Hello, everyone
I need some advice. I am relatively new to woodworking and I am going to build my first “serious” workbench (my previous workbench was a 2″ slab of maple on some saw horses.) I really like the Kirby style bench but I know that my skill level is not at a level where I would achieve satisfactory results… I don’t want a wobbly bench. I downloaded an article written by Cecil Braeden which contains plans for a plywood bench. I really like that bench and I feel that its construction better matched my abilities, but I am concerned about getting the plywood top flat enough to achieve good results from planing, a skill I am hoping to learn. Even “flat” plywood is sometimes not totally flat and I know that I cannot plane plywood flat like I can solid wood.
Given that, here are my questions:
1. How flat is the “dead” flat that I read about in the planing books? Can I achieve this with plywood and still have decent results when planing boards?
2. The MDF that I have seen looks like it could be pretty flat. Would that be an acceptable benchtop? I want to install a cast iron vice. If I used MDF for the top would it have sufficient strength to hold the lag screws?
3. When it comes to stewed prunes, are three enough and are four too many?
Thanks for any help that you can offer.
Greg
Replies
Hi Greg,
Welcome to the wonderful world of woodworking.
Let me start by saying that I think Cecil Braeden's bench is an excellent choice for someone with limited skills / equipment looking to build a serious bench. A good bench isn't essential to doing good work, but it helps. At the same time it doesn't make much sense to get in over your head on project which will only frustrate you.
With Braeden's plywood/MDF design you should have no problem consructing a nice flat bench top. But the flatness of the bench top has little to do with how flat you can plane a board. What you are looking for from your bench is: that it can hold the work piece firmly in place; that it doesn't flex under stress; and that it is heavy enough or anchored so that it doesn't skate all over the shop while planing. I think Braeden's design meets all those requirements. How flat you plane the board is up to you and your plane. Don't get me wrong, it is nice to have a known flat reference surface especially when assembling doors and drawers and such so it is to your benefit to build your bench as well as you can.
The only concern I would have with MDF is that it might not be real durable, but I'm sure there are others on this forum who have used MDF bench tops and can report first-hand on that. Even if it does get beat up, with this design it's easy enough to pull out a few screws and drop in a fresh piece every couple of years.
Good luck,
-Chuck
Edited to add:
The MDF will not do a very good job with the lag screws but the plywood sub-layer will.
I have no knowledge of prunes, but I am getting of the age where I might be interested in hearing what other have to say:)
Edited 6/14/2006 11:03 pm ET by chuckh
Hey, thanks to everyone for your kind words of welcome and for taking the time to reply to my post. I think in the end, I am going to go with the Braeden plywood bench and see how that turns out. I will let you all know how it goes.
Greg
gmpatterson,
If you use a plywood top the surface is going to get chewed up pretty quickly...or, worse yet, you'll protect the top and not get full utility of your workbench. As Adam indicated, you can nail onto the top a stop for planing...two parallel stops with a wedge for clamping panels or holding jigs....perpendicular stops for square glue-ups.
This isn't the only method to do these tasks but the workbench can provide many options other than running to store for more stuff...
Edited 6/16/2006 7:14 am ET by BG
Welcome to Knots, Greg.
Look to the left of this post and click on "Advanced Search" and then type in "workbenches". You should find some pretty good information.
Also, check out this site below. You'll see a lot of benches from primitive to perfection, all usable.
http://www.shoptours.org/
Good luck
oldfred
Hi Greg,
I'm still new to WW also but I've built a couple of benches that have so far been quick to build and very sturdy and flat. I built 2x6 frames (four members in each plane) with 10d nails. 2x6 members were added to the top surface. Then I added a couple of 5/8" sheets of plywood with #8 screws. Then I added a 1/2" sheet of plywood with #6 screws (sunk slightly below surface). The last layer is separate so I can easily change a worn/damaged surface later.
I've done some basic WW including picture framing on them so far and they seem to be steady and flat. The large sheets of glass I was cutting seem to have agreed. :)
I see plans for fancy hardwood benches with fancy WW joinery but I'd rather save that effort for real furniture, not tools.
I'm going to build a shorter version next with UHMW for feet so I can drag it to the back of my TS when I want an outfeed table. (Cheaper and more stable than casters.)
A 1. My plywood top is flat enough for glass. I'm too new to planing (just got my first handplane) to answer the question though.
A 2. I personally don't think MDF is strong enough to resist dents/scratches. Besides, its ugly and I don't like paint. I've got my 10" LV vise mounted happily in the plywood.
A 3. I'm not old enough for stewed prunes so, again, I can't answer this one. There seems to be plenty of others on this forum that should be old enough to answer it though. ;)
Andy
Look for threads and posts about torsion boxes, in addition to workbenches. The MDF is strong enough for lag bolts if the threads are in a hole of the correct size and they're not over tightened. I made a bench with two layers of 1/2" MDF, glued and screwed. I then coated it with a couple of coats of polyester resin. I mixed mine a little too hot but it's smooth enough for what I use it for. The resin makes the surface a lot more durable and I haven't really gouged or dinged it at all. Yes, a chisel, drill bit or router will damage it but they'll do the same thing to solid wood.
