Replies

1. 
   oldusty | Jan 19, 2010 09:39am | #1

   Morning Derek ,

   The wood seems to need to acclimate to the new surrounds . I know you said the air inside is cooler but is it really more moist ? The temperature alone without added humidity will cause little movement .My guess the wood you used was Air dried not KD not sure but air dried wood in general will have a tad more seasonal movement ,have you checked the MC of your materials ?

   Derek , your skills are enormous and greatly admired I really enjoy the tooling you have made but ,,,,,

   Designing case work with wood movement in mind and preparing for the future fact that wood will move somewhat is a challenge we all must learn to deal with to avoid the pitfalls .

   The style of construction and butt hinge make this aplication very unforgiving as you know .Our job is to design with properties known to allow for this seasonal movement .

   As far as the knobs the picture gives the impression that they are unevenly mounted to the doors , prolly the angle .

   regards dusty ,boxmaker

2. 
   RalphBarker | Jan 19, 2010 10:52am | #2

   I like the idea of replicating the diamond shape in handles of the same material as the inlay.

   Once everything settles, you might consider planing the door edges at a slight angle, so the back edge has a bit more clearance.

1. 
   derekcohen | Jan 19, 2010 11:00am | #3

   Good ideas Ralph. Thanks.

   Regards from Perth

   Derek

1. 
   davcefai | Jan 19, 2010 12:42pm | #4

   Derek,

   The knobs gave me a feeling of deja-vu: grandma's bedroom. I like them.

   If you don't have access to a hygrometer you can mimic one by reading the temperature in the room, then putting a wet piece of muslim over the thermometer bulb and directing a fan at it until the temperature stabilises.

   This will give you the wet and dry bulb temperatures.

3. 
   Lataxe | Jan 19, 2010 01:04pm | #5

   Derek,

   Pulls and knobs are a matter of taste, to a large degree. However, some shapes and textures do clash. I don't think the curvy, organic shapes of those you show go at all well with the rest of the piece, especially (as you note) with those diamonds there.

   Have you considered a knob catalogue (!) for inspiration? Try Lee Valley hardware webpages, for example. Here is a page you might consider as offering inspiration.

   http://www.leevalley.com/hardware/page.aspx?c=2&p=50469&cat=3,46742,44005&ap=1

   And some I would use meself, if it were mine own cabinet:

   http://www.leevalley.com/hardware/page.aspx?c=2&p=45236&cat=3,46742,46561&ap=7

   You don't have to buy the metal knobs, simply use the various shapes as inspiration to make your own in wood.

   ****

   As to wood movement: what Dusty said. You need a door-meet that can overlap a bit. Here is a good FWW article on the matter:

   https://www.finewoodworking.com/SkillsAndTechniques/SkillsAndTechniquesPDF.aspx?id=2650

   Lataxe

4. 
   nboucher | Jan 19, 2010 01:38pm | #6

   Derek, I agree with Lataxe that handle and pull choices are highly subjective and have a lot to do individual opinions about style and taste.

   My own view is that handles and pulls are often opportunities to introduce new design accents that don't clash with design of the overall piece. For a boxy piece with a lot of angles, for example, handles and pulls can introduce curves to soften the overall look.

   That's why I think you're on the right track with using round pulls here. Diamond variations would be overkill, in my opinion. The diamond inlays you already have are strong enough not to need the support. But I do agree that these particular pulls are a bit too overworked and clash with the simplicity of your design: the grandma's furniture comment is apt, I think. I'd go for sleeker and simpler round or curved pulls,which would introduce the softening effect of curves without adding the distraction of anything ornate.

   Best,

   Norman

5. 
   art_brazee | Jan 19, 2010 01:55pm | #7

   A couple of random thoughts first. To my eye you've got a couple to design elements - the diamond shape and the contrasting mortise dowels. Generally, you want the eye to land on one thing - in this case the diamond shape is obviously very strong. If you "compete" with that shape you'll create a design problem. Effectively, the diamond shape cries out not to be mirrored, mimicked, copied, or enhanced. It's bold on its own. Because you don't want to create competition it would be best for the pulls to be simple. I don't think these pulls do anything for the piece and look a bit awkward - your hesitancy is well founded. Some general ideas, I would avoid the dark color of the inlays - it's a somewhat wide piece and would benefit from something linear (vertically - something quite long might work very good) - simple is better - you have something round in the dowels ( it might be repeatable), make it by hand and make it unique as it's a big design element. I could be all wrong, but perhaps these ideas might set you off in some beneficial direction.

1. 
   art_brazee | Jan 19, 2010 02:03pm | #8

   By the way - I have recently been in a similar handle quandary and my thought are posted here http://abrazee.blogspot.com/2009/10/tale-of-two-cabinets.html

1. 
   DonStephan | Jan 19, 2010 08:54pm | #9

   DC:
   I'm impressed by the
   DC:

   I'm impressed by the amount of movement that has occurred. Assuming expansion of the frame styles also contributed, there are still only 6 relatively narrow pieces that in total expanded did you say 1/16"? What's the total width of the 6 strips, and the change in relative humidity that must have occurred? This is a great real world lesson, and the wood may still be responding to the changed relative humidity, since it's only been inside a week. Thanks for sharing.

