Hello everybody,
I’ve just had my website go live, and would appreciate some feedback (the designers have done a pretty good job, but I feel like I’m a bit to close to it to be objective). Feel free to press all of the arrows, but I won’t give any more hints, as I’d like to see what hurdles you come up with.
Thanks for taking the time, it does take a bit in the loading.
Regards,
Roy
Replies
Roy, I know that your web-designer wants to show-off their talents, and maybe some people won't mind waiting for that much delay to load, but I would imagine that you are going to loose some viewers before they ever get in.
I didn't like the up, down r & l arrows not giving any clue to where they are taking you, and then not having that change throughout.
While I like the perspective of using that super-wide lens for some of the photos, I would have liked to have seen other images of some of those same pieces. I honestly can 't tell if the last table and mirror is actually level, or if the legs are shorter on one end.
Otherwise, I like your work. those are nice clean well designed pieces.
I would second on the intro. The skip intro did not come up until after a long load. Nice stuff through. I myself, when give the opportunity, will skip fancy intro's. It took a while. I can imagine what it would have been like with dial-up. Dial-up is still out there.
3.4 Mb for an intro! Man. I'm on dial-up and it would take about 15 - 20 minutes just to get past the splash page. Get rid of it. Try and keep your images less than 100 kb. If you have a lot of images per page then compress them and use thumbnails that are @25-35 kb.
Like someone else said. Some folks only have access to dial-up so keep it simple.
I did not look at the site, sorry. But as soon as I saw the huge intro I bailed.
J.P.
hi,
the intro will discourage a lot of people from visiting - especially returning. once you've seen it - it just becomes a delay after that, and worse, extremely annoying!
i found i had some difficulty in navigating and trying to get back to the 'home' page - especially from the 'fine woodwork' and 'contact' page - there is no direct link back to home - it would be nice to see a 'home' link on each page. the arrows are great if you are very familiar with the website, but i found i really didn't know where i was most of the time.
other than those points, which are easily modified if you choose to do them, the website is good - nice content and well layed out.
Rick in Cowichan Bay, B.C. - 50km north of Victoria, B.C.
My Website: http://www.rickswoodworking.ca
i like it, but i found the navigation to be somewhat frustrating with the arrows...it's like your caught in a maze...it's different and novel, but after trying to find you way back to the home page a few times it got annoying...
how about a bar that is always on the left side with links to the main pages...that would let you jump around more easily...keep the arrows as well if you want they are kind of neat...
great pictures...they look fantastic...i like the silhouettes to select the project, and i like the details...
overall the graphics are great, i think the intro is very nice, although kind of large, glad to see a skip intro button for future visits....
I think that roughly dimensioned sketches of the pieces would be of value to prospective clients and would fit in well with your overall design...would add an arguably needed counterpoint to your more artistic photos...
Dump the intro. On dial up it takes forever. When I first saw that amateurish hand drawn sketch and it was taking forever to load I quickly dismissed the page. Andy Warhol said you get 15 minutes of fame. With the web you get 15 seconds and it's over. Your website should be tested on all browsers as well. Prefer a back button to go to last screen. Should be able to navigate from any page to any other page.
Most of the pictures were too dark and too much contrast. Most of the photos don't do the piece justice. The photo angle for the desk doesn't work for me. Didn't care for the arrows. Try http://www.silaskopf.com Not saying it's the best website but it certainly is more navigable.
Sorry, but the website needs much revision in my opinion. I found it really irritating to navigate around and found it tainted the view of the furniture.
BTW I did find the furniture very interesting and liked much of it and would have liked to see detailed closeups on some pieces.
I would not put any links to other woodworking sites if you are using your site to market your work. I'd do stuff on sustainable woods and related stuff.
Edited 6/26/2006 12:41 pm ET by RickL
Edited 6/26/2006 1:06 pm ET by RickL
Wow! Your site design is getting hammered pretty good. And, I'm sorry to pile on a bit, but I have to agree in general with most of the previous comments. This is probably not what you want to hear, but in the long run should be helpful, if painful.
As I said, I agree with most of the previous comments -- long intro (with no skip option), confusing navigation arrows etc. I found the white text on the About Me page difficult to read off the black background and the other links are barely visible. All in all, a very cumbersome site.
But aside from specifics, I don't think the site graphics in general, have any relationship to your work, or worse, detract from it. I'm not saying you can't look current and cool, but I don't think the site is performing its intended task -- to promote you, your image, and what you make. I'm a graphic designer and I understand that sometimes it's easy to get distracted by the design and lose sight of its intended goal, but that's no excuse for a design solution to fail.
I think your work is superb and deserves a site that will support and promote it more effectively. I do disagree with a previous reply on the photography. I think it's very good and illustrates your work quite nicely.
