i am a beginning novice. on the plans for New Fangled Workbench i am looking at directions for the front 1/2 inch pipe leg supports for the planing beam. The plans say, “Hole for planing beam pipe. 1 in. dia. by 3/4 in deep centered 1 iin from end.”
QUESTION: doee this direction mean that the center of the one inch hole is one inch from the end? or does it mean that the outer perimeter of the one inch hole is one inch from the end?
any one know? im trhing to complete this this morning Sunday 12 Feb.
Replies
I used 3/4 inch pipe clamps and if I remember it was centered on the center point of the hole. That said I somehow got it wrong and had to glue in a dowel plug and re drill it. No big deal. You are gonna love this bench.
Also I'm not too sure of the outside diameter of 1/2 inch black pipe, but a one inch hole seems a bit large. A 3/4 inch black pipe has an outside diameter close to one and a sixteenth of an inch.
At one time the printed plans, the published plans in FWW Mag and the Sketchup plans were a bit different and one of the things they were different on was the size of some of the black pipes. In the well running the length of the bench one of the plans called for 3/4" long pipes, 3/4" cross pipes for the front vise, and 3/4 inch MDF for the covers. I managed to fit all three layers in the well but it was a tight squeeze and I had to modify some dimensions a bit.
EDITED Since I wrote the above I remembered a post that the desigher of the bench, John White, made in his forum Ask John White. This has been moved to the Archive folder. Here is what he posted about the 3/4 1/2 inch black pipe problem:
"The plans issued by FWW which were released long after the bench was originally featured in the magazine and without asking me to check them for accuracy. All of the pipe used in the bench is 1/2 black iron pipe, not the 3/4 inch pipe called out in the plans. 3/4 inch pipe and clamps, as noted, is too large and will create problems."
Well I'm still glad I went with the 3/4 throughout.
Just for clarification, the plans call out 1/2 in. pipe and not 3/4 in. I just reviewed the plans to make sure they are correct. I don't see any reference in the plans to 3/4 in. pipe.
1/2 in. pipe measures about 7/8 in. O.D. so 1in. holes will allow for an easy fit.
don't see any reference in the plans to 3/4 in. pipe
Well...yeah, they do. Fine Woodworking Project Plan #SU6 New-Fangled Workbench, currently in my hand at this very moment.
Page 5. "Other Parts"
4 3/4" Pipe Clamp Assemblies
2 3/4" by 96" Iron Pipe
2 3/4" by 24" Iron Pipe
2 3/4" by 33-1/4 Iron Pipe
Not too sure which plans you are looking at. There is the FWW article, the Sketchup digital plans and the printed plans sold by FWW "Taunton Product # 065113 AKA #SU6 - Skill Level Beginner.
Perhaps after John White complained that FFW got things wrong, they revised the plans and you have a new copy. As I stated before, I for one am glad they called for 3/4 as it makes a more solid clamping system. It just took a small bit of revision on my part during the build.
You must have an older copy of the plan. It was revised quite a long time ago. See this link for a screen grab. http://www.flickr.com/photos/8294157@N08/5446312227/ I was under the impression that those who bought copies prior to the revision would have been notified and offered the correction.
The original version was indeed incorrect but they were corrected. I probably ought to know since I drew the plans, after all.
I'm happy that you like the 3/4" clamps. I did draw it once that way for myself and they seemed to fit just fine.
HA !
If I had looked just two inches below the parts list on page 5 I would have read "Drawing by Dave Richards" Your drawings were great, plans easy to follow, a revision wouldn't have helped as the bench was built with 3/4 and has been in use ever since. I think I must have made the well deeper cause I see 1/4 in. thick hardboard spacers on top of the 9 inch blocks.
new fangled workbench
Thank you Swenson. I remember that post from John White. The half inch pipe i purchased has a one half inch opening. The outer dimension is larger. That is something to keep in mind. Mine did align well. I just find there is a little too much play since JW said to make one inch holes for the half inch pipe which is if i recall closer to 3/4 outer dimensions. so you can see there is room for confusion between inner and outer dimensions.
another problem: my tail vice does not work. When i put a workpiece in the long vice, between the properly measured jaws and snug it up, the two jaws push the work piece up as i tighten. tighten further and the work piece pops up and out. Any idea how to prevent this?
That sort of pipe is specified by its inside diameter. The outside diamter of 1/2-in. pipe is 0.840 in., just under 7/8".
new fangled workbench JAW RISE
Hi Dave,
Thank you. i understand that the 1/2 inch pipe is an inside measure now, and that the outer dimension is just under 7/8. Both you and Swensen have 3/4 inch pipe. it sounds like Swenson has a problem with jaw rise that is significant but not quite as problematic as mine. hair splitting i spose. I've thought of trying to cold weld a copper sleeve inside the pony clamp pipe hole to keep the pipe clamp fixture verticle, and prevent the bottom of the fixture from advancing to cause jaw rise. I am going to try Swensen's idea of shaving an angle off the bottom of the jaw where it meets the bottom of the clamp. Im not sure if that is exactly what swensen had in mind.
Jack
2 problems...
