I have been learning to use Autodesk Quick Cad Ver. 8 on my own to do basic 2D drawings. For now, the capabilities of this program are adequate. Later, I would like to be able to expand and learn a 3D program. PROBLEM!! Autodesk no longer makes Quick CAD. My question is; how, if at all, does this program compare to other Autodesk product such as AutoCad? Am I wasting my time with the program if what I have learned won’t translate down the line? I would like to stay with the Autodesk stuff as I’ve been told it’s the industry standard.
Thanks in advance for any insight.
-Paul
Replies
I have both Autocad LT and Quickcad on my computer. Autocad does have many more features, but also just as many new steps. I like the ease of Quickcad for concept work and like the name implies "quick cad drawings" 95% of my drawings are printed directly to my desk top printer. I will however import drawings into Autocad if I need to print to the plotter. If you can load both, I would. the learning curve with quickcad is measured in hours as opposed too weeks (maybe months) you will be functional with quickcad in a few days, as you get up to speed with Autocad, regardless the principles are the same. hope this helps
Harold
Thanks Harold.
At some point I will need to learn AutoCad for my professional development. Quick Cad is what I have access to now. It is good to know that they compliment one another.
I assume AutoCad gives you nearly limitless possibilities as a drawing tool. Are some of the commands/tools similar from program to program? Or is it like learning all over again once I make the jump?
Thanks again,
-Paul
I would describe Quickcad as a drawing program with many cad features. As for my needs this is ideal, I move from a sketch on my notebook, to a detailed diagram or plan quickly. Autocad (LT in my case) is a drafting (CAD) program, although the principles are the same and some of commands, Autocad has countless options at virtually each step. A couple night courses would be great, starting or layout of your drawing, basic commands and plotting etc. . . from there you can add.
For me, it is like this if the drawings are for my use it's Quickcad, if they will be used by others, Autocad.
I use Quickcad like a calculator, a calculator that prints drawings.
thanks
Harold
I really appreciate your insight. Thanks Harold.
-Paul
I am an architect as well as a hobbyist woodworker. I have been using Autocad for over 20 years, and have trained people in its use.
It is the industry standard for architects and engineers, and of course can be used to draw anything. It is a very powerful program out of the box and can be enhanced to do automate many things. It is expensive for the sole purpose of creating drawing files of cabinets.
It will time consuming to learn to use its 3-D functionality after you have learned 2-D.
If money and time is not a issue, it is the way to go. If you decide it is worth it, most autodesk resellers also have training programs that are worth taking.
Good luck.
ekgolf,
I've been learning QuickCad on my own with no prior CAD experience. I seem to learn something new every time I use it. When I make the jump to AutoCad, is it something that can be learned on my own or should I seek instruction. Difficult question, I know. How did you gain experience initially?
Thanks for the help,
-Paul
Unc,
I learned the basics from instructors and learned diferent ways to do the same thing so that I could decide for myself which method was the most efficient for me.
As an old DOS guy, I at first like using the keyboard in one hand and the mouse with the other. Now with the GUI, i use menus and toolbars just as much as the keyboard. Newer versions of Autocad are becoming more 3-D oriented.
I was able to hone my skills and knowledge at home as well which was a great benefit. I even leared how to customize and write code to further enhance autocad functionality.
Feel free to respond with any questions.
ekgolf,
I think I will look into a night course for AutoCad. What you said about getting ideas about different ways to do things and deciding which fits your style makes sense to me. Learning on my own presents no opportunity for that.
From one version of the program to the next (newer) how much in the program actually changes. If I get the current version of Autocad in a couple of years will I need to upgrade?
Which version do you think would be best out of the gate?
Thanks a lot for your insight,
-Paul
Unc,
Autodesk lately, has released "new" versions almost every year for the past 4 years.
They try to respond to their user generated wish lists and to third party developers.
You wouldn't necesarily need to upgrade evey year to keep up with Joneses.
I would recommend starting out with a more current version such as Autocad 2005 or Architectural Desktop. Desktop has many 3-D functions that may be more useful to you, once you develope the neccesary skills. Autodesk products have tons of web related resourses and code, many of which are free to download.
I suggest going to the Autodesk website and find more information and local resellers in your area.
See ya.
thanks
I have been using autosketch. The more I use it the better I like it. For 2D stuff it works great. It was the first CAD program I ever used and the learning curve was a little high but well worth it. I will never design anything els with a pencil.
Walt,
No idea why it took me so long to start drawing on the computer. Old dog new tricks, I guess.
thanks,
-Paul
Download Sketchup. It's free , easy to learn and use, 3D software for conceptual design. It can go far beyond that though. I do exacting concept work on the professional version and export to Autocad for drawing production. You can watch instructional videos at the website to get started.
