Hi everyone:
I’m a beginning wordworker who’s looking to upgrade from my entry level Craftsman table saw that has been the bane of many projects. I simply can’t get an accurate cut with it.
I have the equivalent of a one-car garage so I can’t go for something large and immobile like a cabinet saw with a 50″ fence. I found a used Delta 36-682 with a 30″ Biesemeyer fence for sale for $400 (it sells for about $750 new). The guy said he used it for only 10 hours before moving to an apartment and needing to unload it.
I don’t want to keep buying inferior quality tools but I don’t want to spend a fortune for something I might tire of down the road. I’ve been woodworking for a few years and am only getting more interested, but still I’m a long way from being a craftsman and I just want to get a tool that will grow with me but that I can afford.
Do any of you have opinions on this table saw? Buying a table saw feels like choosing a wife — it’s such a key decision with so many long term consequences.
Any help you can give me will be appreciated.
Replies
Unlike a wife, Adirhu, you can always sell the saw if you don't like it. I think the Delta contractor saw is the next best thing to a cabinet saw. With a 50" Beiz fence at $400, it sounds like a bargain. It will take up as much room as a cabinet saw but is more portable with the motor removed. Mobile bases are great if you want to move either type saw around. The 1 1/2hp Delta motor can easily be rewired for 220 with a significant improvement in power. It will be a bit weak running on 110 with 2" hardwood. A common upgrade for these saws is the addition of balanced pulleys and a link belt. It won't be quite as smooth running as a cabinet saw but it will be pretty good. Most commonly available accessories will fit the 36-692. You can run a full dado set or molding head and parts, if needed, are easy to get. Any saw needs to be tuned up to cut accurately. There are many threads in the archives about tune up procedures.
Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
i own a delta 10 inch contractors saw and if you 't afford a cabinet saw, it' the next best thing. i put mine on casters . 2 stationary and 2 swivel that lock from rolling and swiveling. i also mounted it on a wood cabinet base and enclosed the motor for truly improved dust collection. if you think you don't have enough room , my shop is only about 220 sq. feet, and i just built an oak case piece that measures 76 by 40 ". mobile units are the way to go, although , with such a small shop, hand tools are also the way to go!it is a good saw that should last for many years. if your still using a crappy little bench top saw, your work will be very slow to improve. I started with one , although i treated it like a hand ripsaw, gets the job done(with it's puny 11 & 1/2 " rip capacity ) with a lot of hand clean up. good luck with your future pursuits!!!!
Adirhu, Welcome to Knots and count me as another Delta contractor owner. I have used mine as a hobbyist for 8 years and have found no need for anything heavier (cabinet saw). The basic difference between my saw and the one you're looking at is a good used saw is probably a better deal than new. And at that price, if you want to sell it later you'll probably get all your money back.
The only thing I found that improved performance was getting a rip blade for oak that was 2" or more thick. I recently added the link belt and found a slight reduction in vibration.
Roy
adirhu,
If you are limited for space, you might want to consider getting a good bench-top saw instead of a full-size contractor/cabinet saw. Some of the newer bench-top saws have excellent designs.
I got the Ridgid TS2400 and I have been very impressed with it. The fence system and the accuracy are terrific. It has very low vibration. And it wheels around my shop so it is easy to get it out of the way. I use this saw, along with a high-quality miter gauge from Incra.
Adirhu,
I recently purchased a Craftsman 00922124000 which is the same saw as one of the Delta models. It comes with the Bies. fence, etc. and it's been great. I'm closer to the entry level type woodworker but the cuts have been accurate and easy and I've seen the quality of my projects dramatically improve. Also, the set up was pretty easy and with some minor adjustments things have been smooth sailing with it. The ease of use and the speedy set up of cuts it's also boosted the enjoyment I get. There are other posts that speak to this saw much better than I can, but given that it's the same as the Delta with all the same features and you can get some deals from Sears on it around holidays, it was a good buy.
One other thing, I bought the mobile base kit and I can move that bad-boy around my garage with ease.
Just my 2 cents.
T.
Edited 11/2/2005 11:46 am ET by tdinovo
Just my opinion, but I would shop around, and have a look at the new Hybrid cab saws. There are some good deals right now. For instance in my area you could buy a Delta Hybrid cab.saw, with 30in. rails, and 1hp. Delta Dust Collector inc. in the price for $699.00. And good dust collection in a small space is very nice to have. This could be the reason he's selling it, maybe he's trading up.
As far as space and mobility are concerned. The hybrid saw takes a smaller footprint than a contractor model, and you can put a mobile base under it for around $40.00. Sometimes they will even throw one in with your saw. There are a few other Hybrids I can get in this price range as well, and I'm in Canada. The prices should be better in the states.
Good Luck. Walker1
Strangely enough, the cabinet saw, depending on the length of the rip fence rails will take less space than contractor saws because the motor doesn't hang out the back.
In addition, cabinet saws probably retain more value than the lesser saws because the design is proven and durable, especially saws from Delta, Powermatic and General.