In getting the 3/4 holes so the mdf would not be proud of the top I had to do some adjustments to the holes and got loose pipes too. I just tapped in some little wooden wedges between the hole and the pipe, snapped off the excess, and they stay put.
I sometimes get the tail vise rise too. This vise seems to hold very well with light pressure and I think I was over tightening it. If the work piece doesn't move when pushed it's tight enough. I found that if I want to get rid of the jaw rise , tightening them a bit and then pushing the jaws down by hand , loosening and tightening a bit more, first one crank and then the other, sometimes first one jaw and then the other, that this works. But again I now use lighter pressure on the cranks and nothing moves that is clamped up. I have thought of making the jaw faces at a slight angle to see if that solves the problem but haven't tried it yet.
another thought
I just had another idea about the jaw rise problem. Perhaps if we put keeper screws in the tail vise jaws the same way we have in the front vise jaw they wouldn't do that. You know, the screws that capture the pipe jaws. I'm gonna try that in the AM.
new fangled workbench
Hi Swenson,
Thank yo for your thoughts on this jaw rise problem. I worked this pony clamp over and over with different wood widths and watched the action. Then i removed the wood and watched the action of the clamp. Guess what. It's the pony clamp. When the top of the clamp presses the jaw, the bottom of the clamp presses forward. This forces the bottom of the jaw to push up. THis in turn pushes the workpiece up---and possibly out. Look at your pony clamp by itself--no wood. There is about a quarter inch of play in the clamp itself. That quarter inch play causes a deviation from the clamp's vertical position. In other words the bottom of the clamp itself presses forward ahead of the top of the clamp. The forward pressing bottom part of the clamp pushes toward the bottom of the jaw while the top of the clamp and top of the jaw lag behind. That's the problem.
When John White first designed this another writer wrote that he used 3/4 inch pipe (inside dimen). Perhaps this size pipe clamp fixture did not have as much play, and therefore was not a problem.
If your keeper screws worked, please describe again where you put them so i can take a look. I have a call in to adjustable clamp company for Monday.
Jack, when I was reading Swenson's remarks about the jaw on the 1/2-in. clamps not remaining parallel, I had this quick vision of somehow using Bessy parallel jaw clamps. Of couse those jaws would probably get in the way and they'd increase the cost of the bench substantially. My next thought is to make a wooden jaw extends down so the pipe would pass through it preventing the jaw from tilting away from the work. I could sketch that out if it makes any sense.
That wasn't my post about 1/2 inch clamps not being parallel. I tried my idea about capture screws on the tail vise and it helps a lot. I put a pair of screws (with the head proud of the surface the thickness of the clamp face) around each clamp head, one on each side of each head and screwed into the back of the wooden tail block. They capture the heads in the same way that the screws on the back of the side vise capture the clamp heads on the side vise. This allows the block to be slid off the clamp heads if you want to do it on the tail vise and have to do it on the side vise. I was just down in the shop doing this and came up to post the results. I clamped up a 2" wide 3/4" strip between the blocks in the tail vise and pulled it up quite proud of the tops of the blocks. This has caused the worst rise and pop off problems in the past. Because the capture screws kept the head block from tipping at all that seems to keep the tail block from tipping very much and I cranked a lot of pressure down on the jaws and got no pop off three times out of four.
EDIT EDIT EDIT I just realized that I have been calling the front vise the "side vise" and probably confusing everyone. Sorry. I only have an old picture of the front vise. Haven't taken a pix of my new tail vise capture screws yet, but you get the idea.
NFW
Thank you Swensen. I'll try the keeper screws too. I did not understand what you were saying about the strip of wood however.
answer to dave richards
dave, thank you! both sound like good ideas. and yes id like to see drawings of them. could be a solution. i wonder what john white's input would be too. did he leave?
Vise jaw modification
Jack,
What I was thinking of is actually very similar to Swenson's front vise jaw. The wooden jaw would be cut and bored so it slips over the pipe. I'd make it out of something tough like ash and add a softer face that might be replaceable. The face that bears on the work might need a little bit of a rake so it clamps up parallel but that would take some experimentation. It might make sense to make separate jaws so odd shaped work can be clamped. If it worked, I sould see making it accept a variety of jaws if needed for clamping things like round table tops or whatever.
I can still make a sketch for you when I get home.
Jaw rise revisited.
Now that this topic is seeing action again I might add another thought to the jaw rise problem. In reading the article that roc mentioned by Frank Klausz , he (Frank) talks about bench dogs...
Square dogs have slightly angled faces soyou can pinch the board between the jaws, then drive the dogsdown to snug the piece against the top. A workpiece suspended in midair between the dogs will chatter when you work on it.
Later in the plans he calls for an inward slope of 88 degrees for the dog holes. What I'm going to try is cutting the faces of the tail vise blocks to that same inward slope, clamping up some stock and driving the blocks down with a mallet to see if the same snugging action happens as the angled dogs.
Hi Swenson Don't take this reply TOO seriously but . . .
I wondered why my ears were burning . . .
There are few things here on knots that I love to hate but this bench is one of 'em.
: }
Don't bother with the angle on the block the pipes will just bow and negate any angle to the jaws on the other end.