6. 
   BruceS | Jan 19, 2010 10:55pm | #10

   Acclimating lumber to its new home ;-) My dining room flooring has been acclimating in there for two years now :-(

   Better get'er down now that it's dry in the winter house.

7. 
   James R. | Jan 20, 2010 02:02am | #11

   derek:

   I agree with the longer, thinner concept for the pulls. Check these out just for a look. I used them on my entertainment center.

   http://www.myknobs.com/atl281owss.html

   Again just an idea.

   Good luck with your handles.

   Jim

8. 
   gofigure57 | Jan 20, 2010 07:11am | #12

   I think those pulls look fine. What it needs is a top, the doors stopping rite at the top make it hard for the eye to frame in the doors. I went back to your original post "beaten by time" to see if it had a top and you mentioned it. Maybe a slab top with a small cove type crown detail would tie in the angles of the diamonds. Nice job so far.

1. 
   derekcohen | Jan 20, 2010 09:45am | #13

   The top is under construction - in Jarrah. It is to act as a dresser. I am also constructing a matching (wall hung) mirror with a Jarrah frame for above the armoire. Finally, there will be two matching bedside tables in Tasmanian Oak with a Jarrah top.

   To get a better perspective of the armoire, here is a picture alongside a door jamb. You will see that it not a high piece - 51" without the top - just high enough for hanging space and a drawer. As mentioned before, it is designed for a small guest room.

   View Image

   Regards from Perth

   Derek

9. 
   joinerswork | Jan 20, 2010 09:47am | #14

   Derek,

   There are two commonly, well, universally, used solutions to your door problem. One is to make one of the meeting stiles 1/4- 5/16" wider than the other, and work a rabbet on the backside of the wide stile and on the front side of the narrow one. A simple bead and quirk on the front edge of the wide stile gives it the appearance of an equal width as all the others,, the quirk on the stuck side of the bead matches the gap on its meeting side, making for a nice symmetrical, finished appearance.

   Too late for that in your case, as the doors are already built. You could simply tack the bead-and-quirk onto the edge of one, and rabbet its mate to fit, but the center of the applied bead would be off-center, and might be noticed by a sharp eyed viewer, like that dusty fellow.

   The second solution, is to apply a molding to cover the crack where the doors meet. Traditionally this is an astragal, or in larger pieces a double-cove and center bead. Simply nailing it on with small sprigs may be an option with a molding that is fairly broad. With a dainty molding, I like to work a shallow rabbet in the edge of the door, and make the molding with a right angled "leg" on one of its edges that fits into the rabbet, where it can be glued and nailed, out of sight. (Think of a length of angle-iron, molded on the face of one of the angles.) The bitter ends of the molding ought to be finished with a return, easily cut by hand.

   With either of these methods, a generous gap may be left between the meeting stiles without its showing.

   That British predeliction for piston-tight doors and drawers works fine in areas like old Blighty where, I hear, it rains all the time, keeping humidity relatively constant, and high. It has its drawbacks, though, as you have discovered, if there are swings in moisture, and you build when/where it is low.

   Horton Brasses has some Victorian style brass pulls that have diamond motifs in their backplates.

   http://www.horton-brasses.com/store/handlespulls/drawerpulls/victoriandrawer/angular

   Something like that might give inspiration for your door and drawer pulls.

   Ray

1. 
   derekcohen | Jan 20, 2010 12:59pm | #15

   Hi Ray

   You wrote, There are two commonly, well, universally, used solutions to your door problem. One is to make one of the meeting stiles 1/4- 5/16" wider than the other, and work a rabbet on the backside of the wide stile and on the front side of the narrow one. A simple bead and quirk on the front edge of the wide stile gives it the appearance of an equal width as all the others,, the quirk on the stuck side of the bead matches the gap on its meeting side, making for a nice symmetrical, finished appearance.

   Too late for that in your case, as the doors are already built.

   Actually, I did do this. Here is a picture from an earlier post ..

   View Image

   Thanks for the ideas for the handles. I likes these as well. This weekend I will try to make some based on the ideas presented. Let's see what I can come up with.

   Regards from Perth

   Derek

1. 
   RichClark | Jan 30, 2010 12:09am | #17

   Derek,

   A thought.. maybe make the pulls the exact same size of the inlay diamonds but cut in half? so that they meet to form a diamond?

   My eyes sees the inlays, looking down I see another and then that is what I see for a pull...

   Just a thought.

   Rich

   Rich

10. 
    [email protected] | Jan 21, 2010 12:53am | #16

    Derek,

    Having spent most of a couple of decades in Southern Arizona before moving north, I've had some similar experiences with humidity differentials between dry workshop and the home with evaporative cooling. The solution I came up with was to cool the workshop too, with evaporative coolers. It seemed to have several advantages--by storing lumber in a cooled environment, it reduced the amount of wood movement in the finished pieces, because the workshop humidity was close to that in the house interior. It also provided a kind of dust control too, by bringing in a constant stream of clean, moist outdoor air through the workshop (I miss that advantage here, where evaporative cooling is not used). Finally it made it much more comfortable and pleasant in the shop--I remember one summer spending a day working on a project before I installed cooling, when the high temperature hit 117 degrees F.

    That was an experience I don't care to repeat. I was an impecunious graduate student, but the investment of a couple of hundred dollars for a window unit cooler for my one-car garage workshop made woodworking in the desert a lot easier.

    jackmaggs