I left my cushy desk job in April with 3 good paying cabinet jobs happening at the same time. I’ve done only 3 other respectable paying jobs since then; two entertainment centers and a home office set of cabinets.
Every client I’ve had has praised my work and passed my cards onto other people. Several of these clients have had me do small follow up work for them with promises of bigger work in the future.
I’ve contacted every interior design company (60+) within 100 miles of me and only made it to three interviews to show my portfolio. They all promise to give me a try…that’s been over six months now.
I had 250 high gloss color postcards professionally made advertising my company and I mailed these cards to 100+ homes in the very well off subdivisions around this area, places where you can tell the people like to have fancy work done for them. I only received 2 calls from people that wanted me to come over to talk about work; one guy living in a 5,000+ sq/ft million dollar McMansion wanted me to practically give him a cherry computer armoire ($1,500 was too much for him) and the other guy that called actually gave me a decent home office job.
Now I’ve basically been sitting by the phone since Christmas waiting for it to ring. I also check my bank account online every few days and watch my start up funds melt away. I have a great business plan written up and even the bank liked it enough to approve a small loan. Of course, the business plan does nothing without clients!
Whenever I actually do get to meet a prospective client, 90% of the time I get the job. But now, I can’t even find people willing to meet with me.
Any thoughts or ideas from those of you that have made it? Any tricks or even contacts in the Detroit area? I’m not a hack, and I have plenty of actual custom shop experience.
Thankfully I have a very supportive wife, but it tore me up seeing her looking in the help wanted ads today trying to find herself a job while I try to hack wood for a living.
Thanks, molten
Replies
You are probably better off trying to do sub-contract work for builders/remodelers in the area. Buy a couple of jobs until you ge a street rep.
Starting a woodworking business is like any other business. You need to build your book and the only way to do that is to ask as many people as you can during the day to have them give you their business.
_________________________________
Michael in San Jose
"In all affairs it's a healthy thing now and then to hang a question mark on the things you have long taken for granted." Bertrand Russell
We also live in southeast Michigan and the economy is really slow. Unemployment is second highest in the nation.
Last year and this year a very large number of GM and Ford employees (tens of thousands nationally) have taken various substantial buyout offers, which generally included substantial cash payments and/or early retirement. I wonder how many will decide to start their own woodworking businesses, and what portion of those businesses will still be around in five or ten years.
David,
You hit the nail on the head, that is the difference, even tho I am an employee of my own business I cant lay myself off, and as far as putting away for retirement you can't just pay your employees and put the money in the bank instead. The real boss is the economy. Customers are generally not a problem if you give them what they have asked for, employees will generally do what they want not what you have asked them to do but there is little you can do when there is a shortage of labor, I am sure they mean well.
Grey
Thinking along Mike's lines - it seems you're trying to do retail work. When I started on my own (not by choice, and not a similar line of work) I went "wholesale". (I'm doing classes). My client (who has the mailing list) rounds up the victims and I show up and do my thing. Most times the party with whom I'm actually doing business add 10 or 15% on to my fee to cover their overhead expenses.
Builders, GC, remodlers, etc, that have been established for some period of time would seem like potentials worth exploring.
Molten,
Have you tried networking? Within the trade and professional groups? BBB? Chamber of Commerce?
Your response on your mailers was 1%- a fair return on direct marketed mailers.
Consider inserts in advertising papers - cheap advertising. In my experience with marketing materials across many industries, if the buyer isn't looking at the time they pick up the ad, it gets trashed - no matter how nice & fancy it is. It is just as effective from a photocopier as from a color laserjet.
find a niche that will provide quick turnover on money with minimal labor to fill in the slow times.
Check with shops in your area for overflow work.
Don't let people that don't value custom work get you down. Most don't realize the cost of materials in a job. If they have a problem with your pricing, just ask them how much they will allow you to make a week? I haven't had anyone rebut me on that one yet.
Don't get too discouraged yet, its still your first year. It often takes 2-3 years to start seeing any profit.
Hello Molted,
Things have slowed down for me here in Texas a bit as well. Fortunately I have a handyman sideline that fills in the gaps (the handyman gig was first) 80% of my cabinetry jobs came from handyman customers or their friends. I don't know if that will work for you or not.
As far as advertising and marketing.... don't take this the wrong way, but if you really are waiting around by the phone you are missing out on a lot of work. Print up business cards or small fliers with one colour picture on them go to the nicest shopping center, highend mall, upscale fitness clubs, art gallery areas, dayspa, Home Expo, and any place that sell high end TVs in the area and plaster the wind shields. Return to the highend audio/video stores every day. Talk to the manager at the high end audio video places, see if they want to work with you. Do you have a web site? GET ONE! Not a Geocities type one, but your own domain. For me, as a last resort I'd talk to builders. They don't pay well at all, and you will likely have to lower your standards to make any reasonable margin. But be carefull, working for builders can be a trap that is hard to get out of. Keep the retail jobs a priority. Remember the buyers will likely know that you built the cabinets and will call you for more work. Don't let one day go by without going some where to find customers.
Diversify. Make small quick pieces and sell them at craft and art shows, make holiday decorations, install cabinets, refinish furniture, paint houses, lay tile.