Freek'in, fangled, grumble @#$%#@$$ bench thing . . .
never saw such a . . . grumble, grumble . . . pipes and fiber board flaps . . . tilty . . . sticking up things need'in shims and things
I don't know what the wood world is coming to . . .
I just don't know any more . . .
love to hate this bench
There's nothing quite like loving to hate something. I used to love to hate Howard Cosell. I'd watch Monday Night Football and yell at the screen. When he was gone it left a big hole in my life. I had to learn to love to hate other things, but it was never the same. Those of us still fooling around with this giant clamping system called the New Fangled Workbench are providing you with a joy you just won’t miss 'till it's gone.
I don't think the pipes will bow as the wooden jaws don't touch the pipes and mine are 3/4" black pipe and they rest on the cross members and sometimes on the nearby cross pipes as well. I don't have the original problem since I put keeper screws on the one jaw block but I'm interested in the 88 degree fix just for the fun of it. Gotta finish the current project before I can give it a try.
I do have other benches in my shop so I am not stuck with just a NFWB but I built one just for fun and still find it very handy. When you have lots of room and time you can do things like that.
I always love your "freek'in grumble @#$%#@$$" input. Take care.
Oh well that's all different then.
>I do have other benches in my shop . . . built a NFWB as a giant clamping system.
Find it fun and very handy.<
Oh I get it now ! That's cool ! I keep thinking people are trying to use it as a cabinet makers bench and expect to use it with hand planes and stuff INSTEAD OF a solid wood bench.
Ohhhhhhh I got it now. Finally the lights are coming on for me.
newfangled workbench
I'm eager to build this thing, but locally, nobody has 1/2 inch pipe clamps, so I'd like to go for 3/4 inch pipes after having purchased the plans.
Any specific heads up comments on the modification to 3/4 as I start buying parts and building?
Might make it only 6 feet long.
Well...
Get yourself a couple of short pieces of 3/4-inch pipe and mock up part of the bench to see how things line up. I originally drew it for 3/4" pipe because I had those clamps on hand and it looked like things would work fine. I didn't mock it up though and it would be worthwhile before making the committment.
new fangled work bench
Thanks for the advice, Dave.
I'm not advanced in woodworking at all, and wanted to get my first real woodworking bench right the first time.
No experience in drawing up plans, although I have been trying out Sketchup.
Best regards.
Newfangled bench
Hi Dave,
Thanks for your previous reply. Could I trouble you with one final question?
I've got everything jointed, planed and cut to size, and tried to find a way to use my 3/4 inch pipe with the current plan's rails. If the rail is 3 inches high, and the MDF takes up 3/4 inches, and the pipe holes have to be a little more than 1 inch in diameter, say 1 1/8, that's 2 1/4 + 3/4=3 inches, which makes the cross vice holes too low with not enough of the bottom of the rail to support the pipes.
Did you glue strips on sections of the bottom of the rails so that there would be better support, or is there a better way to do this?
Thanks again,
Dave
Well...
Dave, I haven't built the bench in wood, yet but I didn't need to add anything to the rails to get the 3/4-inch pipe in the SketchUp model. The rail is drawn at 3" high and the holes for the tail vice are located so the MDF is flush with the top of the rails when it lays on the pipes. It all fits just fine. Here's a detail drawing of the bench that I hope shows it. http://flic.kr/p/9WWYsb
The front vice pipes don't clear the end vice pipes by much. In fact I don't see why the end vice pipes couldn't lay on the front vice pipes. The front vice pipes would obstruct sliding the moving jaws on the end vice but they will anyhow.
I've been thinking about this area on the bench and it occurred to me that I might put a 1/2-in.-wide by 3/4-in.-deep rabbet on the long rails and make the MDF panels 1 in. wider so the MDF is sitting on the shoulders of the rabbets instead of the pipes. that would allow for a little less precision in locating the pipe holes.
I hope that helps. E-mail me if you want.
-Dave
panels on rabbets/strips
I'm thinking of makin one of these benches too, but beefing it up a bit to make it more suitable for hand work. I thought of doing this also - laying the center panels on rabbets or strips. Another advantage of doing this is that it allows you to joint/flatten the solid wood top without having to worry about the panels sticking up - just take down the rabbet, or adjust the location of the strip (screwing it in would be beneficial here).
Meanwhile, as I contemplate my bench build, I don't really understand Roc's contempt for this bench. The design seems excellent to me - really innovative and flexible. I think maybe making the top a bit thicker and the support system underneath a bit heftier might help, but those are really minor variations. My current bench is a small desk with an extra layer of 3/4" MDF on top and some 2x4s underneath for extra bracing... I've never experienced any problems with handwork or lack of 'solidity."
glue strips on sections of the bottom of the rails
When I ran into this problem I had cut the rails wider than three inches, meaning to joint them down a bit before final assembly so I had a little bit more room for the pipes and pipes and MDF. I got them all in and all riding on each other, the MDF touching the long pipes touching the cross pipes. That left the bottom cross pipe holes with about a quarter inch of wood underneath. I figured that I would do what you talked about... gluing strips underneath the rails to give it more beef, but I never did as the pipes don't seem to exert any real pressure downward and the holes have never blown out. I think that is a good idea for you to do. You may find with use that you usually only use a couple of holes anyway and could add extra wood under just those holes. I tend to use the cross pipes about two feet from the end of the bench that does not have the planing hook on it. Of course when I made the rails wider than three inches I had to have thicker spacer blocks... I had already cut them so I added a piece of thin hardboard over or under the nine inch spacers. Hope this helps, it's 2am and I'm getting spacey.
