Replies

1. 
   BrianF | Dec 31, 2005 02:39am | #1

   I'll take a guess. I would call it yellow birch. I really has some nice spalting in it. It's absoulutely not spruce. That much I do know for sure!

1. 
   PhillipB | Dec 31, 2005 03:27am | #2

   Brian,Thanks for the info. How is this different from Canoe Birch? I saw a few birch trees while we were in Missouri and they were very white. Is Yellow Birch common in your area of Wisconsin?Thanks for the info.
   Phillip

1. 
   BrianF | Dec 31, 2005 05:25am | #3

   I think what you are refering to as Canoe Birch, we call paper birch. I some areas up here the yellow is more prevelant. The bark is less "flaky" and kind of golden in color. It seems to be more dense as well, I use it for firewood quite a bit.

2. 
   highfigh | Dec 31, 2005 05:31am | #4

   If you already have the logs, cut a section off of one end so you can quarter saw one piece, plane saw another and rift saw another. Also, plane or sand it smooth, then post the photos. It may be easier to identify that way. If you have access to any other birch lumber, smell it and compare. The odor of birch and most other woods will be unique to that specie. From the bark, it does look like birch in some photos. "I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."

   Edited 12/30/2005 9:33 pm by highfigh

1. 
   bugeye | Dec 31, 2005 05:43am | #5

   If its yellow birch, it will smell stronly of wintergreen, as long as its not too dry. Being spalted(rotten!) may have an effect on the smell, but I can't speak from experience. I think that it's water birch.

2. 
   bigfootnampa | Dec 31, 2005 06:39am | #6

   It is a native birch that is commonly called river birch.  I know of no efforts anywhere to lumber it or market the wood.  It does commonly spalt beautifully.  I cut one in my front yard (here in Saint Louis) a few years ago and saved a few nice chunks in garbage bags.  They produced the most spectacular spalting that I have ever seen.  I made some really striking bowls from some of the best pieces.  It took just about forever and 30 to 50 coats to get a nice finish on them (because of the spongy porous nature of portions of the wood).  It turns and carves nicely, though the most strikingly spalted pieces are also at the very edge of being too deteriorated to work and the dust is very hazardous as well as quite a nuisance.  My advice is to dig into it and work it into beautiful items right away.  It is precious rare and perishable.  Give some away if you can't work it all up.  It will make your woodworking friends very happy and keep your conscience clear ('twould be sinful to hoard and waste such beauty).

1. 
   PhillipB | Dec 31, 2005 07:42am | #7

   bigfootnampa,Thanks for the comments. These pieces came from Lee's Summit, MO which is not too far from you. Too bad that the folks who let me have these pieces did not know what kind of wood it was. Much of what is there is just going to waste. After I chain-sawed the birch in half I could not believe my eyes. The spalting is truly beautiful. My pieces are not spongy at all. I have no idea how long this wood has been laying out in the open but it is not freshly cut. And there is oak and elm in abundance. One piece of elm would take a fork lift to move. I use a lot of elm but that piece would have to go to a saw mill before it could be handled. Most of the other pieces have been cut too short for furniture of any sort.If you're interested, I can tell you where it is and I'm sure they would be happy to let you have it.Phillip

1. 
   bugeye | Dec 31, 2005 02:30pm | #9

   well, I went to the books to check up on this a found that it's most likely river birch, not water birch as I'd said before. Seems that others got to it before I did though. My sources say that historically, river birch has been the choice timber for artificial limbs, because of its light weight and workability. Hope you won't need it for this. If you decide to go for the elm, get it sawn and stickered soon! It rots in the log as quickly as anything I've ever seen. Have fun with your windfall.

