Replies

1. 
   johnhardy | Feb 15, 2003 12:24am | #1

   Depends on what you're trying to do.

   I bought the Incra TS fence for my Jet cabinet saw and love the repeatability. It's extremely accurate, is easy to adjust (parallel or slightly toed out vs. the blade, depending on your preference), and has hold downs on both the front and back, so it's extremely stable.

   John

2. 
   dirtstirrer | Feb 15, 2003 03:24am | #2

   Tom,

       I use and love a Biesmeyer fence on my Delta.  It came with the saw, but you can retrofit them to just about anything.  Their simple and very tough.  The INCRA sounds like a good idea too but I've never tried it.  Amazon.com  is a good place to to look at tool reviews.  I think Delta owns Biesmeyer, so a kit to attach to your Rockwell shouldn't be a problem.  I like the solidity and the repeatable accuracy of mine.  They are also easy to adjust, should you ever need to. 

                     Steve

1. 
   johnhardy | Feb 15, 2003 04:04am | #5

   There's repeatable, and there's repeatable.

   The Incra fence is repeatable to the point that you can cut two different boards (cut one board, move the fence to cut another board, move it back to match the first) then put then on edge and you cannot tell any difference in height with your finger. You can also cut an 8 inch wide board, then cut a 3 inch wide board, and finally a 5 inch wide board, and if you put the 3 and 5 inch boards together, on edge, and compare themto the 8 inch board, you can't tell the difference with your finger. IMO, the Incra is more repeatable than the other fences mentioned in the post so far.

   One of the things I make is high end chess boards, and it's impotant to me to be able to cut my boards so that I end up with squares that are exactly square, to a few thousandths. My cuts aren't done anywhere near the same time, so this level of repeatability is extremely important to me. Just my 2 cents worth on that topic.

   And, no, I don't have any interest in the folksthat make the Incra fence.

   John

1. 
   MatthewSchenker | Feb 15, 2003 04:51am | #6

   John,

   Interesting post.

   I make something very similar to your chessboards -- I call them "quilted cutting boards." My cutting boards have a pattern similar to a chessboard, using a combination of maple and cherry.

   I'd be very interested to hear your techniques for cutting and combining woods.

1. 
   johnhardy | Feb 16, 2003 10:13pm | #10

   Have you seen pictures of my chess boards? You can see them at http://www.legendproduct.com.

   The board portion is really very simple. I cut four walnut and four maple boards that are about 2.5 feet long into strips that are exactly as wide as I want the squares. I than alternate these boards and glue them up ... the result is pretty much like a flag with horizontal stripes.

   I then use a crosscut sled to cut the "flag" into strips that are about 1/8th of an inch wider than the original boards. I then take these strips and shave a slight portion off of one side, and, after flipping them around, cut the other side to the exact same dimension as the original boards.

   Take the eight strips you need and which look the best and glue them up into the chessboard. The dimensions are exact and the corners will line up perfectly.

   I use spline joints for all joints, both for alignment and for strength.

   My high end board has a strip of 1/8th inch wide cherry in between the walnut and curly maple, but that just adds a small step to the process.

   After the board itself is glued up, I cut the outside walnut border and glue it in place, also using spline joints.

   John

   Edited 2/17/2003 12:59:08 PM ET by johnhardy

1. 
   dirtstirrer | Feb 17, 2003 04:41am | #11

   Hey John,  you might want to fix your link.  It won't work spelled like that.

2. 
   MatthewSchenker | Feb 18, 2003 10:12pm | #16

   John,

   Thanks for the information, and for the link to your site. Absolutely love your work -- stunning quality. And it's nice to see someone who does such nice work he's not afraid to offer a super close-up view!

   The cutting boards I am making use a "chessboard" pattern, alternating maple and cherry. I've been thinking of adding an ebony border, so seeing your boards really gives me some food for thought.

   A couple of questions:

   1. What table saw do you use?

   2. After you cut the "flag" into strips, do you then run the boards through a jointer, or do you find that they are cut nicely enough just using the table saw?