As a last resort you could make the removable MDF top pieces thinner by running them thru a planer but you don't want them to flex too much so don't get carried away with this idea.
I’m a little late coming to this party(New-Fangled Work Bench). I have both the FWW article and the SketchUp plan. I’m going to use ¾” pipe clamps because I have several anyway.
The one detail of the plans that I’m having trouble visualizing is the installation of the tail vise screw jaws. At least one of the plans mentions attaching the screw driven jaw to the end support with screws.
Does this mean that the pipe is left to move as the vise is tightened? If so, this would mean that the pipe must be long enough to accommodate approximately as much movement as the clamp screw allows. Am I interpreting this correctly?
The only other thing I can think it means is to screw the jaw to the wooden clamp jaw. I had interpreted this piece to be a drop in.
Hopefully, someone that has built this bench according to the plans will see this post after all this time has passed and enlighten me.
Thanks in advance.
John in TN
John, I'm away from my computer with the plan and sketchUp model on it but if I remember correctly, the clamp jaw at the end of the bench gets screwed to the metal jaws of the pipe clamps. Of couurse you'd need to drill clearance holes for the screws. The jaw at the the other end is a drop in thing and not attached to the sliding jaws.
attaching the screw driven jaw to the end support with screws.
The side and end wooden jaws are drop ins. To keep the side pipe clamps from rotating in their holes, two "keeper" screws are used on each pipe clamp metal jaw as seen in my photo in an earlier post in this thread, IMG 3048 "Capture Screws On Side Vise" It's the picture with the saw in it. The end vise wooden jaws don't turn in their holes much because of the several supports they rest on. But the wooden jaw does have a tendency to pivot upwards with pressure against thin stock. Some of us use the same keeper screws seen in my picture mentioned above to stop this action. The jaws in both cases slip on and off the the metal jaws at will. Hope this helps.
Rail height
Thanks for the kind reply. Because it doesn't come via email, I hadn't noticed it until now.
I like your idea of adding hardboard to the spacers. I've planed all the wood to size, but the rails are not to final width yet, and if I leave them wider by the thickness of all that extra hardboard left over from the planing beam, it should be just right. Without that extra width, the residual wood at the bottom of the holes would be less than 1/8 inch thick.
I can't believe how long this has taken to make in my spare time. Looks good so far, from the outside, but don't take an x-ray.
I suspect that I will be using this bench forever. It's all white oak, and is already heavier than a Cat D11N...
Thanks again.
Dave
all that extra hardboard
That hardboard on the planing beam is not needed. It was needed when the very first NFWB was converted from a top only board hook to one on the top and one on the bottom. I could see no need for it and left it off and it works fine. Glad I could be of some help. I remembered a bunch of pix I posted on Knots about an extra vise I put in my MFWB that you can find here in the Workshop forum on 9/29/10:
Hidden Vise
swenson on Wed, 09/29/2010 - 19:25
in
Workshop
I still find that extra vise useful, but don't use it as much as I thought I would. Here is a pix of the two part beam with no hardboard. I never could see why it was included in the final plans.
Cat D11N Do you drive one of those things?
all that extra hardboard
Thanks for that tidbit.
They look more finished than the round holes. Sorry for exaggerating. That Cat is the heaviest dozer. I only have a Scattrack diesel 1750 skidsteer out here on the acreage.
But the bench will be really heavy. My cabinet saw, band saw, 8 inch jointer and dust collector are all on caster frames so I can move things around when the skidsteer is in the shed during the winter keeping warm. But I'll have to leave the bench stationary as an outfeed for the cabinet saw.
Why did you make the rail holes square, and how did you do them? Forstner and chisel? Is the end of your crosspiece for the side vice pipes mortised into one of the holes?
Innovation!
Thanks.
rail holes square
I'm not sure what you are talking about, I don't have any square holes in this bench. Did you see them in this post or in the one on the hidden vise? The NFWB was built exactly to the plans from FWW and the sketchup for the NFWB with the exception of mods that I made for the 3/4 inch pipe. I have a built in bench on one wall of my shop that has square holes along the face for square pegs to go in to support long boards like a board jack, but I don't think there are any pix of this bench in any of my NFWB posts. I built that bench twenty four years ago and can't remember how or why I cut square holes when round ones would have been faster and better.
To All,
>Cat D11n<
How about a D10 ?
Here's a song by Guy Clark
http://www.amazon.com/Heavy-Metal/dp/B001F3DX7I
Can click on the play triangle to hear a taste. Good song. Great artist !
I like it.
roc
Good sound. If the D10 is 175,000 pounds, how much more does the D11 weigh? Do I need to get one to trump my neighbor's riding mower? Is there room for it on .25 (that's point 25, not 25) acres here in the subs of Northern VA? Can I drive it on the beltway?