Finally get a day job. Home Depot, a cabinetry shop, a retail cabinetry store, a lumber yard.
Good luck,
Mike
Hey Molten,
Let me first say do not get discouraged. I can relate to your delima and have been there before. I would agree with the previous post GET A WEBSITE. More then %75 percent of my work comes from my website and it is so inexpensive. I will say that it takes a really good site that looks professional, not one of these free ones that are infested with popup and slow loads. I lucked out and my brother designs websites as a side business to his computer programming. Getting your site made is only half the battle though. Take the time to learn about search engine placement that is also very important.
Keep your chin up buddy it will work out if you want it bad enough and work at it hard enough.
Robby
Robby,
Please elaborate on your website experience. Who did you go through? How much expertise does it take? How much does it cost? How do you get the ball rolling?
By the way please post a link to your site.
Thanks in advance
Cheers
Kyle
PS Sorry for the hijack.
Kyle,
I first attempted to make my site myself but it always had a homemade/no experience feel to it. My first piece of advice would be to have it at least looked at by a professional. I know us woodworkers like to do things ourselves, but this is one place that most of us need help. I was fortunate that my younger brother writes websites for a side business to his computer programming duties. He and I spent at least a month on the design aspect and it took him another few days to write all of the code. He charged me $300 for the site and I now maintain it using a program from Macromedia called Dream Weaver. It makes updating a changing the site considerably easier. My web address by the way is http://www.rpwoodworks.com
A couple of other things ii have found helpful...
Update the site and make changes frequently. There is a saying that websites get "stale" and I have to agree. I make sure my site does not go more then one month without some sort of update or change. Let me clarify though that these changes are small and do not change the overall appearance of the site. Just change some text and frequently add new pictures especially to your home page.
Keep the site simple. Lots of web site designers get way to carried away. The site should be clean, easy to use, and navigate. As cool as Flash is stay away.
Hope this helps
Robby Phelps RP Custom Woodworks
Nice site! And I concur - nothing says "amateur" quite like a homemade website. That was probably the best $300 you ever spent - you had good advice. A bad website is not a good marketing tool. Flash, in less-than-expert hands, will keep the customers away in hordes. Before going over to the dark side and taking on a respectable day job I worked for about 20 years as a freelance writer. it was incredibly frustrating at times, but one piece of advice that used to keep me going was that you have to think of yourself as a salesperson, and a good salesperson expects to make seven sales for every 100 pitches - the trick is to make those seven sales pay for the 93 duds. A book you might check out is Secrets of a Freelance Writer, by Robert Bly (NOT "Iron John" Robert Bly - different critter altogether). Despite the rather hokey title, and the focus on writing, this is one of the best self-marketing texts I've ever read (and reread). You can probably get it from your local library. Check it out, and if it's helpful enough, buy your own copy. It's filled with really helpful stuff about promoting yourself, getting paid on time, dealing with deadbeat clients, tax tips, and other useful info.
"All of life's big problems include the words "indictment" or "inoperable." Everything else is small stuff." Alton Brown
http://costofwar.com/
checked out your website- AWESOME stuff!What did that last line mean? AS COOL AS FLASH...?Sorry, MOLTEN, I'm sure your business AND woodworking experience outweigh my own, so I've nothing to add, except that I can admire your 'taking the plunge',and Good Luck!
Hi Pete,
Thanks for the compliments and encouraging words.
To answer your question Flash is a type of internet coding developed by Macromedia (I think) that is really... well... "flashy" You may have seen these type of sites before. They seem more like a movie with moving text, pictures, and sound. Although they look cool many find them distracting and irritating.
Hope that answers your question
Robby Phelps RP Custom Woodworks
Thanks, Robby,Actually I did get a clue from, I think, Forrest Girl, shortly after I posted my query. I sent you an e-mail too. Did you get it? umonbn@yahoo. Thanks again, Pete, Miami, FL.
Hi Pete,
Got your email and sent one back to you. Let me know if it didn't make it
Robby Phelps RP Custom Woodworks
Hi again, Robby,Yes I did get your very helpful e-mail! Thanks for all the info. I will be checking out those books and sites ASAP. As for the Padouk/Maple chair, it IS a beautiful piece, but my wife thinks I'm nuts.
I haven't seen anything mentioned here but have anu of you heard of S.C.O.R.E.? It an organization of retired executives who donate their time and info to people who have businesses and want to learn more/rescue the business from failing. They have phone directory listings in most larger communities.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
"Let me first say do not get discouraged. I can relate to your delima and have been there before. I would agree with the previous post GET A WEBSITE. ..."
Ditto on the website! It's dirt cheap these days, even for sites where no advertising pop-ups appear. Check out my site at http://www.bbarnold.com and then click on the icon under the navigation bar to learn more. It cost less than $120 for me to get my own domain name and two years of hosting service. I have total control of content and do all of my own coding for the site.
Bill Arnold - Custom Woodcrafting Click Here if you're interested in a good,inexpensive website host.
Food for Thought: The Ark was built by amateurs; the Titanic by professionals.