I don't think you can lose a dime on that saw if it's good condition. The depreciation on that machine was taken by the first owner. Grab it fast and decide if you want to keep it later....deals like that don't come along every day. It's got a great fence with a ton of capacity, solid cast iron wings, a quiet induction motor, and should last you the rest of your life.
I also have a Delta contractors saw. I used it for everything until I got my slider. I now use the Delta for rips amd dado and tenons etc. I now do panel work on the other saw. I really liked my Delta especially after I installed the Pals alignment system along with the linked belt and the pulley. One of the worst jobs of tuning a contractors saw is to try to get the blade paralell with the miter gage groove. The Pals system makes this miserable job just plain easy.It is relitively cheap too considering how much aggrivation and effort it saves. The contractors saw can be made accurate to thee decimals with a dial indicator. Your saw will be a real pleasure to use and enjoy. Good luck. Bob
could you please tell me more about this pals system? i have never heard of it, but i am always on the look for an easier way to tune my saw. any info would be greatly appreciated.i just recently had to readjust mine . it was out a bit , but it was such a pain, especially since i enclosed the motor in a cabinet. it really improves dust collection, but it reduces access a little bit. still, less dust keeps the peace. thanks again in advance for any info on the pals. g.s.
PALS are marketed by Inline Industries and are basically some simple hardware made specifically for most popular contractor saws. They help hold the rear trunnions in place, and offer minute lateral adjustments with a hex wrench. They take about 10-15 minutes to install...pretty straight forward for the most part.http://in-lineindustries.com/saw_pals.html
I've seen a number of threads on this topic in the last couple of weeks and it's a consistently recurring theme. It's usually a tossup between Delta or Powermatic followed by Jet or General or Grizzley or something like that. But there is a new comer on the market that I have mentioned and promoted quite a bit in a previous post. I have a Sawstop cabinet saw which is probably out of your price range. But they do make a contractors saw that may be worth looking into. If it's anything like their cabinet saw it is hands down the best product on the market today.
Hi Ted:
I've been intrigued by the Sawstop since I first read about it because of the safety factor. I've read a recent review in one of the magazines for the cabinet saw and it said they're coming out with a contractor's version. Is your enthusiasm because of the safety, or is there something additional that makes it special? What kind of fence does it come with?
Thanks for your advice.
Josh
I'd have to say the safety issue was the primary reason before the purchase. After the purchase I really appreciate the attention to detail and quality and I consider the safety issue as a bonus. The gas cylinder assist for raising and lowering the blade, no slop in the rack and pinions, riving knife, oversize and conveniently located switch, dust shroud around blade, excellent owners manual and outstanding customer support are just some of the reasons this saw is great. Of course as I have mentioned this applies to the cabinet saw and if the quality and design of it can be applied to their contractors saw I'd have to say it to will be an excellent saw.
I'd say that General is probably on top- I just haven't heard any negative comments about the saw, the company or the customer service in past threads. Anyone have a different experience?
Glaucon
If you don't think too good, then don't think too much...
General makes a good saw. No doubt about that. But in terms of features for the money Sawstop is a better value in my opinion. Their contractor line is made by their import division and I suppose it's comparable to Grizzley, Jet or Powermatic.
" But in terms of features for the money Sawstop is a better value in my opinion. " I'll join those acknowledging that General's manuals are weak, but I sure don't see the Sawstop as better "value" for the money at ~ 50% higher cost with a relatively short track record to boot. It has some unique features and appears to be a well built saw, but I guess the value of those features is subjective, because I see them as coming at a high premium....a premium I can understand some wanting to pay, but a premium nonetheless. Oh nevermind....we could really get lost in another SS discussion! ;-)
I'd say that General is probably on top- I just haven't heard any negative comments about the saw, the company or the customer service in past threads. Anyone have a different experience?
I can make complaint... those damn manuals! They really are bad. But that's it.
I've had the General 220 for about 4 months now. It's a great saw. I have it with the Biesmayer fence, and 30" rails. For my small shop it's perfect. Very small footprint. Recently I was working with some 8/4 hard maple. Nice smooth cuts. I have no regrets buying this saw or any of my General Equipment.
I e-mailed General just after I purchased the saw to ask some questions about assembly. I got an e-mail back within two hours from the area's General rep. He apologized for the manuals, then offered to walk me through it on the phone in the evening to sort out the problems.
It's one sweet machine.
You know, you're right... the manuals are the one thing that they seem to get paddled for... too bad, from what I've heard, if they rewrote the manuals, they'd get a near perfect review.
I'm in the market for a cabinet saw. The shop where I used to work had ~30 year old Unisaws- and they were sweet. I think the older Powermatic 66s also were a good saw. The manufacturing, sourcing and QC on both Delta and Powermatic have been more questionable lately, and there have been complaints. I think you can still get a good saw from either, but you might also get a lemon.
