Replies

1. 
   georgek | Jan 30, 2005 05:55pm | #1

   Are you planning on using 3" Ipe? Does Owl even have it? Never seen it there. They have some very good looking African mahogany up to 4 1/2" thick!

   I'd go with a 12 panel door, raised panels.

   I built and installed two 36" Oak doors W/glass and two 16" side lites for a house in Morton Grove. This was in December 18(?) remember the wind chill was 25 below? Now I'm waiting for summer and I expect a call back for sure!

   When I develope the film I'll post a picture, no digitamal stuff here :)

1. 
   WillGeorge | Jan 30, 2005 06:34pm | #2

   Are you planning on using 3" Ipe? Does Owl even have it?

   Geee..  I thought they had everything or could get it!

   Laminate to size then..

   About 3 inches was the original door. I am replacing ALL the wood including the frames so not sure it matters.. I saw some 4X4 posts I could rip.. But then again I never ripped IPE!

   I was thinking more along the use of Cypress and Ipe in the same 'Space'

    Edit again..   4X4 not at Owl..  I saw online someplace...

   Edited 1/30/2005 10:36 am ET by Will George

   Edited 1/30/2005 10:39 am ET by Will George

1. 
   georgek | Jan 31, 2005 04:02am | #8

   They don't have everything, I asked them to bring in some olive and they wouldn't, not cost effective. They told me to order online.

   I'm not sure what you mean by placing the cypress and ipe in the same space? For expansion purposes, I recommend you build the door frame and panel. Ipe for the frame and cypress for the panels. Do you use a shaper? It's pretty hard to do on a router table but it can be done. Also, pin the tenons, maybe with some cypress for contrast.

   Since you are building everything from scratch, stick with 1 3/4" doors, start with 9/4 stock. This way you'll have many more choises available for hardware.

   Hope I've helped.

   P.S How about making the door with the bubinga that's in the front of the store, seen it?

1. 
   WillGeorge | Jan 31, 2005 05:20am | #9

   I need to keep it the same thickness BECAUSE of the existing Hinges and Lock.

   It looks like REALLY expensive stuff. It all looks hand forged .. even the guts of the lock.. I could be wrong but I did take the lock out to see what I had there. I did that because the key is BIG.. Sort of like a key for a jail or something. I have no idea where it came from.

   The hinges are Iron with brass/bronze bearings? (I need to make new bearings). Three on the door and they are about 7 inches long. Not sure why the bearings are worn because I believe the door is hardly ever used. The side door is usually used.

   Maybe it is a 'Blast' door from the 1950's cold war scare?

    

   I forgot..  bubinga? I thought that was wood that is sort of like purple-heart?

   Edited 1/30/2005 9:22 pm ET by Will George

1. 
   georgek | Jan 31, 2005 05:24pm | #11

   Good idea to keep the lock set and hinges, I love those old keys!

   If you walk into Owl, those two 20' slabs chained to the wall are Bubinga, I think they wanted $1000 each!

2. 
   jpat | Jan 30, 2005 07:11pm | #3

   Hello all,

   Ipe is relatively stable, but as you know all wood moves,I think it will make a good door. It's all about getting the right fit and using the correct weather striping. I have made several outdoor pieces chairs,tables etc. they have all held together very well. Some are finished some have been left to weather. The ends of the weathered boards are prone to checking.

1. 
   WillGeorge | Jan 30, 2005 07:56pm | #4

   Thanks..

   But her door has NO stripping and can't feel any wind coming in.. How they do that?  I see a Taper around the door and frame. Now that ya mention it..  I have (PIC) and have to go back fer a close look..

   Edited 1/30/2005 12:00 pm ET by Will George

1. 
   jpat | Jan 30, 2005 08:22pm | #5

   Hmmm an exterior door with no weather stripping... I would still install it in the new one.

   I think the taper you speak of is actually the "door bevel".   When a door swings on it's hinges it need to have this bevel to clear the latch side of the frame. This bevel only needs to be a few degrees.  On a 3" door it will be noticeable on a 3/4 inch cabinet door it should still be there but much less noticeable.

   I learned my trade from my father, (an old timer)  In the old days doors that were hung by hand were beveled on both sides (hinge and lock) so that the door actually fit into the frame as a wedge, not tightness but in shape.  The bevel on the hinge side allowed the door to close without binding on the frame and the bevel on the lock side gave the door clearance to swing past the frame.

