Good news all!
I have decided (and have the down payment) to buy a new shop…er I mean House. One of the main reasons for this is the lack of current shop. Anyway, I know there is a lot of good advice to get in this forum on finding a house with a work area conductive to woodworking, so what do you suggest?
The current thinking is to get a 2-car garage that will not shelter any vehicles, except maybe in the freezing cold, so I can have that to work in. I will have to insulate it, and maybe put in a skylight. Perhaps a shack behind it for dust collection. What should I look for, and what should I avoid?
Thanks in advance,
Tom
Replies
Congratulations! I know you will enjoy having a dedicated space to work. You have asked a question that could fill volumes. In fact, there are indeed publications that address this specific concern--not to mention the latest FWW Tools & Techniques issue with some great shops spotlighted.
Do your homework. In the same spirit as "You can't have too much money, bandwidth, etc." you will need plenty of LIGHT and POWER. For a 2-car garage you should have at least 150 amp electric service with plenty of outlets. Spread the outlets around the shop in strategic areas AFTER you do your design and layout on paper. Will you need 220V service?
For electric lights you will need about 8 flourescent fixtures PLUS good spot lighting for detail work--bandsaw, chop saw, router table, etc.
Natural light from the north is wonderful--add windows if you can.
Plan for a work flow that includes raw wood coming into the shop and finished work going out. Make sure you can handle 4X8 sheet goods. (I often work outside to do rough cutting with a skill saw on sawhorses to minimize moving heavy MDF sheets.)
What fun! Post photos as you progress.
Bert
Things to consider for your shop:
A major item is dust collection and air filtration. This will not only keep your shop clean but also your lungs. What type (permanent installation or portable) will you use and where will you place the unit?
Lighting is important as well, I have 9 quad florescent fixtures and 3 incandescent in my shop which is about 22'x23' and there are times I'd like more.
Heating or cooling is another issue, if no other reason than for your comfort. I can get by with a window heatpump but that would be inadequate in a colder climate.
What tools you own or will buy in the future will help you determine the amount of power you'll need. Always plan on more than you think you'll ever require. I have a 240vac 60 amp service I installed 6 years ago and to date haven't had need for more than that. I don't have more than 3 tools and lights going at any one time. Just be sure to split your circuits. I don't normally place but about 50% load on my 120volt 20 amp circuits and 75% on the 240 volt 30 amp circuits.
If you're building from scratch, I'd recommend 10' ceilings. Mine are 9' but frequently I could use the extra footage.
Storage - It seems that there is never sufficient room for those extra left over pieces of wood from projects and I hate to discard something I know will come in handy "some day".
I made paper cutouts to scale when I sized my shop and thought there was more room than I'd need but as time has passed and my tool collection grown, I wish I had twice the space. Nearly everything I have is mobile so I can move things around quite easily to give more space and make the work flow better depending on the project I'm working on at the moment.
Have fun, good luck in your building, I'm sure you'll get lots of advice and what works well for one person will not be the optimum for another.
Roger
The DC is likely to eventually go in a shack out back, and I will probably have to put in insulation, skylights, and electricity (as in original post). I am buying an existing house though. I'm not sure if I made that clear, so I probably won't be able to specify the height of the ceiling joists; but most have somewhat gabled roofs on the garages, so I might be okay.
I was more wondering what I can look for in the existing building structure so as to minimize my pain in converting it into a shop. The actual conversion will come later. Room on the electrical panel for 120A service seems like one suggestion, and high ceilings are something you can't build in later. What else do you have to have up front?
Tom
Don't fret about having room on the electrical panel. It is inexpensive (and a better solution long-term) to add a new breaker box just for your shop.
Bert
Big,
None of these things are deal breakers. However, if connected to house, what is the access to water and waste for a slop sink. Also, can you run a seperate loop on the heating system for the garage. Lastly, I would look at the slope of the floor..and how much will need adjust.