Errrr . . .
>How much does a D11n weigh ?<
I have no idea. We will need to consult Tonewheel Dave for that one.
> trump my neighbor's riding mower?<
I'd be careful there in this day and age where guys are building and racing riding lawn mowers he may still be able to out run ya. That might look embariskin in the final inalawsees.
>Is there room for it on .25 . . . acres here in the subs of Northern VA?<
No prob. if "It can push the Rocky Mountains into the sea" it can surely make room for its self ANY PLACE YOU WANT TO PARK IT .
> Can I drive it on the beltway?<
Well I don't know about no beltways. But living here in the Wild Wild West I can recommend one. Just yesterday I had a fool that had his family with him cross a double yellow line and back to cut in front of me just so he could be one car link closer to getting across the highway when the rare opportunity came. So much for stopping behind the stop sign as I was. Yep I was already stopped and had been there a while. The game is how many vehicles can we fit beyond the stop sign without actually getting clipped by the cars on the highway.
A dangerous game but they love it here. Unfortunately I didn't have the D10 or I could have simply pushed him off into the creek before rejoining the civilized world.
Should be all good on the beltway I spekt.
Sorry, must have looked at the wrong shot.
D11 weighs only 204,517 lbs, which is shy of this bench by 500 lbs.
So I've resawn some oak shims at 1/4 inch for the top blocks and tail vise end supports. This is going to work out. Thanks for the advice.
One thing is driving me crazy. The bottom lag bolts for one of the wide legs must not have been absolutely plumb, so one top bearer is not quite square with the rest. If this was metal, I'd use a come-along.
Question: How did you attach the top? Preassemble upside-down, flip over, then screws from the bottom of the top bearer and on up into the top?
I need to finish this bench so I can work on mahogany trim for a large 20-window (individual) bay window. I bought a used 3 HP 1 1/2 inch shaper which scares me so much that I got a power feeder for it, and I still cower behind the Delta jointer when the trim goes through it. I have a Hutterite patient who has 2 fingers missing on one hand and another on the other, and I asked him if he had a shaper out on the colony. He said, "How do you think I lost these? And on two occasions. You would think I'd have learned the first time."
So on the band saw or the router or the drill press or even the cabinet saw, I can see ONE finger flying off and me heading down to ER with the remnants, but the shaper...kind of an Arnold Schwarzenegger machine.
Thanks again.
Dave
How did you attach the top?
Can't remember. After passing 70 I find that my memory, while still perfect, is just very short. I'll take a look and get back to you. I keep a camera in the shop and took a lot of pix during construction and I'll look thru them too. I seem to remember lying on my back on the floor during one part of this construction, that could have been the top attachment. I did follow all instructions regarding screwing the whole thing together, though I think gluing some of the parts would have been faster. Every once in a while I stick a screw driver down the deep holes and tighten the screws. Those that move only tighten a teeeeny tiny bit.
I have the number 10 inked with a sharpie pen where can I see it every time I use a machine that can take off fingers to remind me to leave with all ten fingers when thru. I painted little red drops of blood on some of the machines too. The more comfortable one gets with dangerous things the more careless one gets I have found. A lot of rock and ice climbs as well as 428 freefalls taught me that.
How do you attach the top?
Thanks.
I'm 63 and don't know how the time sped by.
Ice climbs take a lot of bravado!
I like your wisdom about not getting too cozy with dangerous things. Had skidsteer quick attachment levers work loose while an earth auger was being pulled out of the dirt above the cab, the latter falling into the cab and crushing a foot and lacerating my legs. Wheelchair and crutches for a while.
Finally got the table frame square tonight.
I don't know if drywall screws are the best idea. Had one snap because it couldn't take much torque. But it's encouraging to see that you haven't had to do much adjusting over time.
Attach top.
I'm still trying to figure out how I did it. Having a little trouble with my right knee from kneeling on a hard surface and can't get down underneath to look, but I feel holes at the ends. I think at first I attached the top on the ends thru the top bearer and it seemed solid. That left the wide side of the top just resting on the cross rails. All seemed ok 'till I started to move the bench around, lifting under the wide side which lifted a bit off the rails. I now see holes plugged with dowels on the top of the wide side and I think what I did is counter bore down thru the top and screw the wide side down into the cross rails, something I would never do on any other kind of table or bench. The reason probably being that I didn't want to drill and counter bore from underneath with the whole thing right side up and mostly finished.
Found a picture before top installed and I think all the screws you see underneath do not go into the wide side top, just into the cross rail parts.
EDIT ADD... what looks like dark spaces over the cross rails are the hard board spacers I used to let the well be deeper for the 3/4 pipes.
As for twisting off drywall screws, where a lost drywall screw would cause a big problem getting it out, I drive 'em by hand and take care with the right sized pilot hole. Even with torque set right on a power drill it can happen. Never broke one when using an old fashioned hand screw driver.
The more I look at this picture, the more I am thinking that some of those screws must go into the wide side of the top. But there must have been some reason I put a few in through the topside and plugged them.
Attach top.
Thanks again for the kind reply.
