Just joined today. Hi all. Was reading through some of the posts here and found quite a bit of stuff on politics and poutine in one of the threads and almost decided to get the heck outta here before I read some more and discovered that there is more here than that. I don’t like forums that wander too much it wastes my time.
So I’ll get to the point I am here to learn about wood working more or less from the ground up my budget is next to nil but my determination can move mountains. I have some experience with WW tools and I know some of the language of the wood worker. I have done layout on a timberframe and some of the joinery. I have also worked on stick frames I have also worked on cabinetry a very long time ago.
Two things interest me the first is carving and the second is functionality. I would like to design, build, and decorativley carve boxes and chests. I needed to start some place so I have started with the carving side of things first because that just needs me a sharp knife and a piece of wood to start. (so I thought) Put in an order for some decent sharpening stones from LeeValley last week finally not carving anymore til they get here and I get my tools sharp! Learning the hard way hurts sometimes and my hand should be healed completely by the time the stones show up and I get around to sharpening things. Anyhow thats kinda where I’m at now.
Anyone with some sage advise is welcome to give it I can only promise to read it not to follow it I still enjoy learning the hard way sometimes.
Joe
Replies
Welcome Joe, Its always good to meet new people. Ask anything I'll help if I can.
Welcome Joe. There is a wealth of information on this site in terms of articles and videos. Search through the site to see what is here.
As for woodworking forums, I enjoy the Sawmill Creek bunch at http://www.sawmillcreek.org/. That forum is better organized than this one and there are some excellent woodworkers on there who are very friendly and helpful.
Correct me if I am wrong. Did you just suggest he go to a different forum?
Doug Meyer
He did, didn't he ?C.
I did a double-take on that post too! I guess that's his way of saying that we're nasty bunch of un-professionals who aren't very helpful either. Let's go over there and ruin another site...
David Ring
http://www.touchwood.co.il/?id=1&lang=e
Strange thing is I have read that site a bit. It is ok, but I like it here. I also do not like the interface of that site but I like this one. So to each his/her own. That is why they make chocolate and vanilla.
Doug Meyer
Yes, This IS a strange thread. First, the OP expresses his dislike for certain aspects of this forum, tells us his preferences for the way he thinks things should be run here, then he tells us we are "welcome" to give him sage advise which he won't feel compelled to follow. Maybe it's just as well someone else directed him to another website?! Rich
Humm, missed that last part of the original post as I don't do carvings and such as the OPer was talking about.
Of course if most of us were honest we would admit that a lot of the advise we get is ignored. Of course a lot of the advise we get should be ignored! :) The problem is figuring out what to ignore and what to take to hart.
Still another point of view around here would not hurt so I say welcome aboard, and my only advise is to stay away from the posts that dont interst you.
Doug Meyer
most of the advice we get in life is ignored just due to the shear volume available. i guess most of us like it here on knots or we wouldn't keep coming back voluntarily day after day. i like "wasting" my time here.
I guess it sounds like they don't want to talk or listen to us, I think we all lose.
Well, at least we haven't ripped on him yet for using improper grammer and punctuation. His spelling seems to have passed muster and he doesn't seem impertinent.
I guess he'll do.
I spent a fortune on deodorant until I finally realized that people didn't like me anyway.
"and he doesn't seem impertinent." (No?)
Doh!
I spent a fortune on deodorant until I finally realized that people didn't like me anyway.
Chuck,If you want to go there, it's "grammar" !C.
Thanks for the welcome and the advice I'll use what I can.
The running commentary was interesting enough to. As far as grammar and spelling goes I did not learn to read or write until after I quit school (grade 9) and I am self taught so sorry for the inconvenience of having to struggle through my illiterate posts. I am thankful that WW does not require a high level of literacy or intelligence just desire and creativity both of which I have in spades.
Here is a list of my current resources. I have acquired some carving chisels and will be getting some chip carving knives from Lee Valley next paycheck. I have a most of the basic hand tools that a handy man would have plus a few more. No shop to work in ATM. I do have limited access to a wood shop with about 25k worth of equipment that is well set up and is not being used at this time. It belongs to a local agency that helps adults and teens who have barriers to employment and in order to use it I would have to manage it and teach their clients. Seeing how I have not learned WW myself yet I feel it would be criminal to try to teach others some of who have some severe handicaps. I have access to a property where I could build a shop this summer and probably will with the help of the owner.