Tom:
I have a detached shop to which I ran a 60amp 240vac service. I bought a 100amp box and swapped the main breaker for 60 amps. I did this so I'd have plenty of spare breakers. I have each of my light circuits on separate circuits as well the outlets on each of the 4 walls, they are all on different breakers. I have 3 240 outlets and again on different breakers.
Perhaps a little over kill but I hate to see lights dim when I turn on my saw. The suggested separate 120 amp panel adjacent to your main panel isn't a bad idea. In my case I don't see a need for it since I don't have but an AC unit, table saw, lights and dust collector on at one time. The max draw is about 37 - 40 amps.
You might also look at your flooring. There has been several suggestions on another forum to consider putting down a wooden deck over the concrete if for no other reason than foot and leg comfort.
Insulation on your role-up door is also a good idea.
Roger
It is around -4 here right now, so insulation sounds like a great idea to me...I have been pondering on how to insulate the overhead door, while still letting it operate. If I wind up with two single overheads, I would consider fixing one and using the other. But with a double overhead, I can't think of a good way to insulate it. Is this something you have done?
I will most probably have a concrete floor, so I am considering putting down sleeper 2x4 and plywood in the bench half, and leaving a machine area of painted concrete so I can still move my truck in when it gets too cold. Anti-Fatigue mats in front of the Bandsaw and jointer seem like a good compromise.
The electricity doesn't concern me too much. I have a hand in designing electrical systems for Army AC, so as long as I get proper service to the utility's meter, I'm golden. A shop subpanel will definitely be on the menu, but I might be content with less than 120A if that means not having to rip out the house box. I will probably put the lighting on two separate circuits, one on the existing house box, and one on the new shop subpanel. Its nice to only have half the lights on in the daytime, and separate circuits means no total blackout.
Thanks
Tom
Tom:
You can obtain precut panels from an overhead door company that handles the mfg. of your door. You can also get sheet Styrofoam and cut it to size and glue it in place.
Roger
On the overhead door - call someone who services doors in your area, esp if you can find someone who installs your brand. Not that you have to have them do the work, but free advice. I have discovered that some overhead door mfgrs leave the insulation part about as simple as can be - an aftermarket kit that you install yourself goes for less than $100.
The flip side is, if you're unlucky, your door manufacturer built things by different rules and while they sell kits, the insulation and metal add up to enough additional weight that they also recommend changing the original (assume wimpy) springs. My door was a Waynemark brand, and that was the scenario I ran into. Then it became about $300 to insulate a 16x7. Heck, that's almost half of a new door.
" Clothes make the man. Naked people have litte or no influence in society" - Mark Twain
Have em put 110V outlets on every stud, and a 220V outlet on each wall! Might as well put a few 110V outlets in the ceiling too! Outlets are like clamps - never have enough!
Come off the electric meter to a disconnect box then to a breaker panel in the shop. Don't run your tools through the main breaker for the house. (check local codes first)
Oh yeah, don't worry to much about the placement of your tools. After 6 months of use they will have migrated to their most useful spot. Of course, every time you buy a new floor tool, you'll go through the same dance again.
Have fun!
PlaneWood by Mike_in_Katy
PlaneWood
Thanks Herg and PlaneWood!
I've already designed my shop tool placement, and I don't even have the house yet (maybe a contract this week though). So, yeah, them tools gon' be skippin 'round!
TC
Tom
buy a house with enough room to add a proper shop at some later date.. converted garages will always leave you short. standing on the concrete floor is a pain in the back, dropping tools onto concrete sucks, and as been pointed out you will never have enough electrical/ space to be really happy.
Your wife will really bitch if her car needs to stay outside while a few sheets of plywood stay warm and dry.
garages are for cars not for wood shops..
At some point it will be nice to build your dream shop! make sure ther is room!
Frenchy -
You obviously have never seen a Texas garage!! :)
PlaneWood by Mike_in_KatyPlaneWood
>...never seen a Texas garage!!