Download: http://www.sketchup.com/
Videos: http://www.sketchup.com/?sid=35
I learned Autocad on ver. 2.17c back in 1986 and have used it professionally as a designer almost every day for the last twenty years. I've done 3D work in both it and Microstation but it has always been more difficult than I thought it should be. Without significant training and effort most CAD programs are tough for the casual user.
I started using Sketchup about a year ago. No outside training, just watched the videos in sequence and played with the software. Within a week I was productive and have turned out some pretty nice work if I do say so myself. I'm sure my previous experience helped some but my nephew at 13 yrs old had his house modeled after the 2nd day he started playing with it.
What I really like about Sketchup is the way I can work in 3D naturally, create my parts and then fit them up. You are rewarded at the end of the process with a virtual dry fit-up of your parts. You can then dimension everything for cutting. It doesn't automatically produce a cutlist or anything though like some of the pro-cabinet softwares do (or so I hear).
It's very handy for any type of design task. I have my whole yard lanscaping done in 3D (well...almost done). There are LOTS of components libraries (pre-drawn models, to scale, of all kinds of things) There is even a woodworking toolshop for anyone that wants to try out different layouts for a shop.
I've only recently begun to take my woodworking more seriously. I've dabbled for years. I can definitely say that almost any project I do will 1st be modeled in Sketchup.
I've included a few attachments, some personal and professional work, and the woodworking tools so you can see what it can do.
Good luck
Stoneaxe,
Wow! I had no idea something like this was out there. I can see definite advantages to adding this tool. Seems like it would be a useful and efficient way to present a concept to the client.
Thanks for the link,
-Paul
Hello Pablo,
It is great for concept work but you can also develop fully dimensioned production drawings. It's great for working out design ideas and finding problems ahead of time. If you decide you don't like how something looks you can push/pull, stretch, scale,and rotate until you find the right look. Then detail the joints, print full size templates if necessary.
Play with the free version for awhile and you'll see what I mean. I know it has some limitations but you'll get a feel for it and will probably want the pro eventually.
Regards,
Stoneaxe
Metod,
I couldn't agree with you more, and I appreciate your response.
I try to learn to do the same things differently in woodworking as well as in my profession.
To solve problems is something I enjoy the most in either endeavor.
Best regards
Paul, For 2d furniture design I have been using somewhat simplistc but adequate software called DeltaCad. I am in the finishing stages of website development in order to showcase and take orders for my custom designs. I have upgraded to AutoCad in order to incorporate line-design pictures in addition to photos of finished works. I need that 3d capability to compete out there. I went AutoCad because it is the benchmark and will provide forward redundancy.
Cheers.........Chris
Hello Chris,
What do you mean by line-design pictures? Autocad is the standard but I think it is overkill for most woodwork. I use it every day proffesionally but don't do any of my woodworking designs in it anymore. Have you looked at Sketchup? Much less expensive than Autocad, easier to learn and use, a better choice for most I believe.
Regards
Chris,
Is this what you mean by line-design? Look at the chairpencil file. Using Sketchup I can choose the type of output. The pencil sketch is simply changing the settings in the rendering dialog. The other file (chairrender) is the model rendered with textures and shadows turned on. The last is a picture of the chair that was built.
Regards,
Hya Stoneaxe,..Appreciate your point of view. Like your design by the way...some Frank Lloyd Wright in there. Sure Autocad is probably way too complex for what most would need for furniture but it suits me - I will also use parts of it for boat construction drawings. So it is a case of amortising its cost over several uses for me.
Like the sound of Sketchup..will have a closer look at it as I am laid up with a crushed toe for a few weeks..Wear safety boots in the workshop!!!!!
Cheers.......Chris
Hi Chris,
The world of CAD is going 3D all over. I've made a career out of knowing Autocad fairly well and it is definitely the standard. If you can justify the cost it is well worth knowing. But even Autocads days are numbered. Autodesk is more closely focusing on Inventor, Revit, Building Mechanical and others with built-in 3D and intelligent objects. Sketchup allows for a very low cost (free for the non-commercial version) entry into the world of 3D. I still use Autocad by exporting my models to a dwg file and then doing some of the dimensioning and shop drawing production. Sketchup has limitations on it's dimensioning capabilities and while you can do some, shop drawing production is not really included.
I foresee a day in the not to distant future though that a program similar to Sketchup (maybe Sketchup itself) where you will do a model. The program will then dimension, prepare shop drawings (or templates), prepare a quantity take off and cut list, and order coffee.
I can't take credit for the chair design. It originally was in a Lowe's circular. I adjusted some things and used nicer wood but basically still the same. I'm about to start a project for a design similar to a Morris chair and a matching footstool but perhaps making the sides similar to this one. I'll do the design in Sketchup and post the results here and elsewhere in the forums.
