I have an odd problem that I hope someone has some experience with.
I bought a new 90 tooth “Ultimate Polished Finish” 10 inch blade for my table saw. It’s a Ridgid R1090C. Needed a new blade, and there it was at the Big Box store. Salesman said that it was the cat’s meow.
It makes a very nice cut, clean finish, no tooth marks, etc, but, regardless of the type of wood I’m cutting, the piece that I’m cutting climbs up the blade (lifts off the saw table) quite aggressively when I’m ripping unless I use a hold down. Kiln dried oak, poplar, plywood, you name it. It hasn’t kicked back yet, but it frankly raises the little hairs on the back of my neck!
This is less pronounced, but still present, if I expose the entire blade to do the cut, but when I just expose enough blade to clear the gullets above the piece, scare-me time!
Oh, yeah, both the blade and the rip fence are parallel to the miter slot in the table, and each other, and I’m not using a splitter.
Any thoughts?
Mike D
Edited 2/17/2007 12:07 pm ET by Mike_D
Replies
This is one of the downsides to using a blade with that many teeth for ripping. Raising the blade mhigher will help.
Lee
I wondered if it wasn't the number of teeth. On reflection, 90 does seem like a lot for anything but melamine.
Mike D
You don't say what the tooth configuration is. Triple chip will be worse at this problem than either an ATB or ATB with a raker. For wood go for either ATB or an ATB with a raker. Most combo blades will have around 40 teeth. Deeper gullets are not possible on a blade with 80 teeth and clearing waste will become a real issue.Lee
Looking at the blade, it is strictly alternating tooth, no raker, and while I don't have a protractor handy, it looks like a pretty shallow hook angle as well.
In fact, the Ridgid site says that hook angle is 5 degrees, as opposed to the 30 degree hook for the new Premier Fusion blade from Freud. The hook angle alone should be a big help.
Think I'll pop for a new Fusion blade.
Mike DCorrection, I misread - it's an 18 degree hook angle - still....
Edited 2/17/2007 1:39 pm ET by Mike_D
Edited 2/17/2007 1:45 pm ET by Mike_D
Edited 2/17/2007 2:35 pm ET by Mike_D
When I first saw the 5* degree hook you posted, I though the blade was a - 5* negative hook made for SCMS to push the stock against the fence as opposed to positive hook on TS blades.
I went to the Rigid site and it is 5* positive.. I wouldn't personally use it for ripping. Too many teeth, not enough positive hook and definitely not enough gullet to remove waste as Lee stated. What you got is dangerous in a ripping situation as evidenced by the climbing.
I would see if you can return it for a refund or keep it for melamine. Whatever you do, good luck..
Regards...
Sarge.. jt
Hook, schmook, Sarge, that's a da*$ned crosscut blade. Too funny. forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Morning FG..
The 90 teeth speak for themselves as far as not being a ripper. But that 5* degree lead me to believe that it was actually a fine cut-off blade for a SCMS which should have a 5* negative hook and for a purpose. The negative hook throws the stock toward the fence and prevents climb as those are upper cutting teeth on a SCMS.
If you use a negative hook on a TS, it has just the opposite effect as the teeth cut on the down stroke as opposed to the up stroke on a miter saw and it will cause stock to climb. That scenario is like "flicking your Bic" as you pump gas in your car. ha.. ha...
So... a problem has been identified here with a simple solution. But... my question is who will solve the problem of a HD employee that has recommended a 90 tooth blade to someone that request a ripping blade? Unfortunately it has become a everyday occurrence at both Big Orange and Big Blue as I see this type of error from the in-experienced employees that has become the trend. As long as you got a pulse, go ahead and clock in!
Where have all the flowers gone? Gone to greener pastures everyone!
Regards...
Sarge.. jt
"my question is who will solve the problem of a HD employee that has recommended a 90 tooth blade to someone that request a ripping blade?" From Mike's last post, it sounds like the clerks are off the hook. He came up with the idea all by himself, LOL! I still laugh, though, about the idea of asking them if they carry 4x2 stock.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Mike, toss it or bring it back to the orange box. buy a forest blade. And be safe my friend and lets get the splitter on!
LMC
Is it possible that you got a blade designed for a RAS or miter saw? These blades have less of a hook angle than a TS blade and could cause the condition you describe.
