Need some advice on my overall woodworking experience
First time I’ve actually posted but I’ve been a dedicated reader of this forum since I began this hobby. And Ive chosen to present my question here only because this forum has my utmost respect for the courtesy and high-level of knowledge you all have.
With that said, please bare with me, I’m gonna attempt to make this as short as possible. Please read it and give me your thoughts. I want to get as many of you as possible to chime in. And I will read every comment and take all advice extremely seriously. I’m not gonna waste anyone’s time.
OK, so I’m a 40 year old electrician. Been doing that job since 15, only job I’ve ever had. A few years ago, circumstances happened that dropped a fully built average sized metal building/shed, in my lap. For a year or so I kinda just threw yard stuff in there and barely cared. Met my now wife, she “pushes” me in a way that actually gets me to do things that I never would have otherwise. Like goals or things we say we wanna do then never do.
About 2 years ago I was attacked by father/son tag team morons that almost killed me. I’m perfectly fine now and 100q healed. But I wasn’t able to work for a significant amount of time. Well somehow in that time, I decided I would be a Woodworker.
I spent all my time fixing up the shed in every way I knew how to get it up to par with a decent looking place. I spent about 6 months working on it. Finally got started “woodworking”.
So here’s my question/problem. I have learned everything by myself. Three methods basically. Online: YouTube, forums, websites. Anything with knowledge. Books/Magazines: I’ve got a stack of many many different kinds. All WW related. The last is bits of advice from people on jobsites and trial and error. This is my only way to learn. I have no highly skilled WW close by that can teach me stuff. I don’t have the ability to attend a school, and not sure there is one near me. I live in a small town, Tennessee. And I definitely can’t afford to take these courses taught by the well known experts.
So I’m pretty much on my own and teaching myself. The problem that I’m now having is that I have hit a wall and I’m not really making anything. I start projects but cant finish them because half way through I think it’s junk and I can’t seem to get push through and finish. In almost two years I’ve only really made some Adirondack chairs for my porch, a couple floating shelves and a few cutting boards that I know for a fact a completely trash and not very good at all.
I have spent money on decent tools. So I have most of the stuff I need. Plus being in construction for my adult life I had tools and a knowledge of building simple stuff and some light framing already.
I did buy one of Steve Ramseys courses. The one where you make a lot of different shop storage and things to sit tools on. I have completed all of those. I will get his other courses eventually. But I really can’t build things on my own without step by step directions because I always convince myself I’m doing it all wrong. I’ve watched THOUSANDS of YouTube videos.
Help me get over this hump and start completing projects. How can I ever improve by trying to learn this hobby by myself? I really look forward to anything you guys can offer me as far as advice. Is this just a long slow process or have I already screwed myself with bad habits and a bad approach?
If you read all that, you are a bad a$$. Hopefully you have some advice for me.
Thanks for allowing me to share guys.
Replies
Pick a project you'd like to build. For arguments sake, lets say a kitchen table.
Don't watch any videos about step by step instructions. Look at lots of pictures of kitchen tables. See what you like, or don't. The shape on this top looks nice, but I like the apron on this one. And the legs on that table.
Then just build it. Start it and finish it. Don't study it to death. Don't try to reproduce something exactly. Don't try to make it perfect. Just do it. And be happy you've done it.
Huh? Maybe in 30 years he'll have discovered the mortise and tenon joint LOL.
No, quite the contrary. Watch lots of videos of masters at work, such as the workshops on this site.
Well ....... one does have to be careful in selecting from "lots of videos of masters at work". Some are not masters, despite the badge they pinned on themselves; many videos are very badly produced or even dishonest, skipping lightly over the difficulties as though they were just a routine and easy matter.
In short, watching "masters at work" can be very misleading; sometimes even dangerous. How many "masters" are happy to risk their fingers and other parts at the table saw, for example, including some in FWW videos who really should know better.
Many of us here learnt woodworking well before videos were a thing at all, never mind available by the hundred at YouBoob and the like. The advantage was that the journey of discovery was one's own, at one's own pace and level of risk, not down some shortcut, shown in a video that leads to the Cliff of Misunderstanding or the Bog of Unmentioned Difficulties ....... or the hospital.
Such lonesome explorations are better with a book-map or even just a magazine that indicates which destination & path to choose of the many.
On the other hand, I learnt lots & lots about the nuances of various hand tool working in a few hours of watching Chris Gochnour's FWW video series on making that Shaker cupboard. Some videos are certainly well-done and do illuminate masterful techniques and considerations.
But how does a novice sort the few ounces of video-wheat from the ton of chaff? FWW videos are quite a good sieve but even here there are some suspicious procedures and lookatme-itseasy stuff.
And they do set a high benchmark, which may suit some novices but will just depress a a fair few others.
Lataxe
I referred to the videos on this site.
I agree there are some pretty atrocious safety things but there are a lot of very good makers out there.
Look for a woodworking club within an hour or two from where you live. Most of the clubs meet once a month. I live in a small town and there are guys who drive an hour or two for our meetings. Some clubs are alot more active than others but you certainly will be able to meet workers with more experience and learn from them. Keep making stuff. I groan at the things I first made and thought were good 15-20 years ago.