Have fun playing with Sketchup, it's just another tool, but a pretty slick one.
I would agree with Stoneaxe that Acad is the industry standard, but only for 2-d drawings. The solid modeling feature of Autocad is very cumbersome and very tedious to use. Most of the better 3-d programs are parametric, which allows you to resize a solid model very easily, simply by editing the dimensions. They also use drawing planes to create the geometry on while Autocad relys on the extremely cumbersome Universal Coordinate System (UCS) to create the geometry used to extrude the solid model. I use Autocad 2006 at my workplace to create 3-d piping drawings, and I hate it. It is awkward to use, time consuming, and very difficult to edit the model once it has been created.
If one is really serious about 3-d modeling, I would suggest using one of the parametric programs such as Inventor or Solid Works. I have used both with good success.
Like the design and chair. I was hoping as I picked up Sketchup that I could do joinery details in it; I notice you did not, particularly the M&T through the arms.
I've asked here before if anyone knew how to do this, even saw someone who did dovetails, but I've gotten no information on how to do it. Would make Sketchup MUCh more useful for me... I've seen references to doing dry-fits with the components. How does one do that?My goal is for my work to outlast me. Expect my joinery to get simpler as time goes by.
Hello John,
Very easy to do. I just did this box joint in about 3 minutes. It takes some practice like anything else
Create a model of the lumber you will be cutting from, make it into a group (edit, make group) and then copy it. Rotate the copy and explode (edit, group, explode) it. Then simply draw the lines for the joinery and push/pull the faces to create the tails . Make a group out of the whole board once the tails are done. Move the 1st (grouped ) board in line with how it will be when built (as if one board was inside the other) and explode the group. With all the pieces of the group still selected intersect with model (edit, intersect with model). That will put matching lines and faces on the ungrouped board exactly in line with the originals on the grouped board. You can then push/pull to get the matching tails. You need to delet some random extra lines that are created but the geometry will be exact. I then regroup the board.
Each piece of a project is usually group or turned into a component to make it easier to manipulate. Grouping and components are how you control sketchup. layering has nothing to do with how geometry relates.
Don't get too frustrated. There is a learning curve with Sketchup and it does have some quirks but once you get over the hump it is a great tool.
Well! Thank you for taking the time to describe this. I will definitely try to do what you're saying! I'm saving it to my hard drive so I can look at it with Sketchup loaded. Maybe your post will help others too.
Thanks!My goal is for my work to outlast me. Expect my joinery to get simpler as time goes by.
No problem John. Like I said it only took a few minutes, it actually took longer to explain it. I just wish my woodworking skills matched my computer skills. I would change careers.
I am a fairly new user of the free version of Google's Sketchup, and have been spending quite a bit of time lately doing kitchen designs.
Here is a base cabinet, made of two stacked boxes, the bottom one frameless, the top with a skinny faceframe, done up to receive the new Sharp Microwave Drawer.
View Image
The reason for the two-stack is because we buy all our cabs from a 32mm frameless KD outfit, and the bottom one with doors is routine, whereas they will have to do special work for us for the drawermount MW box.
I do all of my detail design in 3D including dovetails. The ability to print full-size templates for use in marking out components is a time saver and adds to quality and reducing chance of mistakes.
Attached is example of dovetail work.
Tim
Very nice sketchup and design work Killen. I couldn't agree more. In addition to the great benefit of full size templates I find having virtually stepped through the construction of the piece beforehand decreases mistakes, and having life like views to really see what the finished piece is like allows changes/improvements to design that you would otherwise not make. Sometimes the simplest design changes can make a mediocre piece into a great one.
I'm a little late getting into this discussion but the summer has been busy.
I am a architect, although I don't acturally design buildings. I started with computer drawing with Drafix Cad in about 1987 or 88. I have upgraded with every new version. The latest version is Autosketch 9 by Autodesk. Yes folks, Drafix Cad became Quick Cad when Autodesk bought it has now replaced Autosketch with a few new features, unfortunately not 3d.
Outside of my professional life I have been known to make some sawdust. I have been doing furniture essentially for family for abut 15 years. Every piece of furniture, every detail, has been drawn using Drafix Cad, Quick Cad or Autosketch. If I need to show something I draw an axo. If I need to show the other side I draw another axo.
These cad programs have served my needs en every instance.
I have also sucessfully used some of the low end house design programs.
If anyone out there needs some help with QuickCad let me know.