Here is my plan at this time. I plan to start teaching myself to carve through reading books I have, some trial and error, and hopefully some help from here. I am hoping to find some one who carves close to here that would be willing to teach me in exchange for my labor. This summer when I have acquired a few more tools I plan to learn how to build simple small projects. (not sure what yet) Once I get some confidence at both I will combine the two. That's it for the near future. Ultimately I hope to be able to create unique fine furniture type art and sell it to support my addiction to wood.
Thanks for any more advice you may have for the aspiring artisan.
Joe
I have been carving for a number of years and I started with chip carving because it's easy to do and you can produce neat looking projects almost from the start. Wayne Barton is considered one of the premier chip carvers in the world. If you buy one of his books on chip carving (available from most of the catalogs) you will be able to pick up the technique quickly.
In the old days, apprentice carvers started out chip carving to get an understanding of how to carve in what is basically two dimensions. Once they were proficient at that, they moved on to more advanced carving.
When I started I did the whole Wayne Barton thing. I bought his knife and found that I preferred it to others I bought later. He also sells a "stab knife," but I rarely used it.
Relief carving and carving in the round (3 dimensional carving) is more difficult to learn and requires a larger investment in tools.
Many areas of the country have woodcarving clubs and they can be a source of good information and hands-on instruction. Hope this helps.
Thanks for the info Jim.
Got my stones and started to use them holy sharpness started on my kitchen knives and was amazed at what a difference a good stone makes. Will do all my straight edged tools first before I try it out on the gouges. I have no slips but will make one using sand paper and a dowel. 4000x plus a strop and jewelers rouge makes for a very nice edge I begin to understand why I cut myself with a tool I only thought was sharp. I now have a couple shop stones 200x a combination india oil stone and a 1000/4000x combination water stone and the strop and rouge. I am thinking of getting one more stone above 4000 grit any thoughts? I was looking at a ceramic 9000x stone.
Thanks for the imput
Joe
Joe:
I have an 8000 grit waterstone as well. It puts a nice shiny finish on the edge.
Jim
Jim do you find it nescessary to go beyond the 4000x range if so does it make a big difference? I could see right away with the 4000x stone that I was spending my money wisely. I do understand the process involved in sharpening but reading about it and doing it are worlds apart. Your experience with the 8000x stone will be apreciated.
Thanks Joe
Joe:
You don't need to go to the 8000 stone right away if you don't want to. The 4000 should put a nice sharp edge on the tools for you. In time you might want to pick up one of the 8000's because it further refines the edge.
By the way, if you are sharpening plane blades or chisels you should lap the back of the blade first. This simply means that you rub the back of the blade with the stones until it is perfectly flat and shiny. You don't need to do the whole back...just the bottom inch or so. You should only have to do this the first time you sharpen them. Then sharpen the bevel with increasingly fine stones. Gauges are a little trickier since the backs aren't flat, but you should use a slipstone to create an inside bevel that meets the outside bevel at the edge of the tool. There are lots of articles in FW on sharpening that can help.
Jim
Gijoe,
Your initial post generated lots and lots of comments that have nothing to do with woodworking, so I guess you didn't read them and that is always your choice. I can talk about poutine and I can talk about wood and talk about tools and all kinds of stuff. It all depends where the exchange with others takes me. Sorry if you found it a turn off, and you are always welcome not to read it. Don't boycott the forums just yet, give it a chance and let's see if you fall into the nonsense trap once or twice. Who knows, you may even like it now and then. It is a way to wind down after a long day of sweating in the woodshop; and I find that a valid participation.
From a woodworker who can talk about something else occasionally and usually spells it right, thanks to the mighty spell check, enjoy your next project. JL
Edited 1/17/2007 10:21 pm ET by jeanlou
JL,
I have to read them because they are in my thread but there are enough posts in this thread containing helpful content that it pays me back for the time wasters. Time is the one resource that is not renewable and as such is the one I place the most value on so I spend it wisley as I can and I resent when others try to waste it. A lot of people don't get that simple concept and frankly I have little time or patience for explaining it in any detail.
Joe
Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa GI Joe. Forgive me for wasting your time. I will make sure never to make that mistake again and stay out of any threads you generate. This will be the last, since I had to post to be able to communicate this. JL
Gijoe, Do you practice being insulting, or are you a natural at this?
Rich I am a natural apparently as it was not my intention to insult anyone.
