Replies

1. 
   Len | Sep 18, 2003 04:45pm | #1

   Tony,

   Yes, it's worth it. Do a search of the archives. Over the last year there has been a lot of discussion about TS.

   Personally I own a Grizzly 1023S, previously a Ryobi BT3000. So far the Grizzly has been great. The Ryobi served me well for 12+ years.

   Len

2. 
   dirtstirrer | Sep 18, 2003 05:07pm | #2

   Tony,

   I think I'm the last one to start a thread on this subject, but it sure is a blast to talk about so...

   My question was, Jet Cabinet saw or stick with my trusty old Delta contracter.  For me the Jet was a really great deal, but I don't really think it's going to do anything the Delta won't.  In fact, the Jet is still sitting, and I'm using the Delta.  I have some wiring to do before it's good to go, but I did string a scary looking tangle of wire over to the breaker box the other day, just to try it out.  I'm used to the little motor on the Delta, and geeze that Jet sounds freaky.  Kind of like the exit end of a Pratt & Whitney by comparison.  Almost hurt myself too, spaced over the fact that the throat plate was a good 1/4" to low, the had a cutoff dive and fly.  Decided to park it till I had the time to set it up right.

   You ask is it worth it?  Well, do you want one?  My contracter did everything I asked it to, but the cabinet saw "looks" more professional.  The cabinet saw is a massive beast compared to the contracter, dust collection is better, fit and finish are better, more power, ect.ect.  After seeing the Jet daily for a week or so, if I wouldn't have gotten a deal, I would have bought the Powermatic 66 instead, but I saved a grand this way.

   You asked about Sears saws, no first hand experience with their table saw, but, every other Sears tool I try, while functional, leaves a lot to be desired.  There are a lot of other choices out there that will be better saws.  Hey, want to buy a great used Delta?:)   

   Steve

3. 
   BG | Sep 18, 2003 05:20pm | #3

   Tony,

   I made my decision about a year ago after much soul searching and analysis.  First of all, whatever you buy, it'll probably last a long long time so you need to be satisfied with your decision. Personally, I decided I would not be happy with anything less than a cabinet saw, not because of need but because of ego and that sort of stuff.....and why not, I've wasted lots of money on things that have brought less happiness.  As important however, the price of the Grizzly cabinet saw is not a whole lot different than the Delta. Powermatic contractor saw..so that made the decision easier.  My decision came down to a used Delta cabinet saw or a new Grizzly...I chose the Griz.

   Yesterday I was looking at blades for the saw.  I realized that over the course of the year my needs have changed.  I cut a lot of 2" or greater stock now then I did in the past.  I suspect because I have the cabinet saw I tend to recycle thicker stock. The contractors saw will of course do that, but I'm less concerned with the cabinet saw. I use the dado blades more frequently, I'm not concerned about the impact on the motor and I get a smoother cut.  Lastly, I have a very small shop space, had a roll up table for the outfeed, two weeks ago I added a drop down outfeed table to the cabinet, it really works terrific and can be folded out of the way.  The roll up table is now used to sticker and stack the prepared pieces before assembly, leaving my workbench free for joinery and final smoothing.  Again, the contractor saw can do all that, just not quite as easily. 

   Bottom line, I think the availability of cabinet saw will change things, however, its mostly about ego and your gonna have it for a long time.  

4. 
   forestgirl | Sep 18, 2003 08:01pm | #4

   Tony, which Grizzly contractor's saw are you considering?  Most of their contractor's saws leave alot to be desired.  The cabinet saw, on the other hand, nice!

   Over the long haul, I'd bet the cabinet saw will be more satisfactory.  Heavier, less vibration, more power, and much, much less prone to coming out of adjustment than a contractor's saw, which is a pain (I know) to readjust trunnion-wise.

   Craftsman?  No way.  Stick with someone who cares.  Their power tools virtually always have shortcomings in design, and tech support is not good.

   forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl   ;-)

1. 
   Leonardo | Sep 18, 2003 11:30pm | #5

   I almost afraid to post this.  When I retired a couple of years ago my wife gave me a table saw because I had indicated that I always wanted to do some woodworking.  She bought a Craftsman 10" TS (about $200) with the pull out wings and pull out outfeed support.  I haven't read anything good about craftsman, I get the feeling this saw isn't worth comenting on. I just don't know what is wrong with it.  I have made few items for the house and all kinds of jigs and shelves and stuff for the shop. I got a couple of good quality blades and a 6" stackable dado insert.  Its done everything I've wanted to do.  I am having a great time doing all this, so what am I missing?

   Len  (sorry for the edit, I forgot to sign the orig.)

   Edited 9/18/2003 4:34:28 PM ET by Leonardo

1. 
   JohnWW | Sep 18, 2003 11:44pm | #6

   Leonardo,

   It is quite possible that there is nothing wrong with your saw and in fact some of the bench top saws made by Sears and others are very nice machines capable of at least as good work as can be done on contractors saws.  Sears over the years has produced some pretty sorry power tools but this doesn't mean that all of their tools are inferior.

   John W.

2. 
   forestgirl | Sep 19, 2003 01:14am | #7

   Ditto to what JohnW said -- it's hit or miss, and IMHO mostly miss -- with Craftsman power tools.  I spent 2 or 3 years restricted to reading about woodworking tools before I was able to buy any, and I've owned a couple of Craftsman power items in the past.  My take is:

   They have cut corners in the design of almost all their tools.  (If you compare and contrast them with other major brands of a given tool at a given HP or whatever, you will see weaknesses in the specs of the Craftman tools.)