A nice website does help. So just a couple comments:You misspell "bead" as "bed" in your coffee table description.I would expect your end table burls to be matched. You might mention that.But your work looks nice.
"... You misspell "bead" as "bed" in your coffee table description. I would expect your end table burls to be matched. You might mention that. ..."
George,
Thanks for catching the misspelled word.
The first sentence of the third paragraph on the end table page states that the tops are matching.
Regards,
Bill Arnold - Custom Woodcrafting Click Here if you're interested in a good,inexpensive website host.
Food for Thought: The Ark was built by amateurs; the Titanic by professionals.
There is a good book called "The Woodworkers Marketing Guide" written by a fella Edic. Well worth a read.
A year ago I started my own carpentry business. Not strictly woodworking but the lines get blurred a lot for me.
When I started I had virtually nothing lined up. I spent the first 2 to 3 weeks meeting people and asking for work. Got enough dribbling in to live.
For the entire year and continuing now, I kept meeting people, kept keeping in touch with those I had already contacted. With the areas top architect, I called in on the way past one day just to say hello. The guy was pretty tickled as he said nobody ever did that. I call every so often to do the same. My name keeps going across their radar.
My suppliers see me often. Even if I dont need anything I will drop by and ask how the holiday went etc. I get a ton of work from them. The contact with key people never stops, nor can it. No contact, no remember..........dead business.
I read a funny article a few years ago about a guy in start up. He wanted to do custom furniture. Struggled horribly. Kept getting asked about repair work. Didnt want that stuff so ignored it..........till the light went on. Sought out repair work ( on chairs I believe ), went to see chair retailers or somesuch and asked who fixed broken chairs for them.........nobody. Hmmmmm, guess who got the work?
After doing this for a while and living, he got asked the "Do you do....?" questions when someone picked up a chair. Then he started to do more of what he wanted.
Everything, 100% of it, depends on how you look at it.
DW
I'm not sure if my experiences will mirror yours, but when I had a trim carpentry business, this was an awful time of year. From Christmas until April, I worried and worried. I think folks spent their money on Christmas, and didn't fully loosen up until tax time. Tighten your belt, make sure you can pay your taxes, and good luck.
Andy
Andy Engel
Senior editor, Fine Woodworking magazine
Other people can talk about how to expand the destiny of mankind. I just want to talk about how to fix a motorcycle. I think that what I have to say has more lasting value. --Robert M. Pirsig
I find myself in the same situation every year. Your business isn't failing, don't discourage yourself. You are bound to be slow at some point every year and these feelings will return every time. Ignore them and move on!
I would advise you to continue your marketing practises, they sound good. Go directly to architects ( do not bother with interior designers, they live in their own little world) and developers. Show them your work and talk to them about built-ins, closet systems and stairs. They will not give you cabinet jobs because they need to show that fancy label to their customers (regardless of quality).
Also, for the time being, steer away from high end McMansions. One, some of them have spent all their money on purchasing the house that they can't furnish it ( I have seen this many times) and second, they need to see the high end label that you don't have YET. ( this is where interior designers have ruined things for us ).
Last, talk to your neighbors, do some projects half priced, they will pass on your name without disclosing how much they paid. Good luck molten, remember not all great woodworkers are great businessmen, ask your banker for advise as well!
As a semi-retired builder, I can lament that some of my best trim contractors have gone to work with architects. That may be a market you may want to farm if you haven't yet. Good luck!
PS: as for people who live in "McMansions", my experience is that most of their money is tied up in debt.
This is normally a very, very slow time of year for custom furnituremaking. The good thing about this time a year is that it comes on the heels of what should have been your busiest time of year - late summer through the first/middle of December.
If your profit margin is too thin you are not going to make it. Take a part-time job, do what you have to do. But don't under any circumstances develop the reputation of being the bargain provider. For the kind of projects you mentioned you have been building there is a lot of turnover in the low cost providers in decent sized cities. In other words, the low-cost providers don't usually make it. They work themselves out of business.
There are a lot of guys building wall-to-wall plywood projects and entertainment centers. It didn't take me long to realize that I didn't like that kind of work, mainly because of the delivery and installation hassles not to mention the thin profit margins because of the competition.
Now, I just do standalone furniture (emphasis on chairs now), windows, doors and entryways. I don't install the doors, windows, or entryways. They are delivered to the job site for the trim carpenters to install.
The doors and stuff really helped me make it in the first few years. Now I just take on really cream-puff high profit margin work - usually restoration projects. New construction margins are usually too tight.
Nothing, and I mean nothing, beats the profit margin on chairs.
Edited 1/18/2005 12:57 pm ET by cstan
You also need to advertise heavily to the interior design crowd.
Years and years ago I was trying to kick start a small woodworking business, so I decided to run an ad in several local papers. The ad stated I would fix or reglue any broken chair for five dollars!! Within two weeks I had 60-70 chairs stacked up in every spot in the shop. It took me 6 months to finish them all (obviously I lost money) but it sure spread my name around and gave access to lots of work. Every time I got down about not having any "real work" I would glue two or three chairs. Not sure this experience helps but sometimes just staying busy and meeting new people will help generate jobs.