The advice above is great. I’ll add you can try the skill builder in the magazine or just practice dove tails, mortise and tenon or any other part of a project. Make what you like and enjoy.
What comes to mind is, "Paralysis by analysis." No project is ever perfect. Almost no project ever goes according to plan. I (almost) always end up fixing this and that, all part of the game. I think once 8-10 years ago, one was perfect. No one will know about those minor chisel slip - except another Fine woodworker. Avoid those people!!
My suggestion is to do your best on a project, learn from your mistakes, and keep making different things. Short term memory loss is good here, don't agonize about the past, just move on. Take care, enjoy the ride. Tom.
I think your statement "I start projects but cant finish them because half way through I think it’s junk..." is very telling and deserves some thought on your part. What about the project is "junk"? The aesthetics? The function? The engineering? The execution?
If you can be more analytical about your work, you may find the answer to your problem.
Good luck!
I assume from your post it is more about motivation and your mind getting in your way, than it is about skills or tools.
I understand that I've been there.
1st piece of advice is think about the person or people getting your work. Best motivation for me. I had an old friend rush to show me a cutting board I made him 15 yesr ago. HE was STILL exited about it after all these years. Pretty minor gift by woodworking standards but most of the people in our lives are NOT woodworkers. Think about your work from thier perspective. My wife gushes more about the things Ive made than the Jewelry I've given her. I've made things for my sons Catholic school and random people stop me at church. It's a powerful gift you have.
Deadlines... while not pleasant tgey also motivate. Commit yourself to a craft show booth. Coasters sell like frech fries. Don't chase online challenges they'll lead to nonsense. Its ok to just play around and slowly make something out of your own head.
Find the enjoyment again.
Your right that there are many great woodworkers giving advice on this forum. Their advice has helped me learn. It helps to take pictures and post them with your questions. Don't be ashamed of the way it looks. Just post it, explain what you did, and wait patiently for advice. You'll get different opinions worth considering. You then can decide based on your tools and experience. You will get over getting mentally hung up. Don't give up.
I’d recommend this small simple project in either cherry or walnut — good hardwoods to hone hand tool skills with. Buy enough lumber to build two and after the first, fix all your mistakes in the second one. Also, plan your finishes ahead of time and shellac is always good for cherry. I’d also keep them both so later on you can look back on how far you’ve advanced. Enjoy the new journey..
https://www.finewoodworking.com/project-guides/chairs-benches-and-stools/build-a-shaker-stool-with-hand-tools
I suspect you are being to hard on yourself, and the stuff you have started to make is no where near as bad as you think it is. No project goes perfectly, or ends up perfectly. But, the reality is the make is usually the only one who sees any of the flaws or minor mistakes because they know where they are. If they don't point them out, no one else would ever notice them. Even if the odd mistake is noticable - doesn't matter. Learn from the mistake, and use the piece as a shop aid. The other advice here is exactly what I would also recommend. Take one of your projects and finish it. Learn what you can, then complete one of the other projects. Like you, I am entirely self taught. Every single project I do gets better and my technique improves each time just by doing it. Make mistakes, learn for yourself what works and what doesn't and you'll be well on your way.
Make something you need, use it, then if you feel you can improve on it nake a better one. I have my first "real furniture project" in my living room.
I have given away many others when I made better versions. The recipients were thrilled at my gifts and I was happy with the replacements...for now at least. Who knows, perhaps they wiĺl be given away next year.
I will always keep that first piece. Make something and use it, burn it, smash it, or live with it. It is all part of the process, but you should follow through because finishing what you start gives you the benchmarks for growth.
We all suck at this in our own quiet moments. Embrace it and grow.
Where in Tennessee do you live? I know it's a big state. I live about 2 hours southwest of Nashville, an hour north of Florence, AL. I'd be happy to help you in person if you are close enough.
Chiming in with the others: If you get halfway thru and think it sucks, finish it anyway. Otherwise, when you get halfway thru and it doesn't suck, the second half of the work likely will suck because you haven't practiced it on the pieces you gave up on.
When I started out, I worked the first 2 years strictly with hand tools, and everything I did I considered practice for when it would count. Was I a hand tool purist? No, I was also buying a 20" planer, a 36" bandsaw, and a 12" radial arm saw, with plans for other machinery. (I didn't have a shop yet to put them in; it got built after I'd been working 3 years.) But I wanted to be able to work efficiently, and to do whatever I wanted to do. Machinery can be accurate and fast, but it is limited. Being adept with hand tools opens up many possibilities.
I was fortunate to meet a woodworker when I was starting who blended machinery and hand tools. He encouraged me to learn hand tools, and mentioned how much faster it was to be able to use both. He encouraged me to learn to use a cabinet scraper on the hard maple I was building a loom out of. (He also mentioned that he would be applying finish to his work while a power tool woodworker would still be changing the belts on his belt sander.)
