Replies

1. 
   dherzig | Sep 18, 2007 05:11am | #1

   I will try to add a picture of one I am building. It is 42X78 in mahogany. The legs are 2.5" square but tapered inside and the top is 1.25" thick.

    

    

   
2. 
   Lataxe | Sep 18, 2007 10:41am | #2

   Johnny,

   I made a large pitch pine dining table of a fairly rustic kind that you can see here:

   http://forums.taunton.com/fw-knots/messages?msg=30379.1

   When making tables to sit and eat at, the ergonomics are important.  It has to be the right height, have sufficient clearance under the aprons for knees and be sized for the required maximum number of diners.  You will find that this tends to limit the depth of the aprons, for instance.

   Lataxe

1. 
   WillGeorge | Sep 18, 2007 01:36pm | #3

   Nice work.. I for one LOVE it!I think I'll go out and look for some pine to recycle..

2. 
   9619 | Sep 18, 2007 05:06pm | #4

   Lataxe,
   I looked up your pine table. Very nice. The set of photos shows most of your joinery. My one question is: how is your table top assembled? eg, are the ends breadboarded in? Did you glue or did you put dowels through the tenons?When do you find time to do actual woodworking? I have heard a rumor that you are actually a Frenchman who lives near Toulouse, and who translates his messages from French into that language you use. That must take a lot of time. I have been studying your writing, and it seems to be a literal translation from an ancient, almost forgotten, dialect of Aramaic. How the heck would a Frenchman learn Aramaic?MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot. 

1. 
   Lataxe | Sep 19, 2007 01:35pm | #6

   Mel,

   First, let in any gorilla that knocks at your door- it is for your own good.

   The table top BB ends are quite narrow (around 5cm) so they are held onto the top via a double row of large S6 (or is it S9) biscuits.  The two pairs nearest the middle are glued but the others are waxed, to ensure the BB end can slide relative to the top (it needs to as the table lives in a cellar where the humidity varies quite a lot as the heating goes on and off).

   To add a bit of strength, there are three 8mm diameter, 150mm long stainless steel bolts let into the middle of the BB end and through into the tabletop.  These are held in place by plugs over their ends rather than by the threads of the bolts (these threads are into the endgrain of the table top, you see).

   The table top boards themselves are just edge glued.  I use a plano press which makes such large glue-ups easy as the plano press is mountd verticaly on a wall and presses boards flat as well as clamping their edges together.  The only issue is getting huge, heavy glued-up panels like that tabletop lifted out again. 

   I have an even larger oak table top in the plano press just now, awaiting my completion of the understructure (trestles and stretchers) that it will sit on.  I will need a strong friend or two to get the top out of the p press.

   ***

   I have never been a French bloke but I once smoked a gaulloise.  It was disgustin' but then so is that filthy habit no matter what the fag involved.  Note that I have no filthy habits now, except for them trouser I got glue on.

   Lataxe, who puts biscuits here and there just to annoy the natterjacks.

1. 
   9619 | Sep 19, 2007 03:21pm | #7

   Lataxe,
   Thanks for the info on the breadboarding of the table top.I had never heard of a Plano Press before your message so I looked them up. Very nice. That's why I stay on Knots - to learn more good stuff. I have a nice set of Bessey K clamps and a bunch of pipe clamps, so I do it the old way. It works, but the Plano Press looks MUCH nicer.Just last month, I learned about a guy named "Art Carpenter". Had never heard of him before that. Last night, at the meeting of my woodworking group, I met a guy who apprenticed with Art. I spent about 20 minutes listening to him, and learning about life in Art's shop, and Art's approach to different types of tools. It was not what I expected. That made it fun.Merci beaucoups.
   Laissez les bon temps roullez!
   Mel
   PS - I still use biscuits sonmetimes too, but I am drooling over that Festool Domino. I don't see any advantage of biscuits over mortise and tenon, as you get with the Domino. So I may sell my biscuit joiner. There are times that I just don't want to take the time to make handmade M&T, and the Domino just takes seconds to make them with, and they fit like a glove. I predict that you will make the plunge soon, since the increase in quality is enormous. Besides, with biscuits, you often get a sunken area after the moisture from the glue dries out. You don't get that with the Domino.
   Measure your output in smiles per board foot. 

1. 
   KiddervilleAcres | Sep 19, 2007 04:18pm | #8

   Mel, Mel, Mel,

   but I am drooling over that Festool Domino

   Don't tell me your fascination with hand tools has waned?  If that's the case then I know a great charity you can donate them to.

   Kidderville Acres Old Hand Tool Admiration Society. 

   We gladly accept donations and they aren't tax deductable either.  No need for all that paperwork at the end of the year!

   Bob, the Pied Piper of old tools

   P.S. Lataxe:  Better get that gorilla suit ready.  Mel's gonna need your help.  We can't afford to lose another galoot!

   Bob @ Kidderville Acres

    

   A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!