I am amazed that my posts have caused such a stir and had just put it down to the types who frequent places like this that have nothing positive to add to the forum but have all the time in the world to shoot at other folks. Maybe I am wrong in that assumption. I came here to learn more about WW and to find others who share my interest in WW not to start WWIII. My first post was a comment about the first thread I read when I found this site and was meant as an observation not a condemnation you notice I did join this site so obviously I find value in this forum. I don't really care if anyone here likes me or not I make friends where I find them and have no desire to cater to the crowd here in hopes of Maybe being alowed to belong to the group. I will fit or not some will like me some not. So here is the deal, I am done explaining myself.
Joe
Joe,Don't you think that since you are on the receiving side more than the giving one, a little humility would be "de rigueur" ?C.
A belated welcome.POUTINE, hey? The nearest word to that that I could come up with was PUTANA.... Anyway thanks to Google (and you) I now know what poutine is .
If you like wood and want to work it you first need to understand some basic facts about the nature of wood- I believe no woodworker should be without this book : "Understanding Wood-A Craftsman's Guide To Wood Technology" by R.Bruce Hoadley. It will save you a lot of trouble.Philip Marcou
Thanks Philip,
I googled the book and was able to read a few pages of the book and have added it to my list of "must haves". As it happens one of those pages that I read was in re to sharpening (Pgs 175-176) and although the technique used was not the one I use the explaination on micro beveling was edifying.
Joe
Doh! Doh!
I spent a fortune on deodorant until I finally realized that people didn't like me anyway.
Doug.............. Great logic!
Same reason they make 60 zillion auto makes and models.
Thank you for the link to the other site when looking for help or information more is usually better.
You're welcome. While some here weren't happy with me for providing the link, You're right. More information is better. I hang out on several forums on a regular basis. For woodworking I find this one and the Sawmill Creek forums to be the "best," but having said that, I do pick up some good information on others.
It's amazing what's out there. I remember well the days when we were all cloistered in our shops with little connection to the "outside world." The Internet has changed all that. While much of the information available today isn't worth much, being able to communicate with other craftsman and see pictures of their work is priceless. Even magazines like FineWoodworking, as good as it is, can't compete so they got smart and created this site.
Welcome Joe,
This is a great place to get help or ideas. Do we get of topic from time to time? Yup. But here's alot of experiance form all around the world in these threads.
Again, Welcome.
Hey welcome joe, I,m fairly new here also to the forum, not woodworking. to start carving, my advise to you would be to get a couple of swiss made phifl carving chisels. a V groove, a skew. a shallow gouge. Find a nice chip carving design you like and maybe a little book and start having some fun. The main reason to get the swissmade chisels, I think its spelled phiefl, usually found at "woodcraft" I think they have a website. Anyway as I was saying these chisels come razor sharp from the factory and stay sharp for a while "surgical steel" They are brittle, but for learning to carve you need to know how sharp a chisel must be to start with or you may become frustrated with your efforts and shelve the whole thing. Good luck on your inspirations and where they may lead you.
Hi Joe,
Two things:
- Making and Mastering Wood planes: a great intro mastering all the tools you'll need to make the ultimate tool, a handplane, and
- Making a woodworking bench: the 2nd most important tool you'll ever own, next to your collection of planes.
These should put your motivation to good use. A disclaimer: I'm a hobbyist, not a professional woodworker, but looking back on 7 yrs as such, these are the two things I wish I had known about first.
Rob
Thanks for the links Rob I DL'd the workbench instructions and put the book on my need to get list it is a big list but I tend to buy the more affordable stuff first.
Joe
Edited 1/17/2007 10:51 pm ET by Gijoe
I can live without politics but not without poutine.
In one of your replies you said...
"I am thankful that WW does not require a high level of literacy or intelligence just desire and creativity both of which I have in spades."
I disagree that with you in that WW does require a high degree of intelligence. Sure almost anyone can bang together a sort of square plywood box using a few nails, but I don't think you'll find those types here on this forum. You're more likely to find people who are at various stages of honing their skills and people seeking advice on how to overcome obstacles or opinions on doing something more effectively and efficiently. One of the ways that everyone here does that is by reading and understanding (which is a pretty good definition of literacy AFAIK).
So pat yourself on the back, not only do you have desire and creativity, you actually DO have intelligence and literacy as well.
Cheers
Thanks for the compliment CB.
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