Learn how to sharpen, then learn how to sharpen better. And better. Proper sharpening is a learned skill, not an observed one. There will be many opinions on how to sharpen; I'm pretty old school. I have a 250/400 diamond plate, a Norton combination oil stone, and a hard Arkansas stone, plus an ancient grinder and an old Eclipse roller guide. You can sharpen with fine sandpaper; cheap to start but expensive over the long run. You can spend a lot of money on sharpening equipment, but you don't have to. Rob Cosman makes it look easy, but his set-up is very expensive by my standards.
By the way, beware of youtube videos that make it look easy. I watched a Paul Sellers video on making a mortise and tenon joint, using two router planes. Very slick technique, I was impressed. However, both pieces of wood had to be EXACTLY the same thickness, and the chisel back had to be PERFECTLY flat for it to work. It's not always easy for a beginner to start with everything perfect!
Many years ago, FWW had a back cover feature on a sculptor who carved very elongated birds (think heron on steroids!) He was quoted as saying "My most important tool is the glue bottle." To glue things back together after they broke or needed a piece of wood to repair them. Learn to repair your mistakes. For example, if a tenon is loose in a mortise, glue a thin piece on and work it down till it fits. If a dovetail has a gap, glue on a thin piece and pare it down to fit (and learn how to add the piece so it is least visible when finished.) Being able to repair mistakes well will be a handy skill as long as you do woodworking. Hopefully, as you practice, it will be less and less frequently needed. But (after 45 years of woodworking), I used it twice on a very complicated, expensive low side table project. And no one else will ever know.
I live near Waynesboro, TN. Let me know if you are close enough for an in-person visit.
Harvey
Don't be intimidated, but you can see some of my work on FaceBook at "Dunmire Hollow Woodshop".
There are some fundamental points made in the above posts:
* Make things that have a clear utility, especially to you.
* Avoid other folk's plans except as illustrations of various styles and assorted joinery techniques.
* Know what kind of complexity you want to make and why. Draw it to scale and from various perspectives (i.e. make your own plan).
* Practice the basic skills before starting a piece demanding those skills.
* Take your time, no need to have a schedule. Change your mind about some aspect of the piece as you go, if you feel it right to do so.
* Break up the piece into discreet tasks, done in the necessary sequence. Don't work randomly.
* When (not if) you make errors, learn the lessons and do it again.
* Avoid perfectionism whilst seeking good standards.
Becoming competent at woodworking is like any other human learning experience - it takes time, practice and mistakes before you gradually become adept at a whole series of skills then amalgamate them into .... "competent woodworker". There is no "right first time". There is no "quick and easy way".
On the other hand, if you're persistent, determined, obsessive and compulsive then you can make a superb piece by the second time of trying. The spoiled bits will later become your knobs, handles, brackets, dowels and practice mitred dovetails. :-)
The best "trick" is to enjoy the learning-journey, especially the mistakes. It's an adventure not a punishment.
Lataxe
Everyone hates to be corrected and I am no different. Having said that (and having been a reporter then an editor at Dow-Jones), I went looking for the words “discreet” and “discrete” on Dictionary.com! [Yes, it is my German-Irish recovering Roman Catholic perfectionist bent that is manifested here.] “Discreet” (as used above) should have been “discrete” (as in the concept of “separate and unique”). My apology for being a P.I.T.A.
Hoy, hoy! Who you replying to, you naughty pedant? :-)
Lataxe the indiscrete.
Remember that the only difference between a novice and an expert is that the expert has already made all the mistakes. You only become an expert at something when you have made mistakes and learn how to avoid them in the future.
You say your furniture is "junk," but so is all the crap at IKEA and people love that junk. If you are unhappy with your results you have to break it down into exactly what is wrong. Is your would not flat and square? you can fix that. Are your joints gappy? you can learn to fix that. Is your design just off? Redesign it. Wrong wood selection? try again with something else.
Everyone on this board has a piece of well-loved junk. Making stuff you think is junk is part of this process.
Most of the skills used in the shop are motor skills. You can only learn motor skills through repetition and feedback. You cannot learn these skills with a video, book, etc. If you want to cut good dovetails, you have to cut them over and over and over. Same with squaring up rough stock. Design is the same way, except it is not a motor skill. It still requires practice.
So finish up your half-completed piles of crap, learn something along the way, then do it again. Eventually, the crap starts to look better. I've been doing this for decades and I'm still frustrated with some of the stuff I'm working on (the stringing on a federal-style leg I made isn't perfect, oh well).
Good luck
Remember: it’s just a piece of wood…learn from it, pick up another, try again…repeat.
Here is my advice, illustrated by one project. I built the table pictured below. The wood is Iroko and some mystery wood I took off a large coffee table. The design was totally stolen from a Tom Dumke table I found online. I drew it to scale, consulted with my design supervisor (wife) and started working. All square joinery, just mortice and tenons and dovetails. My point is you can practice the joinery to get better. Watch YT videos. Practice. Evaluate your results and watch the videos again to pick up on points you missed. Remember sharp tools make your word easier. Learn to use a marking knife when you need to make precision cuts. Remember your results don't have to be perfect. Loose joints can be shimmed and the fix hidden. Good luck. This is a great hobby and can produce some things your will be proud of for a long time.
