type of work you want to do??  The Laguna is a great-looking saw, so I'd say that if you're inclined towards it (and not getting a tablesaw), go for it.  I suppose I'm not really the right person to advise you there, as biased as I am.

   On the drill press thing, why do you want such a big one?  Maybe I'm just missing the boat here, and it turns out that having a wimpy drill press has set me back years compared to everyone else, but I'm just curious about why you're making a relatively high priority of this?

   Have fun in your planning,

   Chris Gleason

   Gleason Tableworks

   http://www.interestingfurniture.com

5. 
   Vibart2 | Apr 21, 2002 07:03am | #5

   You could Go with the Grizzly G7946 for $179.95 it works great & is only a little more than half the cost of the one your looking at. I have one. Then look at a good planer. I have a older portable Grizzly that works fine. This way you have 2 tools for a little over the cost of the one your considering. The planer will save you money. How ever if you consider what you want to make the most, if it is curved projects buy the band saw. If it is case goods get the Grizzly G1023SL. In fact most shops I know of started with a table saw a jointer & a planer. Cut the material, square the material, thickness the material. I don’t necessarily recommend Craftsman tools even though I have several & have never had a problem with them. I would recommend the G1023SL Cabinet saw & the G1182HW Jointer. You can see my little shop at this address it is a new site & still needs lot of work. But I'd really rather be in the shop.  http://bartswoodshop.freeservers.com/

   

6. 
   JoeCoty | Apr 21, 2002 07:15pm | #6

   Dan,

   I'm probably five years ahead of you in "setting up shop". Not having the benefit of a traditional apprenticeship one has to accelerate knowledge and skills from books, articles and forums. In addition, quality machinery can bridge some of the time necessary to learn hand tool technique. My premise was that since I didn't truly know what I was getting I bought tools from industry leaders like Delta and Jet. These tools are also specifically covered in books when learning to setup and maintain them.

   My first industrial tool was a Delta 14" which I have only recently begun using 4 years after purchase. I soon found that not only was I underestimating the big machine needs but I also was severely deficient in quality hand tools. Something that the tool catalogs don't tell you is that hand tools are always required to back up and clean up what the dedicated machines don't accomplish. To that I've spent at least $2500 this past year purchasing quality chisels, planes, and measuring instruments.

   Which brings another point those machines all need to be brought in to calibration which requires a reliable machined square, straight edge, dial caliper, and steel rules as a minimum. In a small shop plan on a mobile base- you won't regret it. Blades and bits are also a considerable investment. When I was dependent on my table mounted router for everything I spent 300 to 400 dollars in bits. The unisaw required almost $500 in blades.

   After the bandsaw I bought a Jet 6" jointer followed by a Dewalt planer. Many of these tools had been idle waiting for the rest of the shop to catch up. But I couldn't imagine getting very far without those three tools. Even if you buy S4S, the stock is rarely perfect by the time you use it, and fine adjustments to make a piece fit can be made on the fly.

   Finally, I live in a subdivision- with neighbors. Though no one has complained I am very sensitive to noise. To that the tools with induction motors are quiet and don't screech 3 blocks away. Although the unisaw still is noisy depending on the blade. I plan on upgrading to a stationary planer this year, partly for noise control. The bandsaw is very quiet.

   Oh, and I still don't have a drill press- though I have an oscillating spindle sander which goes hand in hand with the bandsaw.

   Hope I wasn't preaching or dissuading you to get started as I have had a lot of fun this past year playing with my toys.

   Joe

   
   

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   Edited 4/21/2002 12:26:19 PM ET by Joe

7. 
   BillK25 | Apr 21, 2002 07:32pm | #7

   Dan,

   A few years ago I was in a situation similar to you in setting up a shop (though minus the wonderful children). However, our neighbors have two great twin girls and the safety note from Dennis is well worth heeding.

   I've made it three years without a table saw, but it's high on my wish list. I have a small business, built furniture for our home and a number of book cases, coat lockers, toy bins and building blocks for the local school district.

   I went with a Jet bandsaw with riser block on a roller base (for a small shop with limited space I've found the roller bases indespensible), several blades, cool blocks, etc.  Very quiet to run and safety wise, I feel fine when my wife wants to do a bit of cutting
   price ~$800  (the extras add up !)

   I wanted a mid size planer, but out of my price range, so I went with the DeWalt 12 1/2 inch portable...it does not have the slow feed rate, and you have to use hand planes on boards wider than 12 inches, but this tool has worked wonderfully.  Again, there's extras such as spare blades, sharpening, dust collection covers, shop vac hoses...worth keeping in mind for the budget.
   price ~$400

   Jet 6 inch jointer and roller base...this tool (with rabbeting shelf) has been fantastic.
   price ~$600

   I went with Bosch on the router, happy with the purchase. You may want to set aside two hundred dollars for extras the first year. For me this included a variety of bits, fences, T-tracks for a homemade router table, an after market miter gage for the router table, etc.
   price, with extras ~$450

   DeWalt random orbital sander with A LOT of sanding disks.
   price $150 

   Dust and noise is a concern for me, so I purchased a Fein vacuum...the smaller hose size required me to be a bit creative in hookups, but I am pleased with this vacuum.
   price $250  (no fine sanding dust all over everything has been great)

   I am a big fan of the brace and bit, but I received a delta cordless drill as a gift and buddy, I'm sold. If you can afford something along these lines ... I pick this puppy up several times a week. I'd love to have drill press, but I've designed construction without precise drilling (instead of a bed bolt through a drilled hole, I route a groove on the inside of the rail with the router). A drill press...eventually, but so far I'm surviving.

   I've thought about a compound miter saw, but you can only cut boards so wide (great for small projects or if you have the money for one), so I use a hand saw/miter frame, more time to use but less $.

   If my math is correct, that leaves around $350 left for lumber, finishing, hardware, etc....but don't forget, that accounts for a bunch of extras for actually getting work done .. the $350.00 isn't much, but it'll get you started on that first fun project.

   Best of luck, hope this long winded letter is useful. Those extras add up, but it sure is nice having the right bit for the job. 

   Bill

   
   

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   Edited 4/22/2002 11:34:25 PM ET by Bill

1. 
   sschefer | Apr 22, 2002 03:33am | #8

   Bill, just a quick note about CMS's. I put off buying one for a long time. What a mistake that was. I have a 12" Bosch that I normally have mounted in a bench with extensions. That thing saves me so much time that it's just about become my favorite tool. Now, the table saw stay's pretty much dedicated to ripping. You are correct about narrow boards. Mine will handle 8", but there are sliders now that can do a lot more. I still have my Radial Arm Saw but it takes me forever to get it setup for that perfect cut so its not seeing much use anymore. The other nice thing about CMS's is that they are designed to be portable. As a matter of fact, I had mine out in the back yard this morning. I needed to replace the top caps of my raised planter beds. The corners are mitered but not perfect 45's because the back of the beds follow a fence line. With just a couple of measurements, I was able to setup for the cuts and was done in an hour. It took me twice as long and many trial and error cuts the previous time when I did it with a skill saw. Steve - in Northern California

1. 
   BillK25 | Apr 22, 2002 06:02am | #9

   Steve,

   Thanks for the feedback.  I came close at one time to buying a Bosch CMS this past year, but the cut length was the deciding factor against it. I'll have to do some looking into the extensions you mentioned and revisit my decision. It's good to hear that you are pleased with your saw.

   Thanks again,

   Bill