Steve
Mike,
A blade with that many teeth is probably designed for Crosscutting ONLY!
Bob, Tupper Lake, NY
Edited 2/17/2007 1:53 pm ET by salamfam
My guess, based on the name of the blade, is that it's not designed to be a ripping blade! Goodness gracious, I just went over to homedepot.com and looked at it. IT'S A 90-TOOTH BLADE!!!
It's probably akin to the Freud Ultimate Cut-off blade. Made for mirror-polished cross-cuts.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Edited 2/18/2007 1:01 am by forestgirl
"and I'm not using a splitter.
Any thoughts? "
Mike, you might considering stopping at the local quick-mart and picking up a lottery ticket. Using a 90-tooth blade, with the close clearance that one has, and a 5° hook, you're definitely living a charmed life at this particular moment in time.
If you need an incredibly smooth edge on a ripped piece of stock, find a good "glue-line rip" blade. Freud, Forrest, CMT, Tenryu, whoever. Rigid might even have one, but save the blade you got lucky with for crosscutting. wow
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
I agree with the other posts that you are using the wrong blade for ripping. Even so,the boards should not climb.Is it possible that you have installed the blade backwards?This would have a tendency to raise the stock and throw it forward.
mike
Ripping hardwood with a blade that has positive hook is basically the same as putting it in backward. There's no way the sales guy has a tiny bit of a smidgen of a fraction of a little part of a clue about what he just recommended this blade for. Good thing nobody was injured by his ignorance.BTW, the blade's uses are usually printed on the packaging. I don't like trying to read the tiny little print, either, but it's something we all need to do a bit more, IMO. I just hate carrying reading glasses with me.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
Hi,
Thanks to all that have responded and for all the knowledgeable input.
I love this site. I now know not only why the blade behaves like it does, and why it's such a mismatch for what I'm using it for.
It seemed like such a simple choice. ...90 teeth - cool! ...the "Ultimate Polished Finish" - wow! ..... Duh!
But much as I appreciate some of you for cutting me some slack on the purchase, it's not a clerk at HD's fault (or Lowe's, I can't remember which store I bought it at). This was clearly my own fault - I'm responsible for my own safety and I should have researched it better.
I HAVE taken the 90 toother off the saw, and I HAVE ordered a Freud combination blade, and I AM blushing at not being smarter than this. Annnnd, I still have all my fingers - think of that!
Mike D :) Learning new stuff everyday.
P.S. The new Freud Ultimate Fusion blade is a good choice for both ripping and cross cut, yes? Thought I'd ask before I install it. Mike D
Edited 2/18/2007 12:17 pm ET by Mike_D
Hi, Mike, glad you're taking our feedback in good humor. If you'd like a quick reference chart on blades for various purposes, and their configuration, click here. Even if you don't buy Freud blades, the chart can be extremely useful in figuring out what certain specs might be intended for, or what to look for if looking for a particular type of blade.
If you ever go to the WWing shows, you can stop by the Freud booth and pick up a printed copy of the chart, and a small sawblade catalog that lists all the specs for each of their blades.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Thanks, forestgirl, I shall peruse yon chart, forthwith!
Mike
Mike, if you've decided to keep the blade, grab a piece of oak or maple and do a crosscut with it. Bet you'll realllly like what you see. That shiney surface is great for end-grain that's going to show. Not so great for any gluing, LOL.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
"Ripping hardwood with a blade that has positive hook is basically the same as putting it in backward." This statement makes absolutely no sense to me. Negative hook blades are designed for RAS and sliding miter saw use, and for cutting melamine and plastics. If you know of a designated table saw rip blade that has a negative hook, I'd love to read about it. Might be able to use it to do some woodburning.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Sorry, I switched positive and negative hook angles. Mea culpa.Actually, my statement makes perfect sense if you make the same mistake I did.Hook schmook!"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
Edited 2/18/2007 12:44 pm by highfigh
I see that it's 5° positive hook angle, which is usually for cutting veneers and laminates. This will slice through the top layer from the center out toward the tooth tips, which prevents chipping. This is not a rip blade and I don't ever remember seeing a 90T rip blade in my life.
Another case against believing what the big box sales people have to say.
More teeth means more friction and more heat. It is likely the blade is heating up and distorting the plate that hold the teeth. Those kind of blades are not meant for ripping.
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