There is some great advice in these posts. It will be hard to add further depth here, but I will attempt it anyway.
I am an educator by training (I teach at a couple of colleges in NH) and over the years, I have come to recognize that my students are learning when they struggle with new material. The truest learning for us all occurs during the struggle to master new concepts and techniques.
Absorb as much knowledge as you and can and remember that learning anything new is often uncomfortable. The key is recognizing that this discomfort is actually your growth as a woodworker. That said, growth takes consistency, so scaffold your learning by continually trying new and exciting things while honing the basic skills already learned. It really sounds to me that you are in a growth spurt at present which is a wonderful place to be as a learner. Keep at it.
"Mastery" of woodworking comes little by little. It's not like there will ever by some big grand moment where it suddenly happens. If you want to do this, keep at it. My biggest advice is to finish projects despite them not being as good as you would like. I think the mindset of I will keep going and make it and not give up is important. In the 6 years I have been woodworking, I have noticed that things mid project often look ugly and then get better. Don't give up. I have found Paul Sellers YouTube and free website content to be excellent. His work is focused on hand tool but that should give you some fundamentals. There are likely other YouTube content providers who can help you with machine tools.
I am not going to give you woodworking advice. You don't need it. There is nothing wrong with your woodworking, and that's a fact I can sit on even without seeing any of it. Instead I am going to give you some general advice, but first a disclaimer - what follows is a hypothetical analysis of a scenario presented on a social media platform. Although written 'to the OP' it is not individual medical advice and should not be taken as being such. If you feel after reading this that you need medical advice, please speak to your own doctor.
All woodworkers fall into one of two groups - they are either Driver type personalities or Amiable personalities. This is why so many of us suffer from as one poster put it 'paralysis by analysis'. Whilst your partner is certainly a Driver type, you could be either.
Drivers like to lead, or to be well lead, they like people to poo or get off the pot. They get stuck because they are perfectionists and want everything to be 'right' for them the world is quite black and white. They ruminate about and regret all their errors. Almost all regular posters here are this type of person - we are very opinionated!!
Amiables prefer to go with the flow and see where life takes them. They rarely initiate anything, often for fear of being judged harshly. They can be paralysed by indecision. A single error can ruin a project for them, rather than being seen as an opportunity to improve they imagine being judged and hear the criticism of others even when it has not been given. They worry a lot about how others will judge their work.
Now, don't get me wrong - everyone CAN do all of these things, but it's the probability of the order in which you do them that counts.
If you are the first type (relatively unlikely, I think) then know that you will one day improve and get faster - learn from errors and move on. You will also tend to change your mind all the time to 'improve' things, and you need time to let your subconscious process actions you need to take.
If you are the second type, then this is much harder - you will worry that every imperfection will lead to criticism. No amount of waiting about will stop the 'doorbell of doom' from ringing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YS8A2OqGKiI
Get over it.
If you think about it, Ikea sells a shit ton of junk furniture and people are happy. No-one hates on a Billy Bookcase - it's rubbish, but a total icon, gappy joints, KD fixings, thin laminate and all. https://cdn.ikea.com.tr/urunler/2000_2000/PE664927.jpg
When woodworkers talk in forums like this, we are largely trying to improve, but also there is a degree of 'willy waggling' regardless of assigned gender (!) This can lead to readers thinking that we are all ourselves perfect, whereas we are not - I make errors in every single project. Even the simplest may have a bit of tearout or some minor fault. The difference is Robustness Of Ego.
If your ego is not willing to take a knock, then channel your partner - she is willing to take a risk and accept that it may not work out. So you make a mistake - can she see it? No? then don't tell anyone. If she can then fix it, or alter the design to accommodate, or sell it as a 'second' quality item. Nothing you make can be worse than a Billy Bookcase after all.
So there it is - it's nothing to do with your woodwork, rather it is to do with your outlook on life, something which I believe to be genetically determined - blame your parents! Fixing it is not so easy because of that, but you CAN learn to cope. Did you make mistakes as an apprentice electrician? Bet you did. Did you fix them and move on? Sure - channel that and you will be fine.
As for up-skilling that is useful but also an excuse not to begin (which is often a Driver characteristic) There are a lot of online courses and woodwork schools now including Shannon Rogers' hand tool school: https://www.handtoolschool.net/about/ and Marc Spagnulolo's Wood Whisperer Guild: https://thewoodwhispererguild.com/ - there are others, I just listen to their Woodtalk podcast.
Decide what you are going to build.
Determine what 'done' looks like.
Break down the stages you need to do. (again each stage needs a 'definition of done'
Do each stage when you have time to complete it. (allow +50% on what you think to start with)
Remember Yoda.
Rob,
Ah ha - the binary perspective of Drivers & Amiables, eh?! Well, despite being completely uneducated in the formal skools of psychologicals I have discovered another mode - the cyclist.
If one rides a bike in vigorous fashion, as in road racing, time trialling, audaxing or any of them other try-hard modes (and especially the ones where you do it with others, in public and in a traditional mode) you go on a journey of discovering not just the scenery you pass through but your own internal "scenery of the mind".