Good luck and hang in there.
Dennis
I'm in Warren, MI and feel the pinch this time of year in regards to the home retail end of the trade. You have received some great advice, not much I can add. The commercial and office arena is booming in this area. Look for jobs building cabinets for stores and offices. A couple of local large shops folded in the last year and someone has to pickup the slack.
I did office buildouts for a few years and was amased at the number of clients that requested kitchenetts. Picked up a lot of extra work just building the cabinets and counters. Diversify and go with the flow. Try some lower end work, it still pays the bills.
DJK
molten,
Your situation is very normal, and par for the course. It easy easy to think that your early influx of jobs will continue indefinitely. It never works that way, especially as you first start out. Even as you start getting busier there will always be lulls (bad luck, slow economy, whatever.) Regardless, nine months is too soon to say that you are failing.
The stories of people getting busy immediately through word of mouth seem a little exaggerated to me. Your customers may be happy with you, but that does not mean that their friends are in the market for your services.
It is always good to have a safety net, i.e. a buddy in the business that can set you up with some work in tight situations. I have a buddy that that will take me on to frame or trim houses if things get really dry.
There have been some good marketing suggestions. Try them. Some will work for you, some won't. Continue with the ones that are effective.
Good luck.
Cheers
Kyle
Molten,
Do quality work, dress neatly, remove or, cover your shoes. Use clean drop cloths. (Never plastic) Lose money for the first year.
Pay finder's fees to get jobs, advertise, get a web site.
Take photos of all your (Best) work. Call back any previous patrons occasionally, to ask if they are satisfied and if so, maybe recommend you to friends.
Word of mouth is the best advertising, but so are classifieds and supermarket bulletin boards and calendars, as well as business cards imprinted on fine veneer samples. Make a file of E mail addresses and keep some live English speaking person around to answer the phone
No answering service machines!
Steinmetz. Good luck! One other thing, Doctors and Lawyers are notorious non-payers.
I am not in the business but I have my long term sights set in that direction. So I look at markets and products and pricing levels and calculate the whole deal. One thing I have been contemplating is local access cable TV. You can get a show on local access for anything. So figure out a schtick ( do the show in a thong....or something) and do a woodworking show from your shop to the locals. If you have half a personality you can get something rolling. I look awefull in a thong so I am looking at other forms of schtick. ( I know that is spelled wrong but...you get the idea)
Wicked Decent Woodworks
Rochester NH
" If the women dont find you handsome, they should at least find you handy........yessa!"
I'm a commercial banker and admire your decision to go into business for yourself in the first place. I have heard two important things in this thread. First, there is a seasonality to your work. This is a good time to gain new skills, rework your business plan and network, network and do it some more. Join a BNI group in your community. Look for subcontract work. Talk to the millwork companies about possible work.It's easy to get discouraged. Sleepless nights are part of the drill for the first few years. Hang in there.
Brian, I think you hit the wrong guy with that post. While i am self employed, I am not in the wood working business...not yet anyway. I am a sales rep and an inventor of ergonomic and stress relieveing hand tools. There is no seasonality to my work now..........not like some other professions. I do still get slepless nights though even after 15 years of self employmentWicked Decent Woodworks
Rochester NH
" If the women dont find you handsome, they should at least find you handy........yessa!"
Sorry. I haven't been here in ages and need to pay atention to the forum format.
Just faxed a bid for almost $19K worth of work to an architect firm. Now I'm biting my nails waiting for a reply.Not a HUGE job, but one that could get me in the door at a busy firm. I hope to work exclusively for architects and designers. Working for the homeowner is nooooo fun.molten
What's your raw material cost on the job?
Is this the work you originally intended to do when you started out? Please be careful taking on work put out for bid. The big boys will eat you alive on this stuff. I have a feeling this is not a commission for a piece of standalone furniture (the best stuff for a sole craftsman to do, IMO). Again, be careful and know who your competition is and understand the implications of getting into the kind of work you apparently are about to get into.
Edited 2/8/2005 3:15 pm ET by cstan
Thanks for the well worded advice and sorry for the late reply.
It's not a huge job, and not from a really big architect firm. It's a reception desk and some simple utility cabinets for a local real estate office.
My bid was sent last week and the total amount including materials, labor and installation was $19K. Of that, $8K was material. (Less if you deduct my standard material mark-up). 8K may sound high, but I counted the doors and raised panel fronts as material since I will purchase those. Plus, I'll use all Melamine for the interiors which costs a few $'s more but saves a bunch of labor.
Since the reception desk is basically free standing, and the utility cabinets are simple to install, the installation should be easy to do in one day.
Molten
Congratulations! I hope you're feeling a lot more confident. I know, just giving out bids alone makes me feel better about my choise to enter this rat-race!
Good luck and keep your head up!
Thanks!
I sent the bid last week, and I called today as a follow up and the boss said, "Thanks for the prompt response, the price was within our budget. I need to review this with our trim carpenter to see if he wants to bid the installation. You'll hear from us either tomorrow or Monday."Sounds encouraging...Molten
Hey Molten,
Super news! Glad to hear it. We all go through tough times and it is always great to hear someone pulling out of it. Good job and keep us posted.