ASK
Hey All,I'm pretty new to woodworking, but I'm an engineer so I'm kind of a CAD guru. For woodworking, solidworks isnt necessary, though it's a huge improvement over autodesk products. I've used Pro Engineer(Pro/E), and though its not as easy to use as Solidworks for some things (compound (3d) curves)- it's a non-issue in woodworking (from what I've seen). There are a lot of Pro-E for dummies kind of books, so that's a big help getting started. However, I recently happened upon a new program called alibre..and it's the easiest program I've ever seen. It's parametric, so no more autocad headaches. They have a 30 day free trial. My advice, pick up the basic version, and if you have a student in the house (k-12, or college), you can get an education discount so it's only $80. (No idea what it is normally).-Scott
As an engineer, I used AutoCad LT for ~10 years and have continued using it for the last three years in my woodworking business. Unfortunately, the customers can't "see" my designs in the basic plan and elevation drawings so I'm switching to TurboCad Professional v12.
It's all about $$$. The "full" version of AutoCad is way beyond my price point and Sketchup didn't seem to quite do what I wanted. TurboCad seems to be quite similar to AutoCad and they're offering a "competitive upgrade" edition for a reasonable price ($399?). They also have a "Deluxe" edition for ~$100. Deluxe may have been all I really needed, but I decided to take a bigger bite of the bullet - lol.
I'm just starting on the TurboCad learning curve and am probably a month, or so, away from being ready to start showing drawings to customers. I'm sure that this switch will be a good one, but I sure miss the "old days" when 2-3 of us would learn a new program together and help each other past the rough spots. This "old dog" WILL learn this new trick...........but it ain't gonna be as easy as it used to be. - lol
Am I the only one using CATIA?? head and sholders above AutoCad, but with a price to match.
Les
Les,
I've been using CATIA since the early 80's at work (NC programming). I have never done any personal work on the system but I know it will model anything and produce CNC code for virtually any shape. Definately high end. Take a look at any newer Chrysler product - designed in CATIA. If it's a large product - cars, aircraft, ships, submarines,.. chances are it was designed and manufactured using CATIA.
Jim
You can look into Rhino also, it is a great 3d and the commands are the same as CAD
rhino3d.com
It's a bit late for looking, Stan. - lol I've had TurboCad 12 for a little over a month and have already used it for two projects. I just got back from meeting a third customer and will probalby use it to whip out some quick sketches tonight.
The first two weeks of the switch from AutoCad LT were the hardest. Then, I got over the hump and it all started making sense. I knew it was a done deal when I had to go back to one of my old AutoCad drawings and had to stop and think about how to use it.
I agree,
I think that Cad software falls into three catagories for woodworkers.
2D drafting (AutoCad, Turbo Cad, et...), which is good for shop drawings and general layout but hard for customers understand. A very big advantage is that you can get a good program for a low price if you look at old versions of the big names. AutoCad R14 is lame compaired to the current version, but it is tried and true and relatively easy to use.
General purpose 3D Cad programs (Solid Works, Inventor, Sketchup) can give realistic representations of the project that customers can understand and that helps sell jobs. But they tend to be over complicated for wood working, and take a lot of time to become compitent. They also are expensive, and you get what you pay for. The inexpensive products tend to not use common file formats and lack crucial constraint management features. In my opinion if the software dosent have good constraint utilities you are better off using a pencil. For example after spending a day modeling a dining table you sit back to critique the piece and realize that the Table top would work better wider. A properly associated model will automaticly resize the skirt and stretchers to match. Low end programs will require that you resize every part seperately. Another major shortfall of the inexpensive programs is a lack of "shop drawing generators" or drafting utilities as they are called.
Then you have the industry specific 3D programs like Ecabinets, Cabinet ware and the like. These are generally easier to learn because they "speak our language" You will never see phrases like "parametric modeling", "driven demensions" or "associative constraints". You do see words like "Dado", "flush" and "reveals". They usually generate shop drawings, and create cut lists. But with all this easy interface comes a loss of flexibility. Trying to get these programs to make a chair is harder than just using a pencil and eraser.
So the best CAD software is no different than the best jointer or router. It depends on your needs and pocket book.
Pardon my spelling,
Mike
Make sure that your next project is beyond your skill and requires tools you don't have. You won't regret it.
Don't forget the SketchUp is free, so long as you don't mind a small number of features being left out. It's a pretty good program, perhaps not as specialised as some mudman mentioned but with the scripting facility people are adding some interesting domain specific extras.
It's easily worth the cost :-)
I downloaded the free SketchUp, but it won't open. Any ideas?
Thanks.
Hmm. Well the only serious source of help is going to be the google sketchup forum I guess - http://sketchup.google.com/support/I have the 5 pro version which is deliverd a different way, so I don't have any idea how the free version has to be unpacker or installed!
Thanks. I tried looking at their help section. The only thing that I saw that may address it said that if there are problems with dial-up (which I have now), that they may be corrected by re-downloading with broadband (which I should have in a couple days).
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