   3. When you talk about splines, do you mean biscuits or hardwood splines? I know a lot of people who make 5'- to 7'-long tables glue up the boards without using any splines or biscuits. I'm curious to hear your reasoning behind using splines.

   * * * * * * * *

   My cutting boards are 1 1/8" thick. I glue them up with waterproof glue and finish them with walnut oil. I don't use splines. Some of my boards are going on four years old and so far I have heard no complaints. However, I'm planning to sell a bunch of my cutting boards to a local store, so if there is some way to improve the quality I'd love to hear it.

   Do you think I should start using splines in my cutting boards?

   Thanks again for the great advice.

3. 
   johnhardy | Feb 19, 2003 02:30am | #19

   I cut the "flag" into strips with a crosscut sled, making the strips about an eighth of an inch wider than the final strip will be. I then take about 1/16th off on the saw, and then take the final portion off of the other side, the exact amount determined by the repeatability of the Incra fence.

   I do not use the jointer at all in this process. In fact, I don't own a jointer. I have a Forrest WWII blade and use direct glue joints from the saw. No problems whatsoever.

   I have a Jet cabinet saw (not a contractor's saw).

   I use hardwood splines for alignment purposes and for strength. To be fair, the splines that I use in the "flag" glueup are running the same was as the individual strips, so the strength is not as much as if I had the splines with the grain running the other way. But I've never had one come apart.

   If I were to make cutting boards, which are going to see more water and such, I would run all of the grain the same direction. If there were to be an outside border (walnut, for example), this border would have end grain on the two opposing ends where the interior had end grain. This would mean much less stress on the board in terms of expansion/contraction. While my chessboards haven't come apart, that doesn't mean there is no stress. Washing a cutting board changes the humidity in the board much more dramatically than a mere chessboard.

   If you look at http://www.legendproduct.com there are board there from a guy named, I think, Becker, and he has his walnut border running the same direction, I'm sure for the same purposes I suggest above. If you do this there is no need for a mitered corner. Becker doesn't miter his corners and the boards are spectacular.

   If you run the grain all one direction, I don't see the need for splines. I'll continue to use them in my chess boards, however, because I've had good luck and my gut tells me they help with the stresses.

   John

2. 
   dirtstirrer | Feb 15, 2003 06:49am | #7

   John,

       Interesting post.  I always try to rip the same width boards at once so I don't have to worry about the precise (like 64th's) match if I move the fence.  If I do move the fence, it is fairly easy to get within a 128th or so, but you can usually feel a difference with your finger.  I guess my projects are usually a lot different then yours.  Mine are bigger pieces of furniture, were it is fairly easy to rip the same widths without moving the fence.  I don't really crosscut on the TS.  My sliding mitre does that job.  I looked at your boards the other day on http://www.legendproducts.com and would like to offer my compliments.  I won't argue with your expertise for sure, as you make my work look very wanting.  I wonder though, if some projects won't require that level of precision?  I think there is a price difference between Incra and Biesmeyer that is not insignificant.  Probably boils down to how you build your products and what you want to spend.  Have you ever tried the router table fence by Incra?  Sure looks like a good product too.

                          Steve

1. 
   johnhardy | Feb 18, 2003 07:41pm | #12

   I've heard nothing but good things about the Biesmeyer fence. I chose the Incra fence because of the repeatable precision. If you don't need that you can't go wrong with the Bies.

   John

3. 
   RoyinMD | Feb 15, 2003 06:50am | #8

   John,

   I've done a few chess boards. Try cutting 8 strips 4 each of your wood choice. Glue them together and the next day rip er crosscut to the same dimension and flip end to end alternate strips and glue up again. As you said the second cutting is critical and triming the edges must be less than minor to not change the square size. Works great, love chess boards. Going to do a new one soon, I bought a high end set of large chess pieces a few years ago. What woods do you use. I was not totally happy with walnut and teak for the first few.