I like the idea of the plugs. If it ever has to be disassembled, that sounds so much more workable.
To flatten the top when done, there are a number of options, but if the rails are planed down a bit in the process, I suspect that I might have to run the MDF panels through the planer to take a little off. How did you flatten the top?
Got it flat with a few passes of a hand plane crosswise and then lengthwise. This is not my only bench and it is flat enough for what I use it for. I don't think you want to take too much off the mdf, too thin and it will flex too much I think, but that is what you would have to do it it got proud of the top. Don't mind roc rants. He means well. I think flat is over rated. Flat? I doan need no stinkin flat! Or badges, for that matter.
The fact is it came out quite flat because it was not glued. Each board was edge clamped dry and screwed thru counter bored holes and tightened up before the clamps were removed and the next board attached. No sliding around and no squeeze out.
Got it flat
Thanks for the advice. I started with rough red oak, and some of the boards took a fair amount of jointing and planing, and even then there were a few of them that continued to do their thing a bit after all of that. The supplier said it was dry. So, I used some K-Body Revos to clamp them to death and bumped them with a rubber mallet until it was as good as possible, did the countersinks and screws similar to what you have done, but I'll still have some planing.
As I put the bearers and blocks on top of each other I don't want to end up with screws directly over top of each other, but I also want a good distribution for fastening. Your pictures help a lot here.
So, Roc gets fairly revved up, and may not have liked Columbus that much, who also said that things weren't flat. It's true that some of us can get a little too focused on that bench. But I can think of a number of times when I could really have used the bench to make this one!
Tonight, I was going ballistic because I couldn't find 2 of the top bearers anywhere. I knew that I had them in that corner. So, I asked my 21 year old son if he had taken them. He said that he had shot up a board about that size with the shotgun. (!) Never thought I would get that worked up about one small piece of finished wood. Turned out he did shoot up a board, but it was fir.
I finally found them. I'd forgotten that I had screwed the two end ones onto the side frames....quintessential idiot that I am.
Screws directly over top of each other.
I can see on some of my pix that I carried the lines, where the screws went in, around the sides and ends of the boards so that later when I couldn't see the screws anymore I would know where they were and not run new screws into old ones.
At least twice a day I loose something in my shop. After taking a turn or two around all the places I think I left the missing tool I just start cleaning up and putting things back where they belong and sooner or later I find it.
Before I retired I was an editor for a nightly network news show and every once in a while we would loose a tape in the edit room just before air. It always had something real important on it like the on camera close or an important sound bite and you can imagine the panic of two producers, a correspondant and an editor crawling around on the floor and under the equipment racks looking for the one thing that will keep them from being fired with only minutes to go.
I don't shoot the 12 Ga. in the shop any more because of the noise, only the Glock, and only into end grain.
Take care. Swenson
screws directly on top of each other
That's what I did for the three boards.
Was that Betacam or were you already digital? Because nowadays, it's almost all cards (SxS, etc), and try to find THOSE in an office stacked with paperwork. I guess that's why you sometimes see bad color balance, blown highlights, audio/video asynchrony, jump cuts, etc, even on the national networks because some poor editor gets the video footage at the last possible second and he has to work out the ins and outs, color grading, transitions, titling and graphics, and sync all this to the voice talent...
Why the Glock? It doesn't make as pretty a pattern in distressing wood as a shotgun.
Can you change the topic title? Doesn't look so good for Sundsy.
Dave
screws directly on top of each other
That's what I did for the three boards.
Was that Betacam or were you already digital? Because nowadays, it's almost all cards (SxS, etc), and try to find THOSE in an office stacked with paperwork. I guess that's why you sometimes see bad color balance, blown highlights, audio/video asynchrony, jump cuts, etc, even on the national networks because some poor editor gets the video footage at the last possible second and he has to work out the ins and outs, color grading, transitions, titling and graphics, and sync all this to the voice talent...
Why the Glock? It doesn't make as pretty a pattern in distressing wood as a shotgun.
Can you change the topic title? Doesn't look so good for Sundsy.
Dave
Beta
Yes, when I left they were shooting on beta and digitizing to a huge server that each edit room could work from. We were cutting on Avid. I got into broadcasting in 1957 and television news in 1964 as a film editor, so I went from film to tape to digital. What started out as defects on the film, dirt and scratches etc, they are now adding digitally for crying out loud, to make the pix look more film like. Go figure. On our show we sometimes worked for months on one piece, at other times it was hours or sometimes minutes with breaking news. Digital made efx and color correcting very simple. As for jump cuts, remember one jump cut is a mistake... three is ART. Sync problems came with the switch to digital and was not an edit problem for the most part. By the time a piece was cut and fed to the network in NY and fed out on the show it would sometimes just get out of sync and engineering was having a lot of problems figuring out why. I never understood the reasons for those problems but it gave those in charge fits.
Just noticed the topic title... not my fault, I cut and pasted it from your post. Honest.
Beta
For a while there, I had an Avid Media Suite Pro setup, and it was fairly good, but Final Cut Pro came along, and this really changed everything. I'm shooting with a Sony EX1 to SxS cards.