1. 
   PhillipB | Dec 31, 2005 07:24pm | #13

   bugeye,River Birch! I have a Time-Life tree book which is more for someone who wants to plant trees rather than identify them, so what is the name of your book? A book such as yours would be a great asset.As to the elm, I was able to harvest an elm that was cut down at a Chevron refinery where I used to work in El Paso, TX. That was about 10 years ago and I still have quite a bit of it and have worked it extensively. Some of it was spalted, some of it was rotten, but most of it was workable. I still have two 8-foot quarter-logs which I plan on taking to a saw mill and have them cut so I can make a table for our dining room. Lots of folks say 'Elm! You use elm?' but the truth is that elm is a great wood to work with. It is light, but definitely tough and durable.The hugh log that I saw where I gathered the River Birch would make more than a few coffee tables but unless you had a commission for a large table in your pocked, it may not be worth the effort. It's a shame to see all this great wood go to waste. So, looks like I will be passing on this one. If a few of us on this thread have an interest in this piece, perhaps we could all get together and come up with a plan. Maybe not.regards,
   Phillip

   Edited 12/31/2005 11:26 am by PhillipB

2. 
   bigfootnampa | Jan 01, 2006 11:05am | #20

   Thanks for the offer Philip.  I wish I had the time to take advantage but the first quarter of 2006 is already filled with customers projects... at this rate I'll be scheduling stuff for December by April.  I've gotta keep myself going straight forward... no side forays for fun projects. (:-(

1. 
   Ron01960 | Jan 01, 2006 05:24pm | #21

   Acer griseum (paper bark maple)native to Japan, China and Korea. Almost NO chance of this growing wild, as seeds are usually only 2-3% viable and 2-5 years germination. Slow growing tree!Its caviare for squirrels. My experience would place it in the birch family. I think you will need flower and leaf to determine the specifics unless its in a native stand of trees.Ron

3. 
   JeffHeath | Dec 31, 2005 09:24am | #8

   Phillip

   I've got a couple of those trees in my yard.  They're River Birch.  I don't know if that's the same family as yellow birch, but your pictures are identical to what I have.

   Jeff

1. 
   PhillipB | Dec 31, 2005 07:04pm | #12

   Jeff,Thanks for your input. Have you ever worked this wood? All the pieces that I have are heavy and dense - not as heavy as oak - but they are definitely not soft and porous like rotted wood. Because of this I have high hopes for these pieces.Regards,
   Phillip

1. 
   JeffHeath | Dec 31, 2005 11:51pm | #17

   I have not, but it wouldn't stop me from giving it a try.  Just in case nobody mentioned it, wear a respirator when working with spalted wood for obvious reasons.

   Jeff

4. 
   Glaucon | Dec 31, 2005 05:05pm | #10

   I agree that it is probably river birch- there are three common trees that have that type of bark (at least that I know of): shagbark hickory, river birch and paperbark maple. Your photo looks like river birch.

   Glaucon

   If you don't think too good, then don't think too much...

1. 
   highfigh | Dec 31, 2005 06:23pm | #11

   I think the hickory and maple would be noticeably harder and denser that the birch, as well as the bark strips being longer and thicker. Is the paperbark maple the same as silver maple? The bark is similar to SB hickory. Still longer and thicker than birch, though. Also, the cambium payer on birch is fairly thin. On hickory and maple, it's definitely thicker.
   "I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."

1. 
   Glaucon | Dec 31, 2005 08:23pm | #15

   The SB Hickory has long, thin, plate-like bark... it's the kind of tree Chas Addams would put around a cemetary for a Halloween cover for the New Yorker,  The River Birch has thin, paper-like "rolls" that form its bark- usually with a hint of pale-orange pink.  The maple is closer to the birch than to the hickory.

   I have a River Birch in my front yard, but I haven't used wood from such atree in the past, and I don't know if it would be very different from other birch...Glaucon

   If you don't think too good, then don't think too much...

1. 
   highfigh | Dec 31, 2005 09:21pm | #16

   I've seen the SB hickory and the River Birch, I went with Whitespire Birch in my front yard and looked at quite a few species at the time. I haven't seen a maple with paperbark in the name, though. I also have a Silver Maple in my yard, which is the reason I asked if it was this type.
   "I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."

1. 
   Glaucon | Jan 01, 2006 12:09am | #18

   Paperbark maple:

   View ImageGlaucon

   If you don't think too good, then don't think too much...

2. 
   highfigh | Jan 01, 2006 02:09am | #19

   Where is this a native species? If it's southern, that would explain it, 'cause I'm in the frozen tundra. Actually, not too frozen at the moment, so I'm OK with it.
   "I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."