Robby Phelps RP Custom Woodworks
Thanks for the words of encouragement.Molten
molten,
As others have indicated, here in Michigan it seems to die until after tax season for custom work. Take this time to be productive in the shop that you do not usually take time to do like make that jig that you never took time for or tune up the tablesaw or do something for the shop that will inspire you every time you walk into the shop.
Also you might try testing the web market on custommade.com. I always wanted to just make something to try selling on my website or ebay or custommade.com but just can't seem to find the time.
The point is every year until you are well established you are likely to find this time of year slower than you would like. Take advantage of it. You cannot be out pounding on doors during the entire slow season.
Good luck
Garry
Someone posted.. Don't get too discouraged yet, its still your first year. It often takes 2-3 years to start seeing any profit. May even take longer.
I wish you and your family the best.. Going on your own takes something special so hang in there. Keep going out and be a pest... May get a job just to keep you from being a pest.. Alot of 'good' salesmen I know are REAL pests but they make money!
Just a thought....
Molten,
Here are a few ideas.
Keep the website simple, update often. This works everytime for small businesses.
Consider the "renovating an old home" market. These potential customers understand and respect quality. Some potential products are:
Custom entry doors and screen doors. These have high visual impact for a relatively low cost. Partner with someone to do the installs if necessary.
Small, standalone furniture that can hide a computer workstation in the dining room of old houses. People with old houses hate exposed computers. Much of the furniture commecially available is too big / massive.
Finally, build stuff on spec. If you're not making sawdust - you're not making money. This principle applies to every manufacturing business.
Good luck and please keep us posted on your success!
Thanks to all that responded with the encouragement and great marketing ideas. I'm going to put a few of these ideas into effect immediately. First and foremost will be a website. I have a few computer nerds I knew at my last job that owe me a few favors.Thanks again,
Molten
Molten,
Did you get my PM? If not, please send me a note to: [email protected]
Regards,
Bill Arnold - Custom Woodcrafting
Click Here if you're interested in a good,inexpensive website host.
Food for Thought: The Ark was built by amateurs; the Titanic by professionals.
Yes I did, thanks. I'll let you know if I have any questions.Molten
Molten
Your business seems to be evolving into a "generalist" direction. No problem with that except when things get slow. I suggest searching for a niche during these slow spots. The Internet provides opportunities to market to a very narrow field of interest while still having a huge pool of potential buyers.
I'll give you just two examples of niches that I consider "hot".
#1. Entertainment centers and home theaters are very big in custom woodworking. Everyone has a unique combination of TV, VCR, DVD, speakers, and room decor. They associate these things with luxury and are often willing to spend ridiculous amounts of money to treat themselves to the optimum experience. On the extreme end, some spend mega$ on worthless crap like $485 for a wood knob (see http://www.randi.org/jr/123104my.html ) or $230 "Shakti Stones" that are "electromagnetic stabilizers" (http://www.shakti-innovations.com).
I don't recommend you try to scam these folks, just give them an honestly built and tastefully designed cabinet that works for them and maybe save them money by steering them away from pseudoscientific nonsense.
Specializing in home theatres will put you in competition with lots of others but the market is huge.
#2. Coffins. This is the niche on my website that gets the most traffic with the least competition. I wish more woodworkers would get over their hang-ups about making caskets. We should all make at least one. Store it in the attic if you have to. I guarantee it will either get sold or put to very good use some day.
I tell ya..this casket thing is going to work. Specifically caskets for.......PETS!! they wont donate a dime for great grandma but , oh ma' Lord.......Poor Lil Fido......Wicked Decent Woodworks
Rochester NH
" If the women dont find you handsome, they should at least find you handy........yessa!"
I found in my area (Chicago) that coffin manufacturers have some kind of deal with funeral homes to disallow the use of coffins not purchased through them, some kind of regulatory commission. They sight safety and health issues as the motive, but we know better! Check with your local funeral home for details. As for pets, it's big business! Bigger than custom doll houses used to be.
Ted,
That was halairious!! I've seen a little of that crap on some of my jobs. Love it.
Mikeplease excuse my spelling.
I bet you don't get many warranty calls, do you do the upholstery work on your coffins ?, how did you get started with this niche ?
Robert
RobertI guess I did not make my point clearly. I am not in the coffin business myself. I do some cabinetmaking and I run CustomMade.com. I was speaking from my experience on CustomMade.com to suggest that there is a potential for more small shops to get into the casket business. I have made a few coffins and there is not as much to know as you might think. Upholstery is too fancy a term to use for what is needed in a primitive style casket. I know that the "warranty calls" comment was in jest but don't assume that there is no such thing. Many factory made caskets have particle board bottoms glued and stapled to the lower edges of the box. I met a funeral director who had the experience of the casket bottom falling out while the pall bearers were carrying the casket.
Hi Ted,
Good to see you on the forums. It can get pretty hostile though which I don't understand. I guess us woodworkers are a pretty arrogant bunch at times although most folks here are really nice and helpful.
That is amazing about the particle board bottom on that casket. I cant imagine what the funeral procession was like after the body fell out. WOW what an experience.