The table top is pretty well finished and I've flipped it over. The wedge needs to go on and I have to build the planing beam and cut its pipes to size.
It shouldn't be too long now...
We were a beta site for the Avid Newscutter years ago. Others followed, Media Composer etc. I've been retired for three years and have lost track of what is going on at ABC. I have an Avid Pinnacle Studio 14 on my wife's computer but have never used it. I've been using a Sony PD 150 to shoot the grandchildren. One of these days I'll get around to editing again.
If you are using black pipe, sand it and clean it up before you attach it 'cause it is messy. Wipe it down with a rag and paint thinner after sanding or you'll have black powder all over everything.
Post us some pix when you're done.
Pipes
I've always admired the video editing guys. Nobody knows the work behind the scenes you folks do and have done.
Thanks for the advice about the black pipe.
The table is pretty much finished now. Just a bit of planing and sanding and plugs. Instead of dowelling for the long jaw, I used 2 short lengths 0f 1/4 inch brass rod Gorilla glued, the tops flush with the table top.
The only thing not attached is the planing beam stiffener. I eliminated the hardboard at your suggestion. But with the beam parts made of oak, I don't see any sag. Do you think I should still add it, reduce the mass, or leave it off?
Thanks very much,
Dave
Beam stiffener
I would add it if it was my bench. First, extra mass in a bench is good 'till you have to move the bench, but you can always take the whole beam off when you have to do that. Second, the added weight helps to lower the beam, however it makes it heavier to lift when raising it. It would be easy to add it later if sag is a problem so either way works. The level is quite handy when setting to a new height but after a while setting it by eye works for me too. I set it by eye and then look at the level and nine times out of ten it is right on.
Just like in your avatar photo
>set it by eye<
Dead Eye Swenson
: )
Dead Eye
That fire plug was one of my better projects. I was shooting some pistol and two gun (pistol/M4) IDPA matches and they needed some new and different props to take cover behind. They thought a mail box or a fire plug would be nice so I made them both. The fireplug was made out of two hunks of cardboard concrete forms, the kind you use for deck footings and such. The upright was ten inch diameter and the cross piece was eight if I remember. The silver top was an old wooden jam chuck I used on my lathe and plywood circles made up the rest of the valves as well as internal bracing and a compartment near the bottom, filled with sand, to make the thing stand upright and add weight. Drips of red paint from the plug that fell on the floor looked just like blood so I used some of it it to paint little drops on some of my more dangerous machines as a reminder to end each day with ten fingers.
beam stiffener
Thanks, Swenson.
I'll see how it goes.
One modification I made was to position the long pipes in a bit from the edges of the well, so I could just fit the cross vise pipe clamp between the front long pipe and the rail. That means I wouldn't have to drill holes in the pipe, or add a section of brace like romano. The pressure is exerted by the clamp directly against the front rail.
The MDF is at most about 1/16 inch shy of the top of the rails, so I might go for your modification with hardboard strips. If I do that, it will further stabilize the MDF, but will rule out the modification above.
I thought that i would make a prairie style long vertical hall mirror frame for the first project on this bench (longer than the picture). I have a couple of 6 foot lengths of rough mahogany.
Beam Stiffener
Finally got it all done. I used Danish Oil for a finish for now.
Thanks to you and the others who have weighed in with suggestions and advice, especially the 3/4 inch pipe modification.
Here are some pictures to show I wasn't faking it! I know that others have done a much better job on this bench, including quite a few beautiful modifications, but it's a start.
Best regards,
Dave
To All ( not picking on Tonewheel )
> K-Body Revos to clamp them to death and bumped them with a rubber mallet until it was as good as possible<
Best to plane the parts to fit when relaxed. Maybe I just get too . . . oh I don't know what about . . . it all.
>So, Roc gets fairly revved up<
>SOME of us can get a little TOO focused on that bench.<
Hey, I gotta go with it where I can find it. Truth be told this bench and exclaiming about its "idiosyncrasies" is the only thing keeping me from getting my ACBZM license : Always Completely Blissful Zen Master License. I just can't get past it. I hope you understand. Weakness of the flesh and all.
>and may not have liked Columbus that much, who also said that things weren't flat.<
Hey now I NEVER said things were not flat, YOU were asking about flattening something or other.
Good thing you didn't say the unspeakable ( shhhh . . . the solar system doesn't revolve around the earth ) (though every body knows it is Venus that everything revolves around ).
>I can think of a number of times when I could really have used the bench to make this one! <
Yes the days are getting a lot shorter and the shop is kind of cold in the morning, some extra hardwood just sitting around can look inviting to poke into the old stove.
Sorry, sorry, ha ha ha just fooling around. Who knows I may even build one of these some day.
>I finally found them.<
Yep I find that to ferociously ignoring the blasted thing that is lost while doing something unrelated and preferably inversely important to the success of the out come is the fastest way to find any lost item. Of course, invariably, one doesn't resort to this until other "options" have been exhausted. These days, especially at work, I just go for the fastest way. The boss is highly skeptical and protests most emphatically. Most emphatically indeed. She just doesn't fully grasp the holistic interconnectedness of all things. I wouldn't want her at the helm the next time I am about to be trapped on the event horizon of a worm hole ! I tell you.