What can be discovered there of relevance to the avoidance of a fall to the wayside in woodworking? Many things!
The need for persistence, will, determination and what conjures them up. Also the price of failing to obtain them. The relief (and pride) of finishing rather than the shame of giving up.
The realisation that there is no quick way to getting better at it - long and arduous efforts are required; unavoidable; a perverse pleasure.
A gradual acceptance of the paradox that pain often precedes pleasure, especially of the mental kinds.
The realisation that even the races are no such thing for anyone but "the winner" and that for all us others it's the taking part that's the great pleasure, especially when we do it well and to the best of our current ability.
******
A "black & white" or binary explanation of personality types is nice and simple. However, a lifetime of cycle racing (and a longish period of woodworking) have taught me that I actually have about 27 personalities (and counting) which all express one way and another, at various times and in different circumstances. I noticed that everyone else is like this too. :-)
Lataxe
Many people feel that way, and what you say is sound. It is also consistent with my comment!
There are actually four fundamental personality types but only two usually do woodwork or trades.
Anyone can of course, but the natural desires and aptitude granted by your genes is what shapes you most strongly.
To take your cycling analogy, for a Driver, the road goes downhill nice and smooth, for an amiable it is flat, for Analyticals it's a steep uphill grade and for Expressives it's a narrow rocky dusty track through cactus country.
The interesting thing us that an understanding of the genetic determinants of personality and how they affect you can seriously help in overcoming the challenges they create.
Lataxe,
It has been my observation that there are two kinds of people in this world: those that classify everything into two different groups.....and those that don't.
Noviceneil
It's really simple. Look at stuff. I mean really look! All the time, how was it made, what elements made it pleasing or unpleasing for that matter? In what order was it made?
Go into your work space and slug away and don't stop. Woodworkers, Craftsman, artists etc. spend infinite hours in their shops or studios alone usually just keeping at it. This is because they are driven! Only some get a reward.
If you just keep working and sweating away eventually the Muses will take pity on you and impart some bit of knowledge that you didn't have before!
I've never done it myself and someone above suggested don't do it but I don't think buying one of those sets of fullsize plans is a bad way to go. Something that you would like to have or build and there it is all layed out. Woodworking is like being an electrician which your familiar with. It's just a series of small skills, each one is usually not that difficult to master and eventually you have enough of them down that you can do a more complicated project. I can wire a switch for a light ,now how do I wire a 3 way? Taste,style,quality are all subjective. There's this guy on TV. Scott something . You watch him work and he really does have alot of technical skill but somehow he ends up making some of the ugliest crap!
I don't have a lot of experience either, but have hit rough patches where I'm not sure where I'm headed or what to make next. I usually do shop projects then. I have a lot of dovetail boxes in my shop to hold stuff, and it's nice to see the improvement as time goes on.
Not sure if you're suffering from this, but I'd also suggest you do woodworking for yourself, not to meet some standard that you've imagined. And there's no deadline or timeline. Take your time and enjoy the ride. Do stuff that you find fun, but also challenge yourself but don't be too hard on yourself when you screw up (which you will). It's all part of the learning. If you enjoy shop time, learn something new every project, and have something to show for it (even if not perfect), it's all good.
Bro –
Don’t be so F-ing tough on yourself.
Clearly with your mind set you will make nice stuff that cannot be purchased in a store.
An important part of our skill set is to take our best cut and do what we need to do to make it look as perfect as possible.
Adapt on the fly.
Check out Hal Taylor and his forum.
Hal often mentions “Design Opportunities”
I always thought that woodworkers fall into only one category.....the unemployable!
You know, most of my projects look like crap until I glue them up and put on the finish. I know there are all sorts of flaws, but hopefully I've countered them, and the overall piece is sound. So all my pieces are flawed, but nobody notices them. It's part of what "craft" means that it has the human touch.
It helps to start out with simple pieces and perfect them. For that reason, I chose sofa end tables. Four rails, four legs, and a top. If you want to up the challenge, add a shelf. Even more of a challenge add a drawer. And/or get a lathe and turn the legs.
The joinery for a table is pretty simple, and you will get a chance to perfect mortise-and-tenon joints that come together smoothly, with no gaps. The addition of a drawer will introduce you to dovetails if you choose, or other methods of joining the parts that are easier to master, such as a pinned rabbet.
One of the most necessary skills to acquire is the ability to cover up your mistakes.* I'm still doing that after 25+ years at it. I do think there is a certain amount of "paying your dues" to the art of woodworking, that you have to go through, before the secrets open up to you.
*good subject for a magazine article
Type "hide mistakes" into the search box for a few...
Thanks MJ.
The above advice is sound and useful. As a 63 year old who has was self taught in woodworking for 20 years and soon completing my first year in North Bennet Street School’s (NBSS) Cabinet and Furniture program, the best advice I have is to:
(1) Get into the shop and build, build, build….
(2) Obtain solid critiques. These last seven months many of my classmates (who are 19 thru 63 years old with average being about 35, are high school graduates with some being former military, former professionals, executives, artists, laborers, administrators, and having advanced degrees, etc.) became humbled with their woodworking skills then with practice became built back up to where our work is better than before. A good portion of our education being constructive criticism.