   Their technical support (a knowledgeable person to talk to) and customer support are, generally, poor and the parts are expensive and sometimes not obtainable because they change their lines so often.

   That's not to say that I'd never, ever buy a Craftsman tool, but it'd have to be a special situation and closely looked at -- their 10" compound miter saw comes to mind.  If your saw is working fine for you, that's Great!  You obviously got one that meets your needs and does everything you want it to if you're getting results.  I had a little Ace Hardware benchtop saw that cost me $75 and kept me pretty happy for a couple of years, no harm in that, LOL!

   Given that this thread's originator is considering going (possibly) as extravagant as a cabinet saw, I'm just thinking that his money's better and more reliably spent on either the Grizzly 1023 or one of the contractor's saw with a more consistent track record than Craftsman has.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl   ;-)

3. 
   Len | Sep 19, 2003 08:29am | #9

   Len,

   It seems strange to type my name at the top. Always happy to meet another Len.

   FWIW.

   Years ago Sears (Craftsman) stood for quality. Any tool that had the Craftsman label on it was lifetime guaranteed. I remember my father taking back tools when they broke and getting a new one. Even their power tools were lifetime guaranteed. I think it was in the early Seventies when things started to change. My father took back a aluminum cased drill and it was replaced with a new plastic one. He grumbled all the way home. Sears had changed there policy and the drill was labeled Sears not Craftsman. They only gave him a 90 day warranty. It was the worse drill. It made all kinds of funny noises and wasn't as smooth as my dad's old drill.

   IMO. A lot of other people have similar stories. So after awhile everyone stopped buying Craftsman tools and started calling them Crapsman. I think Sears has tried to make a come back by offering other brands labeled as Craftsman but the damage is done.

   Back to your TS. If it works for you. Great! That is all that matters.

   On the flip side. My dad bought two fishing rods from Sears that were labeled Craftsman. Ultimately they broke. My brother and I were not the gentlest of boys. He took them back. The salesperson look wide eyed and called the manager. He promptly gave my father his choice of new fishing rods.

   Enjoy,

   Len

5. 
   CharlieD | Sep 19, 2003 04:39am | #8

   Tony and Len

   When I started a couple of years ago, it was because I needed to put a hardwood floor into a new house I'd bought. Needed a TS for the transitions and occasionally to rip a piece to close out a wall. I didn't foresee falling in love with wood and woodworking, so I bought the Craftsman 2.7 hp 10" TS with the wings as was described above. $200. Basically a benchtop saw on a stand, but who cares?

   As I grew into the craft, I began to realize how limited the saw was. The fence was impossible to truly square, and wouln't stay square if you somehow managed to get it that way. The arbor was too small for a full-sized stacked dado, or a dial-a-dado. It was grossly under-powered, the table wasn't flat, the plastic hand-wheels kept falling off etc, etc, ad nauseum. Now, since then I've come to realize that the blades I was using (basically the blade Sears included with a $200 saw--you can just imagine) were a major factor in the quality of the cuts I was able to achieve and the lack of power, but this didn't solve fence and accuracy issues, or that infuriatingly short arbor.

   The next time my wife was shopping at Sears (I'd sworn never to buy another Craftsman tool, even if Sears held a gun to my head), expecting nothing, out of pure frustration, I vomited my sad story all over the poor sales guy that asked to help me. He looked horrified at my disgust with Sears/Craftsman, and literally ran to get the manager. The manager carefully quetioned me about my dissatisfaction, and when he heard me say I'd never buy Craftsman again, he offered to take the saw back (it was over a year old, and well used !) and apply the FULL price of that saw to an upgrade. I leaped on the deal and got a $500 contractor style saw with a router table built into the left wing.

   I'm embarrassed to admit here, where I respect everyone and their opinions, that I'm thrilled with the saw. Len, other than the things I've mentioned, what you're missing is belt drive. The better saw is a dream by comparison. It's doesn't scream like your direct-drive saw, it whizzes. Direct-drive is basically just a Skil saw under a table. You can make a zero-clearance insert for the better saw easily, drastically reducing tearout on the bottom of your workpiece. It's heavy and solid, accurate if you're careful, and safer. Ten times the saw for about twice the $. That's not to say it'll compare to any decent cabinet saw, but I've been happy and have made some great things (I think) with it. And I got a router table as part of the the deal.

   Others would hate the thing, I know that. My main point is that Sears stood up. And THAT was a very pleasant surprise that I wouldn't feel right about keeping to myself.

   Charlie

6. 
   thiggy1 | Sep 19, 2003 02:35pm | #10

   Tony, I don't know if I am comparing apples to apples here, but I have owned a Craftsman contractor saw between 5 and 10 years and have been quite pleased with it's performance.  It is the type with cast iron right and left extension wings.  At the time I bought it I did not know that I was supposed to be disappointed with it.  Surprisingly, the factory rip fence is parallel with the blade and locks in position very firmly.  Not surprisingly, the splitter/blade guard assembly is a cumbersome piece of junk and has not seen any service since the first week of the saw's purchase.  Would I buy a new C'ftsman contractor saw today?  Probably not, but I would seriously consider an older one if I found one at a good price.