Wanted to also say keep up the good work with custommade.com. I just picked up a $9000.00 commission from the site for a law firm in Missouri. Your site has done wonders for my business. I am sure you have noticed though that custommade.com has come up on the forums quite a bit.
Take care and again thanks
Robby Phelps RP Custom Woodworks
I am Mumda but I used to be molten & jimmyk.
It's over, I have thrown in the towel. I am returning to my old job Monday morning. Fortunately, that job did not end up relocating out of state (yet) like they had planned almost 3 years ago and they took me back with open arms.
The economy sucks here (Michigan), clients suck and apparently my business sucked!!!
The only thing I gained from working for myself was an ulcer (no kidding), empty pension and 401k and about $24K in credit debt.
I plan to answer any questions from those of you that want to learn from my failure. Perhaps my loss will save others some grief.
Know this if you're planning on starting your own biz: Cash is king. Overhead will eat you alive and 90% of the customers you encounter are concerned about $$ first, schedule second and quality last.
Mumda,
Being a fellow Michigander, I concurr with your assessment of our local economy.
I recently posted a question about borrowing money in order to purchase tools...and am glad for the reinforcement not to do so, although a case can be made for using borrowed money if the new asset pays its way.
I'd like to learn from your experience, if you don't mind. What first prompted you to try to make a living from woodworking? Did you borrow start-up money? Is the sour economy the single biggest factor in your throwing in the towel?
Hope all goes well for you in your new (old) job.
Monte
I'm at the old job now and it's lunch break. Things are going great here, thanks.
I started on my own because I had a passion to do fancy woodwork for other homes. I really wanted to leave some of myself in other homes for decades. I have always appreciated good "extra" architectural woodworking and there is a true lack of that in Michigan and most of the US I think.
Anyhow, I took the plunge when I left this job in April 2004. They offered me severance pay and 2 full years of full medical and dental benefits. It seemed the perfect opportunity to start a business.
I leased a shop about 1/2 hour from my house and bought a few machines. Most stuff I already had, but I wanted a bigger capacity table saw, an edgebander and line borer.
I also invested heavily in marketing my area with direct mail, local papers, service catalogs and such. I took many area designers out to lunch or dinner and paid for all of that trying to get work from them. Most (99%) buy furniture from large catalog manufactured so I quickly learned there wasn't a market for that.
All of the equipment costs, first 6 month lease and marketing ate all of my cashed out 401K and pension...about $28K.
It was slow in the beginning, but things picked up once my name was out there. I did well in 2005...so well I had 2 helpers and another cabinet shop building simpler stuff that we'd install. The business was going well, but I was working 16 hours a day, 7 days a week. I went on vacation in summer 2005 for 10 days and lost a $18K job because of it...
In February or March 2006 Ford announced tens of thousands of Michigan lay-offs were going to happen over the next few years in Michigan. Later that same month, GM announced the same thing. From that point on, things went down hill; cancelled jobs, designers going out of business, one of my helpers moved to Arizona...you name it, it fell apart.
Work got slow and I couldn't afford the ridiculous overheads like workers comp, liability, marketing and shop rent. I moved out of the shop and into my garage trying to save money.
The work just never came back, so I gave up.
The wife and I discussed things over during a stress relieving get-away week end at Soaring Eagle just before x-mas. Our options were: 1) move somewhere else where there's work (Arizona, NC, Florida...etc.) 2) try a different business 3) Send me back to my old job. #3 made the most sense.
Now, I have a huge debt hole to climb out of, and I still have 2 builders and a lawyer owing me over $7K from past work I did.
Whew!
Thanks for sharing your experience. If I can be any encouragement, you're not the only one who has had to "start over". I had to do it myself at age 40.
It sounds like your business ended because of, well, lack of work.
Were you able to keep up the same level of marketing in the last year of your business that you did in the first six months? I'm wondering if you had to pull back on marketing, which may have in turn accelerated the loss of work.
No doubt the state of the economy in Michigan makes for a shrinking pool of potential customers for "non-necessities". I live in Grand Rapids, which is less tied to the automotive industry or the tourism industry than the rest of the state, but even so, we are certainly affected by their losses.
About eight years ago, I worked one year for a small, start-up furniture company that made children's bedroom furniture. That company failed after the owners ran out of borrowed capital and weren't able to generate enough sales to remain in business. I was the last employee that they had to let go. I saw first-hand how painful it was for them to lose their dream.
Glad to hear that things are going well for you at your "old" job. In the final analysis, I think that most people end up doing the things that we were meant to do, whatever that might be for however long it might be.
Monte
An older (87year old) cabinet maker told me that it takes several years to establish a clientel and a reputation. After that it is all repeat customers and you've picked your clients. He said the beginnings is usually slim pickings. He made reproductions for Williamsburg.