Any critique is good only if the critique is: (a) constructive, (b) specific to one feature, element or purpose, and (c) includes an action towards a possible solution. After the critique is receved we then trying the best solution.
A critique indicating a woodworking is junk is too broad and likely impossible to address. Thus, specifically identify exactly what is incorrect, where located, why incorrect, how incorrect, the caused, possible ways to avoid, cover, and repair the mistake, and lastly how to remove and replace the mistaken part. (FYI, all things I have had to do in the last six months with the exception of being able to cover using an embellishment.)
I keep reminding myself, Thomas Edison said, “"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work."
Thus, get experienced expert help.
(3) Use free, accessible expert help.
(3a) Although book study is useful, personal council and guidance is better and can reduce the learning curve. Thus, get help. Never has woodworking help been more accessible. FWW has a 2007 Woodworking Guild Directory. Because it is dated, maybe the readers could let FWW know specific needed changes for their state.
(3b) Alternatively, an Amazon affiliate, http://www.coremoment.com/find-a-woodworking-club-near-you has a 2021 directory for woodworking clubs in Columbia, Knoxville, Mt. Juliet, Leipers Fork, Bartlett, Murfreesboro, Nashville, Brentwood, Dechard, and Chattanooga, Tenn.
(3c) The woodworking community loves to share, so much so, that it’s cumulative noise can be distracting and overwhelming. Thus, to avoid or reduce the noise, I read articles and books by FWW and Lost Art Press. There are others, but those work best for me. Even among them, there will still be conflicts, noise and mistakes, but at least 2 persons in addition to the author has reviewed the author’s work and found value.
(3d) Not including NBSS and besides FWW and Lost Art Press, I have also found value in YouTube videos and tutorials and also podcast how-to’s by Rob Cosman, Paul Sellers, the Wood Whisperer, Stumpy Numbs, Wood by Write, and Shannon Rogers. The most useful pod cast is FWW’s Shop Talk and Shannon Roger’s Lumber Industry Update, but there are others. Many Instagram woodworkers will respond to email and or text if asked. Be forewarned there will be differences in procedures, methods, and opinions among these folks, but in my experience, these folks strive to provide top quality info. are experienced, and add to my toolbox despite their differences.
(4) Make sure your tools are tuned properly and learn how to use them correctly. For instance, edge tools need to be sharp and often reshaped such as a chisel blade’s back needs to be flattened near the cutting edge. How much and how is a matter of opinion. (Additionally, sharp is relative, but my definition for sharp is an edge can cut the end grain of a soft wood, such as northeastern white pine, smoothly without tear out which usually look like small white lines.)
NBSS students own and use all kinds of tools including inexpensive to very expensive, ugly and pretty, very old to new, and damaged to pristine. Once each student tunes, and if needed, makes repairs, the tool performs fine. FYI, rarely is a tool tuned out of the box because to make it that way, the tool would be too expensive. The main difference between inexpensive and expensive tool are expensive tools likely require less tuning effort, may stay sharp longer, are often embellished so are more attractive, and may be easily returned and replaced.
Best of luck.
Hey Slimcharly,
Based on the avalanche of replies to your post, you've clearly struck a nerve! Perhaps we all have some of that perfectionism inside us.
As a recovering perfectionist, I have to remind myself to pat myself on the back every now and then rather than beat myself up. Not always easy to do, I know, but for me, that's how I'm trying to learn to enjoy the hobby more and fret less.
Good luck!
Mike
In your intro post, I see a lot more focus on education, than actual woodworking. If that's how you enjoy the craft, OK. But if it was working for you, you wouldn't be here posting about it. Education is a good thing, but it can take over and become the goal, if you're not careful.
There is no one way to do this thing. You might start out cutting dovetails the same way that a certain woodworker teaches. But then you come across another idea, and it seems to address an issue you've been having. Before you know it, you cut a good dovetail, and the method is your own, incorporating good ideas from several sources.
After being in the 'wilderness' for a couple years, my first actual fine furniture build was the small cabinet / nightstand that Tim Rousseau teaches in one of the many FWW video workshops. I watched very carefully. I drew my own plan from scratch in SketchUp. I ended up with a very nice piece that my wife uses daily.
I highly recommend the FWW Video Workshop series. It's video format, but it's nothing like youtube, both in terms of woodworking knowledge, and professional video production.
FWIW, I agree wholeheartedly with jvannucci's comment that based on your original post, you seem to be stuck in the mode of learning, not doing - i.e., "I've watched THOUSANDS of youtube videos". It's true that you have to have at least some basic knowledge, especially regarding safety and the physics of how tools really work so that you don't get injured. However, just getting a few basic books should be enough for someone who was able to become a practicing electrician to get started on woodworking. I'm self-taught as well, and over the past 40 years have improved my skills significantly (I've had pieces appear in FWW twice), but there would have been no point in reading multiple different accounts of how to cut a dovetail before doing it, or reading about inlaid stringing on federal card table legs before making my first simple end table. Start out with something simple, then as your skill level increases, continue to read about more advanced techniques and more difficult projects, and try them out.