I have and usually they're not full of planers and saws but full of old ford mustangs sitting up on blocks.Half of good living is staying out of bad situations.
The other...proper application of risk.
Speaking of big garages -
My mom and sis live in Lake Havasu City, AZ. That place has one heck of a house building boom underway. Mostly by people retiring there.
Anyway, it's not uncommon to see 3 car garages there with a motor home garage on the side.
Chuck Norris (the Texas Ranger TV guy) has a home there that has a 6 car garage and a 3 motor home garage! His garages probably are 3 times the size of my house!
I was there a couple of summers ago when the temp hit 120 degrees. The brain just kinda cooks.
PlaneWood by Mike_in_KatyPlaneWood
I sold my 66 Mustang when I moved to Texas in 87. Paid $1500 and a 57 chevy 2 door Belair for it in Jan 66. Wish I had either one back now.
My 66 was a little unusual. It was an automatic shift, 6 cylinder, with a bench seat in front.
I had a OK Highway Patrolman riding in it with me once. He asked me what it'd do. At 105 mph, he said "OK, that's good!" It was still accelerating at 105.
Beautiful day here. 67 degrees and sunny. Now back to work.
PlaneWood by Mike_in_KatyPlaneWood
Former '66er here. I drove that puppy forever. Bench seat? Wow! I never even imagined that in a '66 Mustang. I had the 289 version. I think it would easily have done 105 but the steering gets a little squirlly (scary) at those speeds in those old cars.
jdg
Maybe you didn't read my original post...
The shop WILL be in the garage. I have no other choice. I will run a subpanel out to the garage; even though I am a neanderthal, we still need your fire-bulbs. I Will put down a wood floor on top of the concrete. It is easy and inexpensive. And my girlfriend will probably spend more time in the shop than me.
Tom
I understood that,, the question is, is there room for a real shop on the property?
garages sux as shops (except if you have nothing else) If you still want to use it as a shop forever, plan on building another garage at some point in the future. keeping cars outside is tough on cars and harder on yourself once you start to get a little grey hair..
Of course this could be a starter home and you'll move into a real shop er, home later....
Sorry I kind of snapped at you yesterday, we were negotiating the price of the house I just bought. YAY! It has a lot of property with it, and it only has a one car garage, so I might be building another structure on the property some time in the future. The option there might be to keep the old on or not. None the less, the second structure would be a 'garage' in construction. I don't want cars in my shop, and I agree that a dedicated space is better, but I can't afford to build a strict shop which would add nothing to reslae value.
Tom
Congradulations on the house purchase..
Now go buy some green rough sawn wood at a saw mill and sticker it up so when it's air dried you have plenty of wood to play with and don't need to pay those silly retail prices!
My two cents about the electric system. I did place several 110 V outlets in the ceiling in two wooden boxes above the benchwork. High enough that I can reach to plug sanders, drils etc. They do not interfere with the placement of power tools and the cord coming from the ceiling is one less thing to trip over. My workbench consists of four metal tool cabinets (four drawer each) connected with bolts and covered with a big smooth fireproof wooden door (used $ 5) with a final layer of MDF.
It is so convenient to reach for drill, measuring tools, sandpaper etc, immediately below the bench.
Good Luck
John Cabot
Lots of information here but no one seems to have touched on one thing. Skylights--avoid 'em if you can. They're a great way to waste energy; prone to leaking, ice dams and storm damage; not standardized so replacement is a major expense; and provide limited and undependable light. Twenty years of general contracting led to a "skylight clause" in the contracts we offered. Our liability was limited to problems caused by improper installation as per the manufacturer's instructions. A couple times we documented installation with photographs because of poor location, design of skylights or the curbing design and we always kept copies of manufacturer warrantees and instructions. There were a number of projects we declined to bid for because of skylights.
My advise would be to carefully weigh the limited advantages and huge risks involved with skylights. I would never install them in a building I owned.
Edited 1/29/2003 11:40:16 AM ET by Larry Williams
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