Frank
Monte, It ended not only because of lack of work, but also lack of me caring. I got tired of all bad stuff. The bad really outweighed the good. I mean, things were great when I was busy and could pick and choose the jobs I wanted, but when it gets slow and you end up doing junk work just to pay the bills, then you become a slave to your own business. To answer your question: yeah, I marketed the same, but that number of people I was marketing to has shrunk a lot. Most of the original homes I direct mailed to now have for sale signs out front. I could have improved my marketing strategy to try new things but...I just didn't have the money or personal drive left. If I would have gotten half of the jobs I've been promised over the last two years, I'd be swamped with work in a 10,000 sq/ft facility with 8 employees. Instead, it was just one disappointment after another. I also got tired of having to beg for that final check like I'm some kind of homeless bum looking for a free meal...I mean, some of these builders or homeowners literally would treat me and my help like scum...dirty people that work with our hands and should feel priviledged for working in their homes. It just got old and took the fun out of woodworking. I look forward to taking a month or two off from it and then maybe I'll get back into it for a hobby again.
Jimmyk
sorry to come here so late,
But I've been selling in the contruction field for over 16 years and I've never seen it so slow.. Normally I sell 2 to 3 machines a month but I haven't sold one since June.
Remodeling has little activety but new home construction is absolutely dead (due to overbuilding spec houses) . A lot of cabinet makers who quit and went to work building houses because there was so much more profit in it are flooding back into the cabinet trade looking for work.. Cabinet work is soft since so few new homes are being built that it puts real pressure on prices.
Some are telling me that on real high end jobs they are forced to make $5 or 6 an hour and cut every corner they know just to make that.. These are guys with their shops and equipment long paid for who simply need grocery money.
One customer told me that he almost had to beg his sister-in-law to build her custom cabinets because she was looking at the big box stores prices and had that sort of budget in miind.. He needed the work to make a mortage payment or lose his house..
Bonjour Frenchy - ca va?
It seems that work in the construction business is spotty around North America. Up here in Western Canada there is a critical shortage of journeymen in all fields and those that are left are aging very quickly!
In Calgary the main business is oil and gas and since the bust of 1981, it has been a busy ride and growth for everyone involved. The recent oil and gas boom (prices are likely to remain high for the foreseeable future :):)) has meant a building boom as this city EXPLODES with new workers arriving daily from across North America.
Almost 15,00 new homes being built annually in our city, and that number would be higher IF the trades were available. Right now it takes 1 to 1 1/2 years to get a house built - because of lack of qualified trades people. House prices have risen from 250% over the last 3 years.
My point is that I have always understood one principle - in construction you go where the work is. Companies are flying trades people in from all over Canada and abroad to meet the demand. Trades people are not worried about work - rather the burn out caused by demanding builders wanting more work and less time off. My son is a painter and he was asked if he could work another weekend for a RUSH job - he had just finished 21 straight 12 hour days. He jumped on a plane to Mexico for a week to unwind.
In summary, when work dries up in one area, my experience in construction is to move to where the work is and benefit from a high demand for skilled labor. Finish carpenters are absolutely required!! By the way this boom has been going on for almost 7 years and it will slow down when the price of oil drops! :):)
Anyone looking to keep busy should consider the Western Canada market - skilled trades are desperately needed in every sphere of the building cycle!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Bob in Calgary
questools,
That's alway the case. Work is there if you are willing to uproot your family and chase it..
Bob was talkin about the shortage of tradesfolk in Calgary, but on a Calgary radio station they was tellin us about how Iceland is suckin up tradesfolks from here. Seems if a 60 hr work-week is just too wimpy for ya, you can do 80-90hrs/wk, living expenses paid. I guess an hour or two in hot springs will just start you up!Eric
in Cowtown
Sounds many of yalls woes are unpreventable (slow downs and the like). Here are some of my experiences.
Literally at the drop of a hat I can scale my overhead back to $400 a month. And I mean instantly. As I expand the infrastructure of my business I continualy look at that number. I have only one employee and I out source as much as possible. Soon I will be outsourcing all my sheet goods machining to a CNC shop. I already outsourced laminating, edgebanding and doors. And those decesions have IMPROVED the quality of my work. I cannot make doors as well as the companies I use. Their products are flawless, mine are not. But really the importaint benifit is I do not need more manpower when we get buisy; all we do is glue up boxes, spray, install hardware (all the holes are predrilled at the CNC shop) and deliver the cabinets. If there is no work I am not supporting an 8 man shop.
Mumda spoke of his attempts to wine and dine designers and the like. Keep in mind they meet "cabinet makers" all the time. And all of them are "better than the others". But a successfull GC or designer has suffered through many inadequit shops and once they find reliable subs they are not very willing to change. For good reason. So you have to be flexable. Dont push for getting whole jobs, tell them you are willing to take the smaller difficult jobs that their other subs don't like to do. Or the jobs with deadlines that are too tight for their usual subs. Then delive ON TIME and ON BUDGET. Sounds easy huh..... well if you think that then I doubt you have ran a cabinet shop. That is the hardest part, and because of our reputation for delaying a job that is what is most importaint to the customers.