I also happen to collect antique tools, primarily for their historical value. I know of one person who has amassed several thousand molding planes which are kept in boxes in his garage attic and are never used or even looked at. Many others in this organization collect antique woodworking tools but never use them. There are also other collectors who buy every new Bridge City tool, every new Lie-Nielsen plane, etc. and they would never dream of having them touch a piece of wood for fear of jeopardizing their pristine condition. My point is that if someone's interest is in amassing such a collection of finely-made modern tools, or learning all that there is to learn about historic tools, so be it. However, you state that you want to do woodworking and not just study it, and it seems that you may have taken a similar detour, and perhaps you should stop reading/watching about it and just do it.
Just my opinion...
This has been my favorite thread ever, how cool. I've also just started woodworking 2 1/2 years ago. Here's what I've decided so far:
1) The man who enjoys walking will go further the the one who just enjoys the destination. Enjoy your time in the shop.
2) Build something that you want to have at the end. Don't build anything for someone else until they ask for it. (People don't ask unless they like it)
3) Be proud of your mistakes, it's the purest form of learning.
4) If you stop making mistakes, then it's time to do something more difficult and get back to making mistakes.
FI,
You list:
"4 If you stop making mistakes, then it's time to do something more difficult and get back to making mistakes."
Personally I feel this is a main fulcrum when it comes to that question of whether a novice is going to proceed to "competent" or give up. But it seems there are many factors that place this fulcrum just-so into any individual's character.
Some prefer the "nature" explanation - a person is either a "driver" or an "amiable", for example. In the words of my granddaughter's favourite T-shirt: "I think you'll find it' more complicated than that". :-)
There've been a few novices through my own workshop, usually just friends, or a member of their family, who fancy a go at the wood-spoiling. Their attitudes and behaviours have been many and various, from an almost panic-like "I can't do that" to a ridiculous over-confidence bordering on the delusional. And everything in between.
There's a lot of personal and a lot of socio-cultural factors that go into to making someone's history-of-the-mind. The various mindets an individual can form contain all sorts that tend to deplete or bolster self-confidence.
Some who've been teacher-bullied develop a fear & loathing for any new learning, as they expect to not just fail but to be mocked and browbeaten for it. Others believe they are intrinsically unable to do practical things of certain types. (Some woman have been taught - and have come to believe - that there are men-things and woman things, with woodwork tool-use one of the former).
Others are full of the "knowledge" that they've picked up from that YouBoob and similar. They are great at the theory, especially the more madcap theory spouted by the artful "rebels" who like to boast that they know better than "the experts". Their over-confidence is soon revealed ..... although they often ignore their many mistake-lessons in favour of a dogged pursuit of some woodworking dogma or other they've internalised.
Many tricks and mental pokes are required from the teacher to get these various folk to become serious in their purported ambition to learn woodworking. Different approaches work for different personalities. Sometimes the teacher fails - but these mistakes too provide lessons .... in how to better attempt the teaching with such a lad or lass next time.
But how many terrible teachers have we all experienced in our personal histories? My own ratio is about 10 bad ones for every good one! in my yoof, there were dozens who believed that teaching was best done with a cane and buckets of "dark sarcasm in the classroom". :-)
Lataxe, always learning the hard way.
Lat_axe,
Very well written, and I totally agree with everything you've said. On the "terrible teachers" you speak about, I suppose that's the exception to being proud of your mistakes. For, if your mistakes or errors cause someone else to be afraid of learning or doing, then they have caused harm.
I started woodworking when I was about 40, 35 years ago. My first projects came from Woodsmith magazine. My first FineWoodworking project was Bill Cornell's 20" bandsaw. After some years I stopped subscribing to Woodsmith but resubscribed several years later.
The two publications taught me what I know.
+1 on Woodsmith and FWW. (Have never watched a ww’ing YouTube video and prolly never will.. )
Once I realized that the journey was more important than the result, I enjoyed woodworking much more and my projects got better-actually I became more comfortable with my skill level and results!
@slimcharly, good on ya for listening to your wife! She's giving you a nudge and you're listening.
When I was starting to learn woodworking, I found Norm Abrams books and videos very helpful. They're useful projects and the instructions are straight forward for people starting out.
I found it very helpful to follow the instructions step by step, because I didn't know where or how I could make changes. As I've gotten better and have more skills, I use the instructions as references from which I can deviate.
Like others have said here, I'd recommend that you attend a class. I went to Marc Adams. He's got a big catalog of courses, as do several other schools. Local mentors at woodworking clubs are also helpful. YouTube only gets you so far, and it's incredibly valuable to have someone provide in-person feedback and instruction.
You're on a great path. Your motivation is really cool!
My experience is very smiler to yours, I had the opportunity to turn a detached garage into a shop. Things I have learned over the last two years:
1. Always see a project through to the end
2. After I compete a project I conduct a self assessment and actually write down all "lessons learned"
3. Take a few classes, every state has woodworking schools. I live near CT Valley School of Woodworking and some of the skill and project based classes I took there gave me not just a solid foundation, but a practical way to approach problem solving in woodworking. A lot of classes are only a day or two and cost less than $400, which is a lot cheaper than wasting material over and over.