It is just how the universe works. I expect they will prove this any day now at the Cern Labs
http://public.web.cern.ch/public/en/About/About-en.html
Tonewheel,
In any case, no hard feelings . . . congratulations on building your new work bench. Photos of the bouncing new addition to the shop to follow I trust ?
To all
Hi Roc.
I'm not good enough at planing yet. I actually don't care about things being flat so much as not having anything proud.
I thought that the world down there lately revolves around the politicians, not the folks, and it sounds like that might be changing. But the news up here only comes in once a week by dog team, so I may have that wrong.
Schwarzschild wormholes or exotic dark alderwood wormholes? I'm still stuck on E=mc2.
Photos will come when it's finished and it will be finished when Hades freezes over, at this rate.
I'll try to keep in mind the fact that, when I lose something really important and there is a deadline, to pretend that it's not important, and that there is no deadline, so I'll go off and do something else, and the lost item will suddenly appear, out of sheer boredom at not having anybody look for it.
Best regards,
Dave
To all
Hi Roc.
I'm not good enough at planing yet. I actually don't care about things being flat so much as not having anything proud.
I thought that the world down there lately revolves around the politicians, not the folks, and it sounds like that might be changing. But the news up here only comes in once a week by dog team, so I may have that wrong.
Schwarzschild wormholes or exotic dark alderwood wormholes? I'm still stuck on E=mc2.
Photos will come when it's finished and it will be finished when Hades freezes over, at this rate.
I'll try to keep in mind the fact that, when I lose something really important and there is a deadline, to pretend that it's not important, and that there is no deadline, so I'll go off and do something else, and the lost item will suddenly appear, out of sheer boredom at not having anybody look for it.
Best regards,
Dave
>want to get first REAL work bench . . . <
Dave,
It's never too late . . . https://www.finewoodworking.com/Workshop/WorkshopPDF.aspx?id=2129
real workbench!
Roc,
My heritage is German, and I can hear his precise accent as he narrates the construction of this most beautiful work of art. The Peart equivalent.
Thanks for the link.
Dave
You are welcome. Here is an excerpt you may or may not find of interest from a past thread.
I quote:
> Hardware<
I looked at vise hardware in great detail from a metal worker's perspective a few years ago when gearing up to make this thing.
Tail vise hardware : It has been many years and I am too lazy to look up my receipts but I am pretty darn sure this is the tail vise screw I used :
http://www.woodcraft.com/Family/2000308/...
I bought it because it is German made rather than China or Taiwan and because it is 1-1/4 diameter rather than 1-1/8 ". It is just that when it comes to woodworking tools I would go to G before C or T.
end quote
If you want more to read here is the original discussion.
http://forums.finewoodworking.com/fine-woodworking-knots/hand-tools/klausz-frid-scand-bench-dead
Yes I do go on at times. And on and on and on . . .
Mark it down to enthusiasm for the subject.
John, I'm away from my
posted twice somehow.
Ah ! The lights are beginning to come on.
>How did you flatten the top?<
I know you didn't ask me but oh well. If you were in the church in centuries past this is the point where they would be busting out the bonfire wood, planting a big stake in the middle of it and trying to decide if maybe the guillotine might after all be the way to go for such an ingrate as your self after ALL the good and great blessings that the New Fangled Workbench has bestowed upon you. How dare you question the eternal perfection of the all mighty New Fangled Workbench.
Of course the words blasphemer, heretic, nonbeliever etc would be flying with great abandon and I am sorry to say you would not escape with your person in one piece and your life would not be worth a bean.
Please . . . before it is too late . . . I beg of you . . . abandon this . . . satanic questioning of the flatness of the great and all powerful, all knowing, benevolent New Fangled Workbench. It is flat from the beginning of all time. It will always be flat. There is no need to check that it is flat. It IS FLAT. To question this is to show lack of faith. Lack of faith is the worst of the sins.
Return to your former humble bearing ! Return to the fold ! Disaster is neigh !
Quit this irreverent path you have set foot on ! Beyond this point there is much danger and gnashing of teeth.
Politicians , Sled Dogs (the latter could teach the former much)
Perhaps if we didn't feed the politicians until they got us back home the message might be received by them. You know like a falcon. If you want it to hunt for you you keep it hungry. No new Mercedes, or caviar for that matter, until the rest of us eat. Send them notices that their electricity will be cut off on such and such a date if they don't all learn to pull together IN ONE DIRECTION by that time. If they want to continue this silliness then they can sit in the dark by candle light and shave with strait razors and read to each other rather than watch their huge screen TVs for entertainment.
> it will be finished when Hades freezes over, at this rate.<
Well sounds like it may be far enough along to make things on if you have a top surface about there so that is the main thing.
Aah
>Fire Plug<
I always wondered. I thought it was like . . . you really loved your dog ( indoor fire plug ; in the shop no less ) and you had a particularly enthusiastic customer that day ( who was explaining just how much they liked the work you had done for them ). Looked to me like you were listening attentively while setting boundries of your own. Like any good business person.
: )
Finished NFWB
Very kind, you guys.
Dave
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