   Edited 9/19/2007 9:19 am ET by KiddervilleAcres

2. 
   9619 | Sep 19, 2007 04:53pm | #11

   Bob,In this short message, I will display my deepest beliefs subtly. Sincerely,
   Mel the GalootMeasure your output in smiles per board foot. 

3. 
   Lataxe | Sep 19, 2007 05:22pm | #12

   Mel,

   It is probably OK to be a galoot - there seem to be one or two decent self-proclaimed 'loots about. However, you need to avoid becoming a gadrooned galoot, as this involves the production of over-much frou frou for frou frous sake.

   Of course, in your case there is danger of you becoming a gorilla'd galoot, as you have spoken unwisely about our lords, ladies and rulers: the moggies.  That sort of "to skin a cat" language is all too common in Knots and must be eliminated, subito.

   Worst of all is the garret gadrooned galoot.  This is one o' them artistic types that believes the only way to True Art in cabinet-making is to practice various forms of self-immolation and to live in a tiny room sans-facilities at the top of an old house.  They use queer old tools that everyone else has tossed away aeons ago; and insist on making the planks all bumpy, to Be Unique.

   Actually, there is one worse stage: the Greater garret gadrooned galoot.  In this case, the galoot insists on shouting nonsense from the garret window at passers-by in the street.  After a while, a concerned citizen calls the rozzers and the wild-eyed one is hauled away babbling, to become a gaoled great garret gadrooned galoot. 

   Of course, the other prisoners are an unforgiving crowd, so the gadroons are soon stripped away along with the pretensions ..........

   *****

   I see you have not got to grips with biscuiting, by the way.  Sunken bits!  Cuh!!

   Lataxe

    

4. 
   saschafer | Sep 19, 2007 04:35pm | #9

   Lee Valley makes some clamp components that you can use with a pair of hardwood cauls to build something similar to the Plano Press: http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=31181&cat=1,43838

   It doesn't have a lot of "flattening" pressure, but in my opinion you don't really need that much.

   View Image

   -Steve

    

   Edited 9/19/2007 9:39 am ET by saschafer

5. 
   9619 | Sep 19, 2007 04:48pm | #10

   Steve,
   Excellent idea.
   Those Canadians are quite clever.
   Thanks for letting me know about the Lee Valley clamps.
   MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot. 

3. 
   achome | Sep 22, 2007 12:43am | #13

   Beautiful table, Lataxe.  Looks pretty sturdy that's for sure.  How long is it?  Can you share some of the details?

   thanks for writing.

   Johnny

1. 
   Lataxe | Sep 22, 2007 01:19pm | #14

   Johnny,

   Here is another thread about the table: http://forums.taunton.com/fw-knots/messages?msg=29318.1

   The thing is knock-down as it had to be wheedled into a cellar throgh a tight space.  Also, it weighed a ton and the KD aspect allows bits to be caried by humans rather than cranes!

   I used Lee Valley bed bots to attach the long aprons to the (glued together) leg/short apron end-assemblies.  Those LV bed bolts are substantial and use large brass barrel nuts.  The bolt heads are hidden in countersunk holes with a diameter big enough to get a ratcheting wrench on. 

   The countersunk holes and bolt heads are hidden under them ovaloid dangle-down bits, hung with a nail to match those left in the table and with grain to match that of the leg they are danglin' agin'.  One could use instead posh brass danglers sold by LV for the purpose.

   The short aprons are let into the legs via bridle joints, except that the outer end of the apron "bits" were shortened and then a grain-matched patch was stuck into the gap left in the outer end of the leg's "bridle".  This made the whole joint easy to cut on the bandsaw.  Just to make sure, the joint is blind-pegged through from the inside with two dowels located right next to apron shoulder.  Only the first 35mm of the "bit" is glued into the"bridle".

   Hopefully, all the above will prevent any racking.

   I put a cross member in half way down the long rails to make sure the top is supported in the centre.  It too is KD, using a part-glued, part-screwed dovetail joint, as the picture shows.

   The top is glued up from through and through planks to give that repeating pattern.  The outer planks of the top have nails in them (one side are the originals from the recovered beam; the others are matching cut nails got from LV and knocked into predrilled holes messed up a bit with black wax, to make them look as old as the real ones.

   The BB ends are quite small and more for decoration than to keep the top flat (the wood is so old and seasoned that it's unlikely to warp).

   The legs are all from solid 4" X 4" blanks (except one, where I made an error and had to glue up a new leg from two planks).  They are tapered on their inside faces "by eye", using bandsaw, then plane.

   At least, this is how I remeber things.:-)

   Lataxe

3. 
   smslaw | Sep 18, 2007 11:18pm | #5

   I sort of inherited one, made by former SIL.  It has a pine top about 38 x 84, clunky square legs, (look like VG fir), tapered from about 3.5 inches to about 2.75 inches.  5/4 top.  Fairly wide aprons (about 6 inches), such that you can't cross your legs underneath.  3 inch overhang.  Poly finish.  Ugly, but sturdily functional.  If it had been made in a nicer wood, with more delicate proportions, perhaps some beading on the aprons, it would be nicer, but then not really the farmhouse style.