Since a vise needs a thicker front anyway, you can bolt the piece of wood that builds up the front edge from the top and through-bolt the vise. My vise doesn't move at all. I used 2x4 with steel brackets for the frame, and bought the brackets at HD. I added a couple of storage cabinets below and they really add a lot to the bench's stability.
if you have a 2" slab of maple why not incorporate it into the design of your new bench???
Hi Greg,
Dead flat is pretty flat. I can easily plane a surface to within .010". (That's actually not that flat.) But solid benches don't stay flat and that's generally okay. The problem with lumpy benches is smoothing wide thin stock. Frankly, I don't do much of that. The center of my bench raises and falls .06-.10 seasonally. So I don't really think flatness is much of an issue.
Plywood can be flat, as can mdf, but its stiffness can be the problem. You don't want a bench that deflects under planing load. A 3/4" thick top may not do it. But I'm not sure what design you are looking at.
You certainly don't need a fancy bench to learn planing- you don't even need a vise, in fact, I would recommend skipping it. Any flat surface will do. I've planed stuff on the floor, I was just planing a huge board on saw horses.
My advice regarding benches is to make it l-o-n-g. At least 8' and hold off on the vises. Start with just a planing stop, two holdfasts and two jorgensen parallel clamps. Notthing else. Stick with that one month longer than you want to. At the end of that time, you'll know exactly what sort of vise you need.
Adam
Start with just a planing stop, two holdfasts and two jorgensen parallel clamps. Notthing else. Stick with that one month longer than you want to. At the end of that time, you'll know exactly what sort of vise you need.
Thanks for your advice, Adam... I intend to take it. Can you help me understand the method you are describing? Would the planing stop be a board coming out perpendicular to the surface of the bench, as I have seen on Ian Kirby's benches? What exactly are the holdfasts and how do I use them/the parallel clamps?
Thanks, Greg
Greg,
Actually, this would be a good magazine article. I've heard the idea kicked around enough. Does seem to me that folks need to learn to use workbenches. Tell you what- I'll send you a private email, then I'll see if I can't find an author for this for my column.
Adam
A holdfast is an iron or steel, roughly L-shaped, "bracket," used in conjunction with a bench dog hole to hold a work piece firmly to the bench.
This link has an illustration:
http://www.tools-for-woodworking.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=6152
Very useful to have a couple of these, especially if you have no vices on your bench; also very useful even if your bench does have a vice.
To use it, just slip the longer round side into the dog hole and place the flat on the work piece. Then give the top a couple of gentle taps with a mallet to secure it in the hole and secure your work piece. To release, just tap a couple of times opposite the "L" part on the side near the top and pull it up to re-position your work piece or completely out of the dog hole, if you're finished.
Cheers!
James
Greg,
I'm going to offer a slightly different reason regarding the need for a "flat" workbench surface other than preventing boards from rocking while you work them. When assembling pieces it helps to have a work surface that will not cause any distortion in joint alignment. Distortion can also be caused by not having a level table. To determine if a piece with feet is level, a flat workbench can serve as your reference point. If it rocks, something is amiss.
Doug
I'm going to offer a slightly different reason regarding the need for a "flat" workbench surface other than preventing boards from rocking while you work them. When assembling pieces it helps to have a work surface that will not cause any distortion in joint alignment. Distortion can also be caused by not having a level table. To determine if a piece with feet is level, a flat workbench can serve as your reference point. If it rocks, something is amiss.
Absolutely correct.
Check out the following link if you havent been there yet:http://www.workbenchdesign.net/great ideas and inspirational pics...john roy
OK, a flat place for assembly is best but a true cabinetmaker's "workbench" isn't always wide enough for assembly of anything large. An assembly table would be best, I think. A 4'x4' torsion box with a double thickness top would be ideal. Big enough for most projects and it could be made to fold up so it stores out of the way, with levelling feet.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
True for very large pieces. I built a low assemble table on casters that slides under the work bench when not is use - it also makes a great foot rest. I have a 4' x 5' out-table/cabinets with th TS that subs as an assemble work surface as well. These alternate work areas are very flat and level.
and I am going to build my first "serious" workbench
I'd say anything as long as it is STABLE.. And does not rock as you plane something...
Look for a copy of HAND TOOLS, THEIR WAYS AND WORKINGS by Aldren A. Watson.
It contains a plan for a pretty nice, easy to build bench. Your 2" maple slab might be a perfect top for it.
When I built it years ago, I did not have power tools. I copied out details of the plan and took them to a lumber yard that did mill work. In about 15 minutes, for minimal cost, I had a set of precisely cut parts. The rest was mostly assembly.
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