1. 
   WillGeorge | Jan 30, 2005 08:25pm | #6

   Taper is on the Door and FRAME.. TOP and sides.. I have never seen that before..

   I glad you made me look closer..

1. 
   jpat | Jan 30, 2005 08:34pm | #7

   Well I have been doing this for along time and I too have never seen that !

   But if you are going to be making a new frame as well, you can make it the way you want, if not you have to make it to match the existing frame..... good luck ! 

3. 
   Ridge | Jan 31, 2005 04:59pm | #10

   Will,

    

   In the architectural millwork world, most "Premium" stile and rail doors are made using glued up block core rails and stiles with thick (1/8"+) veneer faces.  The attached page from the AWI Quality Standards, shows various methods of fabricating stiles & rails.  I prefer the "low density lumber core, veneered" example for exterior doors.  Done properly, using waterproof glue these rails and stiles are very stable and will remain straight even with the severe stress that exterior doors must endure (high temperature and humidity variation between the inside and outside faces).  I have always used a soft pine core, as this seems to be quite stable and somewhat rot resistant.  I suppose one could use western cedar, cypress or redwood if extreme humidity is an issue. 

   The other great benefit is the ability to make thick (3" +) doors from 4/4 lumber.  Also, since the face veneers are normally resawn from 4/4 material, they can be bookmatched on the stiles (and rails).  If you use the same specie for the outer blocks of the rail/stile glue up as used for the face veneers, the final product will appear to be made from solid wood (but better). 

   Of course there is additional labor and care involved in producing low density lumber core stile and rails, but the end product is far superior to solid.  Trust me on this! 

      

   
1. 
   WillGeorge | Feb 04, 2005 03:44am | #15

   Thanks.. I downloaded the drawing... I can use all the help I can get!I gave up on IPE' and LYPTUS I can't find in any thickness I want..DANG! Guess it's OAK now! LOL.. Life is really hard for a woodworker!Edited 2/4/2005 12:40 pm ET by Will George

   Edited 2/4/2005 12:41 pm ET by Will George

4. 
   DougF | Jan 31, 2005 05:45pm | #12

   Will,

   In climates with large temperature and humidly shifts, I have read of a technique for minimizing the panel movement that seems logical:  build two sets of panels, interior and exterior.  The uneven expansion and contraction of exterior door panels are caused by the temperature differential on each side of the panel.  The 2-panel system allows each to acclimatize without affecting the other.  Since the door you are building is sufficiently thick, the two panels would work nicely and there should be sufficient room to install a rigid vapor barrier as well.

   Seems like an interesting project.  

   Doug

5. 
   douglas2cats | Jan 31, 2005 05:46pm | #13

   I've built a fair amount of outdoor furniture out of Ipe, but it wouldn't be my first choice for a door.

   It has a tendency to develop small surface checks as it dries. That shouldn't be a problem if you keep a good finish on it, but ....

   It's pretty particular as to what finish will work over it. I've seen threads suggesting that folks have gotten good results using Penofin or Waterlox. I saw recommendations for using Sikkens Cetol when I did my projects. Can't say I was overly satisfied with the Sikkens. Anything the homeowner tried to use down the road for normal maintainence isn't likely to work.

   It's not the easiest stuff to glue, so laminating thicker stock could pose a problem. Cheaper 5-min type epoxies and marine adhesive/sealers DONT work very well.

   It's going to significantly add to the weight of the door.

   I've heard of more snapped off screw problems driving into Ipe that any other wood I know of. The right pilot hole size is critical with Ipe. So hanging the door could be an adventure. The good news is, if you're successful, those screws will probably never loosen up on you.

   On the positive side -

   The door would probably outlast the house and survive a tsunami.

   You don't really need to use finish on it if you don't mind the surface checking.

   Any burglar that tries to break the door down is likely to need his shoulder checked out at the nearest hospital.

    

    

   I love the smell of sawdust in the morning.

6. 
   Ardito | Jan 31, 2005 09:23pm | #14

   I think that Ipe will be too heavy.  If you want the door to be 3" thick....Man o' Man that is going to be heavy!  My front door is an old Mahogany door that was taken out of a church.  It is easily 50-60 years old and looks fantastic.  It too is pushing almost 3" thick.  I know how much the Mahogany door weighs and just can't imagine a Ipe door even thicker. 

   just my $.02

   Dark Magneto