3. 
   Glaucon | Jan 01, 2006 11:45pm | #22

   It has become popular in the mid-Atlantic and So. New England as well as the UK and has populated many an arboretum.  It tolerates zone 4 and below, is fairly slow growing and, like most maples, is fairly pest and trouble free.Glaucon

   If you don't think too good, then don't think too much...

4. 
   WillGeorge | Jan 03, 2006 09:08pm | #27

   Paperbark maple:I NEVER though of that! Thanks for the PIC!

5. 
   Glaucon | Jan 03, 2006 10:17pm | #29

    Poems are made by fools like me, But only God can make a tree...

   Happy New Year WG,

    Glaucon

   If you don't think too good, then don't think too much...

2. 
   PhillipB | Dec 31, 2005 07:33pm | #14

   Glaucon,Thanks for the input. Nice to hear from you. We've chatted in the past on another subject. Politics as I recallI'm beginning to learn that ID-ing some of these trees is not so easy if you've recently moved from the Southwest as we have. At any rate, Happy Holidays! to you.Phillip

5. 
   tangomike | Jan 02, 2006 10:20am | #23

   I miss Jon Arno.

1. 
   BrianF | Jan 02, 2006 06:05pm | #24

   Me too!!

2. 
   PhillipB | Jan 02, 2006 07:09pm | #25

   Amen, Tango!I once started a thread wondering why wood worker's did not use hickory for work bench tops. John zoomed in on that like a hawk after a rabbit. Swoop, bang! There will never be another John Arno. Too bad. So now we will have to find lots of tree books to take his place. Don't know that I have enough book-shelf space though must less time to digest them all.Happy Holidays to you,
   Phillip

1. 
   WillGeorge | Jan 03, 2006 09:12pm | #28

   hickory for work bench tops..I have one.. Brother has it now.. Top is Hickory all the rest is ASH..As far as I know never any problems with it.. Stays FLAT but a 'bit' hard to finish if needed...

6. 
   WillGeorge | Jan 03, 2006 09:07pm | #26

   birch of some type.. Looks nice!

7. 
   Maplewood | Jan 04, 2006 04:00am | #30

   As you guys have already figured out, it's a birch. In adition to the peeling, papery bark, if you look on the 008.jpg photo you'll see lines of little holes in the bark, called lenticels. These allow the tree to pass air and water vapors through the slick, impervious bark when it's young and smooth. Oaks, hickories, maples and elms don't have these. Of the major native birches in the eastern US, the one with a common distribution in MO is... you guessed it, River Birch. The others generally grow further to the north and east. River birch has a scaly bark when mature, just like your photos.

   As for the big elm, have you considered an Alaska mill? It's an attachment to a chain saw that allows you to cut boards or slabs off of big logs. That way you can slice them small enough to get into your pickup and get them home, where you can air dry them and mill them finer using your bandsaw, jointer, and planer. I've used mine to bring home several hundred feet of maple, cherry, and locust. They're a lot of work, and they aren't cheap, but once you've made the investment a lot of good wood can be had for free. And I hate seeing it go to waste otherwise!

    

1. 
   WillGeorge | Jan 05, 2006 08:14pm | #31

   DANG! All that about a Birch from a MapleWood! LOL...I love this post.. Just me.. But I'm strange..

2. 
   PhillipB | Jan 07, 2006 04:48pm | #32

   Maplewood,Thanks for your comments. I find it amazing how little I know about wood and trees in general even after working wood as a Krenovian amateur for over 30 years. In truth I've never had the good fortune to stumble across the treasure that I did while in Missouri. From previous visits to my wife's mother, I knew the elm and oak were there, but definitely not this River Birch. Your Alaskan mill is a great idea save for one small detail: storage space. If you read though this thread you will know that I have been working elm for several years. And, strangely enough, just a few days ago I 'rearranged' some of the larger pieces in my garage to make a little room for what I brought from MO. The boss said 'one more log and it'll be Meals-On-Wheels for me for the foreseeable future'. Where we live space is at a premium.I do, however, completely agree that this is going to be a terrible waste of what I consider a wonderful wood. I could see several elm crotch coffee tables in that massive log. I've attached a photo of a walnut crotch coffee table I made a few years ago.Happy Holidays to you,
   Phillip