General has been very stable in terms of production, QC, etc- I think its more of a sure thing. Distributors for General in my area are a bit sparse, but there is a show in mid December that they will exhibit at, so I will check them out. If they look good, then perhaps Santa will bring me one...Glaucon
If you don't think too good, then don't think too much...
Delta can't brag about their manuals either. You could have a brain explosion trying to assemble it... my Unisaw came with FOUR different manuals you have to consult during assembly (saw, fence, base, extension), not including the three parts lists. A number of steps are pretty hard to understand, as well.
I live up here in 'General Country' so it's everywhere. The only problem is there isn't too much else.
For the longest time I thought all machines were green! I took a woodworking night class at a high school, every machine except the 14" Delta Bandsaw was a General. The old tablesaws were great. It was nice to have a 12" Jointer as well...
It's going to be a good month. There is a wood show/ tool sale this weekend, so al the machinery will be on sale. Then at the end of the month a new store is having their grand opening wit a big sale. I hope to pick up a drill press and a 14" bandsaw... Anyway, getting a little off topic...
To sum it up I really recomend the General 220 Hybrid.
Ted, I have a couple of questions for you. Is the blade more to the center of the table? I have a Unisaw and it seems that since the blade is toward the rear of the table it is very dangerous. It would make more sense to me to move the blade forward so you do not have to worry about reaching over a spinning blade to retrieve the piece you just cut. The cut piece usually wants to fall off the back since table space is limited. Also, it looks like the saw uses just two belts, one from the motor to an idler and one from the idler to the arbor. Is this true and are the belts cogged or ribbed?
Life is what happens to you when you're making other plans .
I don't know if the blade is less far forward than the Unisaw. But the table is definetly larger in both directions. You're correct about the belts. One from the motor to an idler arm and then one belt from the idler arm to the arbor. The belts aren't cogged and I don't see any reason they should be since power transmission hasn't been an issue and I can cut through 8/4" maple without any hesitation.
ted; The drive system on your Sawstop is similar to the one General designed for the GI 50 220 Hybrid cab. saw. I have it, and I like it. It delivers the power very efficiently, and smoothly to the blade.
Cheers. Walker1
Edited 11/3/2005 6:56 pm by Walker1
It would make more sense to me to move the blade forward so you do not have to worry about reaching over a spinning blade to retrieve the piece you just cut. The cut piece usually wants to fall off the back since table space is limited
STOP! Don't do it. Never. Reaching across a spinning blade is a VERY DANGEROUS thing to do, whether the blade is near or far. If you don't want offcuts on the floor add an outfeed table. Or stop the blade so you can pick up the offcut. But never, never reach across a spinning blade to grab a piece of wood. (And this is true on a Sawstop saw as well, because the reaching can trigger a kickback--though the riving knife should help.)
Besides, you need space before the blade on the table in order to set up cross cuts.
I actually do not reach over the spinning blade to retrieve the offcuts. It is the medium size pieces that I cut that are the problem. They have a tendency to want to fall to the floor if I do not hold them until the blade stops. It would be nice to have a extra couple of inches behind the blade. If I keep the saw I have I should add an outfeed table. Thanks for your advice.
Life is what happens to you when you're making other plans .
Edited 11/4/2005 8:26 am ET by JerryPacMan
Glad you weren't actually at risk.
I think you are right about wanting a little more table behind the blade, the outfeed table is a good idea. The SawStop cab. saw does have a three inch deeper table (30" instead of 27" on the Unisaw) However, if you notice so many threads asking about table saws mention that space is tight. An outfeed table that can fold down, or be rolled away could be a good thing for that situation.
I strongly agree!!! Don't ever reach across the blade. I tried it....once, and my left index finger tip was turned into hamburger. Outfeed table a much better idea.
Reaching across a spinning blade? Doesn't anyone here use a blade guard?????RogerI'd rather be making cabinets and friends....
I don't, not usually. I would be more inclined if I were making dozens of repetitive cuts that might induce the mind to wander--the very last thing you want to happen. I do have a Brett guard if I should want to use it, but it prevents using my Beisemeyer splitter.
It limits ability to use a push shoe where in needs to be set, right next to the blade so it doesn't torque the wood away from the fence.
It complicates set-up with lack of visibility.
I do religiously use a splitter. Personally I'm more concerned about avoiding kickback. I also use finger boards on the infeed side of the blade a lot.
I guess you could put me down as the lone Jet contractor saw owner - I got the Xacta fence, which is excellent, and the motor is pretty powerful. Dust collection is the only reason why I would move up to a cabinet saw, but depends on how far you want to go.
And yes, you can change our your saw easier than your wife!
Roger
I'd rather be making cabinets and friends....
My Jet contractor saw does a remarkably fine job for me. It came with a 30" fence which I found to be too small. I recently put a 50" Mule fence on it. I use the right side of the saw as my router table and bought a router fence which attaches to the Mule fence.Dick DurbinTallahasseehttp://home.comcast.net/~olebiker/
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