When it comes to meeting with these clients (GCs and designers) remember what I said about them meeting cabinet makers every day..... SO the cold call is allmost useless. Unless they happen to be in a bind at that very moment they are unlikely to give you a second thought. However I have had better response by meeting them at trade shows and conventions. There are also "back doors" into their role-a-dex. Try to contact realestate and comercial leasing/development agents. They don't typically pick the contractors... but dropping their names as a reference is importaint. Ask them if they know any designers that might be interested in your services. And make sure your services are properly presented and reflect a real need. After every encounter look for problems in your product and presentation. Try to remember what points they were interested in and emphasize them the next time. In the residentail market realestate agents and very good lead generators. But be prepaired to help them out. They might ask for a favor to do some simple repair work or modify a cabinet for a new appliance. This work is never very profitable but in my experience if you reinforce to them (after you complete the job) that you are looking for bigger jobs they will deliver.
To find the right kind of agent, GC or designer drive the nice neighborhoods and look for the listing agents signs. You will usually find that one or two agents will dominate an area, those are the ones you want to deal with.
Right now my business is basicly shut down. I let my helper go and I am doing little jobs here and there to pay the overhead ($400 a month) which takes very little effort. I knew that this would be a slow month so I have spent the time working on my business. New website, business plan, looking for a book keeper/scheduler, implementing new software. I switched to a new smaller bank that will be more flexable to my needs. I am also doing some work on the shop that has been put off all year. When I am ready I will crank it up again and be stronger than before. This would not be possible if I had an 8,000 sqft shop and 6 shop hands. But then I am also not grossing the $500,000+ a year that those shops do. However I am probably taking home at least 80% of what they are and have no where near the exposure. One month an owner could earn $40,000 and the next they might be in the hole $20,000 after paying workers comp premiums and other overhead. That is a tough life.
Pardon my spelling,
Mike
Make sure that your next project is beyond your skill and requires tools you don't have. You won't regret it.
This closely reflects my experience in a custom furniture business. I'm goig it slow with lots of advanced planning. A small business class and lots of networking and counseling has literally saved my butt from some of the grief experienced by others that have posted in the string. Maybe I'm too conservative in my approach, but I'm still hanging in there inspite of some of my technical inadequacies. I'd be interested in hearing from other furniture crafters regarding business experiences, state of the environment, etc. S&S
jimmyk,
talk to general contractors. they always need reliable cabinetmakers - if you can provide install and finish, all the better. if you are a one man shop, look for generals who build new homes, and bringing the product in on time is what will keep you in work.
best luck,
a retired gc who used one cabinet shop for 25 years
fogbeltchas,
The trouble is that new home starts are down dramatically , 47% this year to last year here in Minnesota.. not only are cabinet shops in trouble, but GC's are in trouble. Earlier this year there were 37,000 unsold spec homes in the seven country area. add to that unsold existing homes and there is a real home surplus.
Now the good news,
15 year mortage rates are down at 4 1/2 % which is stirring up the market. As of december 31st we were down to around 10,000 unsold spec houses..
Every year a little over 40,000 new residents move into the 7 county area. Assume that there are 4 persons per new huzse sold and you can see that we will have burned thru that surplus by the fall of 2007
That is when GC's and cabinet shops etc. can expect to go back to work.. Untill then better tighten your belts boys..
I see. Maybe I'm just lucky - never been out of work.
Chas
fgbeltchas,
well established firms can usually get work due to their reputation and clients who wait for the lean times to have work done..
Hi All,
I run a small woodworking business in Vancouver Canada, sounds like it is tough times in Michigan. I have not tried any type of marketing in years but never found any that worked other than the cold call and this only worked when the customer was dissatisfied with their current shop. Every day I worry that my regular customers are going to be unhappy with something that is out of my controll and go to the last cold call that they got.
I was about to launch into a rant about what running a business has done to my life, but suffice it to ay I often think of what it would be like to work for the man again, given the booming economy in the area and my experience in woodworking I could make stupid demands for money and get it.
I didn't start off trying to start a business, I got laid off and as a temporary way to make money started installing for millwork companys on a contract baisis. It is my experience that cabinet shops were the worst at paying their bills and was this that made me open a shop. We always pay our bills on time by using credit if we have to.
My wife now runs the business, she got laid off and fell into it too, as a result both of our incomes are from the enterprise which limits our ability to quit and get a life. So everyday we go to work, make the same or less than our inexperienced employees and the only difference is we would be the last to get laid off.
I don't know if I would do it different if I could, I do enjoy working with my wife, at least we know how hard we both try and from what I have seen from other couples that is not always the case. To say it is interesting is an understatment, I could get used to a lot less challange in my life but the grass is always greener isn't it. Most of our customers are nice but we learned to keep at arms length so seldom are they friends. Most of the friends we do have work for the man so when the conversation goes to their job and how they hate it we just smile and keep our mouths shut and as cabinetmakers we all know how dangerious it is to tell anyone what you do for a living.
I swear the only thing that keeps me going is my fear of having to live under a bridge. All you folks out there that were born rich count your blessings.
Now I'm depressed, Grey Glove
I've never owned a business but have several friends who do. Based on my observations of them almost anyone who thinks that by owning a business they "will be their own boss" are sadly mistaken. Every customer is a boss. The exception is the rare person who has such an established reputation and lack of competition that they can do what they want. But that's a situation which generally doesn't last forever.
Good idea fog, but they're not building around these parts!Besides, I've got three builders that already owe me money. Why add more to the list?
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