Just my two cents.
How did I learn about woodworking? Never had a class. Watched Norm, Tommy MaC, This Old House, WoodSmith, some things on FW'ing, lots of books, and some pod casts. That gave the basic concepts about wood prep and joinery. Then I got talked into "The Sam Maloof Rocking Chair." This taught me a whole lot about wood shaping - and made me get different tools like rasps and other shaping tools. I bought big things over time like a band saw, old radial arm saw, old spindle lathe, 26" Rockwell cast iron scroll saw, and a bunch of hand planes.
So now when I make something I have a pretty good base how to make things and lots of tools. I am working with more 'problem' wood now, looks good in the end (sometimes, not always), and try to feature the wood as well as sound construction. I am not really fixed on any item or technique.
There is really no one way folks learn how to work wood and make things. Start something, learn from your mistakes, we all make then, and enjoy the process more than the end result.
Excellent post, thank-you all for this conversation.
I too have only been into woodworking for a couple of years and have struggled with many of the same issues you all articulated, so I really appreciate everyone sharing some pearls of wisdom.
My humble two cents…
Two books I have referenced a lot over the past couple of years are:
Every Tool’s a Hammer by Adam Savage. When I listen to Adam I hear a ferocious creator. Brief takeaways include failing forward, the value of organization while working at the bench and around shop in general, thinking outside the box, and just going for it…screwing up a lot…then going for it again and again.
Handmade by Gary Rogowski. Brief takeaway – Gary parallels his woodworking stories with hiking stories (I didn’t mind), but lots of meat in-between the hiking stories. Gary sounds like a tamed stallion – Perfectionist with a temper, he provides an honest look at his woodworking journey. Similar themes of failing forward, organization, and the value of good/well maintained tools, but probably the most consistent theme is going easy on yourself, embracing the journey, and just enjoying the craft. As an aside, Gary is an excellent teacher and offers online courses.
Also, FWW’s Shoptalk Live episode that just posted is quite pertinent to this conversation, as they interviewed two professional woodworkers, Nancy Hiller and Mike Farrington: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vC6rDO2N1uM.
As an aside, I just took on my first ‘commissioned’ piece for a friend and I am surprised how nervous I have been. I recently told my friend, “I am already frustrated because I want to give you a piece that has 20 years of experience behind it, because I know I have better in me, I am just not there yet.” Fortunately, he too is a creator, so as a videographer with almost 20 years of experience he understood and supportively told me, “Just slap some sticks together, put a top on it, and be done with it. It will be great.” Point being, look for friends/family who will be gracious in your early projects and, when you are done, have someone take some really nice pictures of the finished work (don’t point out any of the flaws!), post it on social media, and let the business flow.
Finally, in reference to the youtube rabbit holes many of us have found ourselves down, I appreciated a recent discussion Steve Ramsey had with another youtuber about how much is NOT shown on a video. Specifically, all the edits and hours and hours of standing around thinking in shop, thinking as you walking the dog, or thinking as you drive down the road…So soon we all forget woodworking takes time, lots of time, especially when we are starting out and that there is no edit button in real life, just more glue and sandpaper…or fire.
Keep making and thank-you again for the conversation.
I am a retired family doctor and when I started woodworking two years ago my first project was the hanging wall cabinet by Michael pekovich. This project is accompanied by 20 short videos which are extremely clear in demonstrating a lot of the fundamental woodworking techniques (It’s available to all FW subscribers, I believe). I was able to complete this project in a decent fashion including making a small dovetail drawer and hanging a door. My daughter now proudly displays it near her front door. So this might be an initial project to try. Additionally, the profound level of procrastination that you described makes me think of the possibility of adult attention deficit disorder. Having two children with this and also having seen many patients over the years who could not complete things and were eventually diagnosed, through psychological testing, I came to realize it’s a lot more common than perhaps appreciated. I’m certainly not trying to diagnose you from a far and realize this could be completely off-base. Feel free to ignore these comments completely. My only interest is in raising the possibility as a means of being helpful. If you think you’d like to consider this further, I could recommend the book entitled Scattered Minds by Gábor Máté to see if his descriptions resonate with your own perceptions of your mind.
Best of luck, woodworking rocks!
AC
To be a competent and skilled woodworker is no easy feat. However, if you put the time and effort in you will get there. You have to be patient with yourself and understand that you can't possibly learn everything in a day. You'll have a lot of things go wrong when you are making something, but it's not about feeling bad that you made a mistake, it's about having the mindset that you can fix it. Woodworking is pretty forgiving most of the time. Just pick some simple projects that are slightly challenging to you. From there you can learn what to do and not to do. Then you can move on to more advanced projects. Just give yourself time and be patient. I've been doing custom woodwork for 15 years and when I first started it seemed difficult, but with each project you complete you gain skills and knowledge. Keep pushing forward and keep your head up. I'll be following this post if you have any questions.
This forum post is now archived. Commenting has been disabled