   To keep the topic on track. A friend put an Excaliper (sp?) on his Craftsman and loves it. I'll have to check the make of mine, don't remember right now, not a famous brand. But the Craftsman had had had to go.

   Enjoy, Roy

1. 
   johnhardy | Feb 18, 2003 07:44pm | #13

   See an earlier post in this thread which describes how I cut my boards. It's pretty much as you describe but the second cutting is done a little more precisely than you describe.

   I use walnut and curly maple (or quarter sawn maple, depends on the look I want), with cherry accents. Teak and walnut are too close in color to use in the same board, IMO.

   John

1. 
   RoyinMD | Feb 18, 2003 09:44pm | #14

   I learned my lesson with the teak. It looked great until several coats of polly.

   I saw your procedure a couple of days ago, I gotta try that next time, probably in a couple of months. I visited your site, fantastic boards John. I was planning the wide walnut mitered boarder like you did.

   Enjoy, Roy

2. 
   johnhardy | Feb 18, 2003 10:07pm | #15

   I've started using splines in my outside border as well, including a spline in the mitered corners. If you use walnut, they're barely noticeable. If you use a contrasting wood (maple, ebony, for example), the effect is striking and makes the piece very interesting.

   John

3. 
   mrles | Feb 15, 2003 03:24am | #3

   Tom

   I have a Delta Unifence and haven't had to adjust it since I bought it over two years ago. I picked it because it was the highest rated at the time I believe in FWW.

   God Bless

   les 

4. 
   billyg83440 | Feb 15, 2003 03:53am | #4

   I bought a fence from exaktortools.com that I've been very happy with. It's a new product though. It's not on the web page yet, you'll have to contact them to get info.

   Makes a world of difference to have a fence that stays parallel to the blade.

5. 
   ownersrep | Feb 16, 2003 03:39am | #9

   Tom,

   I bought the Incra to make up for the poor fence on the rigid cs that I had at the time.  The fence was the best part of the saw (and almost the most expensive).  I sold the rigid but kept the fence.

   I bought a new unisaw w/ a biesemieyer and haven't seen any reason to take it off and put it on the Incra.  The Incra is probably more repeatable but the Biesiemyer is a great fence.  The Incra is now on my router table.

   Incra markets to the people with contractor saws and are very good at what they do.

   My 2 cents,

   Jim

6. 
   Andrew | Feb 19, 2003 12:58am | #17

   I really like my beisemeyer, it's rock solid and very simple so there isn't much that can go wrong with it. I have an incra miter gauge and I love it, and assuming that their fence is of the same quality it would be a great product. I was about to buy one, however the one problem I found with it is that you need a lot of room to the right of the saw as the aluminum extrusion that is attached perpendicular to the fence extends far beyond the saw when the fence is set up for a wide rip. Depending on how your shop is set up this could get in the way.

   There are other ways to set your fence very accurately, I use my digital calipers to set the fence, but my calipers only go up to 8". this is accurate to within a few thou.

1. 
   johnhardy | Feb 19, 2003 02:22am | #18

   I've got a table extension for my Jet cabinet saw, so the Incra fence doesn't have that exact problem for me. But you're right, this is a consideration.

   I don't think there's any way another fence can be set as accurate, in terms of repeatability, even using calipers. I get repeatable cuts with a simple resetting of the fence ... no calipers, just about 5 seconds to reset the fence to an exact rip width. For me, that's exactly what I needed and IMO it can't be beat.

   But for most woodworking you could take a cutoff of a prior piece, stick it between the fence and the blade, (saw unplugged), spin the blade by hand until the teeth just barely touch the piece of wood, tighten down the fence, and you have a repeatable cut. But you couldn't as easily use such a technique to cut two boards whose combined width needed to be exactly as wide as another, wider, board.

   Bottom line --- the Incra fence isn't for everybody, but it is a great fence if you need the repeatable accuracy it gives you.

   John