Anyway, I think it's back to the drawing board.
I agree that you have to have a little chat with your developer. I have high a speed connection and it only loaded 31% in about 10 minutes.
My site isn't very fancy and I'm still working on the text but it's
100% free from Microsoft and very easy to navigate.
pins
The Furniture Shop
http://www.centralvafurnitureshop.com
then your "high speed connection" isn't...the intro loads in about 10-15 seconds with a decent connection...still thats longer than i would like to wait...
I suppose 'hi-speed' is relative. I have hughes.net satellite and today our weather is not good. I loaded the page up to the 'skip intro' part, starting from 31% (which was apparently stored in memory) where I aborted it and from 31% to 'skip intro took 3 minutes and 35 seconds.My point is valid. You probably have DLS or somesuch but most of the world does not, because, as with me, Verizon will only bring DLS to us in the boonies if they are forced to by law. They concentrate on the densely populated areas, discounting as low as $14.95, while ingnoring the commoners.pins
Also, particularly when you're not serving your page from a server farm, there are often vast performance differences from hour to hour, and also depending on how traffic is routed from the source to you.
In any case, your point is unassailable: A page that requires a huge download to start, will cause many people to give up in frustration. It's not important that it's because of a generally slow connection from you to your ISP, or a transient condition that inhibits transfer from the hosting server to your ISP (and on to you).
At a minimum, if I were to have such a complicated front page, I would have a "skip this intro" link that shows up immediately.My goal is for my work to outlast me. Expect my joinery to get simpler as time goes by.
Verizon will only bring DLS to us in the boonies if they are forced to by law. They concentrate on the densely populated areas, discounting as low as $14.95, while ingnoring the commoners.
They're not "ignoring" anyone. DSL (not DLS) has a technical limitation wherein it only works within 10,000 feet or so of the Central Office (CO). If you're out in the boonies, what are the chances you live within less than 2 miles from your telephone company's CO? They're not being evil by not ignoring the laws of physics.
The crappy unshielded twisted pair wiring devised in the early 1900s for telephones with a bandwidth of 4 kHz simply wasn't designed for high-speed data connections.
If you're far away from town, your probable options for broadband are cable and satellite.
I only got 1/2 way through the loading... and bailed. Not many will wait it out especially with a dialup connection. Keep it simple and fast.
http://www.superwoodworks.com
Head,
I must have a big pipe!
I loaded your site in less than 30 seconds (I watched the screen clock). I navigated all the photos in a couple of minutes, as each one loaded instantaneously.
I like the graphics and navigation too - its intuitive, in my view. I managed to look at the whole site in 10 minutes, including a good bit of reading/viewing. But the great majority of people seem not to have the big pipe, so I think your web designer might be one of them idealist fellahs. ("Hasn't everyone got a big pipe"? he wonders, in a surprised voice).
Minced Media - very droll. :-) I like a lot of the other stuff, although I might be frightened to have one or two of them in the house as they look - alive! Also, if you have a piece that has a large sculptural component, it starts to demand that everything else in the room is a good. (But this is probably your cunning sales plan).
Lataxe,
(Courtesy of his ladywife's work connection, a fast thing if rather restrictive security-wise - you can't even swear. Can't complain. Ater all, I did write that security policy, when I were a wage slave at the very same place. (Am I rambling? - I have had amber nectar).
Great response, and thankyou all for taking the trouble. Now please take this tongue in cheek, but leave it to a forum such as this to tell it as it really is. I deliberated for some time before deciding to throw my site to you, and I'm really pleased I did. All of your comments are valid, and I do apologize to those of you who are on dial up. I'm a real luddite when it comes to the internet, and I was more (still am) than happy to hand the reins over to my graphic guys. Geez Louise, I'm a woodworker...........there's just not enough time in the day to try to control all aspects.
So I'm going to take all of your comments, if its ok with you, back to my graphics guys, and see what we can do. Did anybody at all see the Australia v Italy game in the world cup? Shattered............absolutely shattered.
See you in the next chapter,
Roy
Hi Roy,
Let me start w/ the positives:
* I love your work!
* I think the pictures are overall well done. If you are going to spend the time with flash for your work, why not consider a 3-D rotational view for some select pieces?Now the not-so-positives:
* The arrows are not intuitive. Without trying them out, a person has no idea what to do. At least add "pop-up" tips that describe where to go.
* I believe the navagation is your number 1 problem. It's nice to be creative and such, but if I was an author for "webpagesthatsuck.com", you would have a top rating. *sorry*
* Flash is nice and fancy but no guarantee that the client has it installed. You should consider a "conventional" html/jpeg site as an alternative for those who don't want the fancy frills. Additionally, flash can't be navigated by anything but the mouse. While I am not the common web-user, I do tend to navigate a website quicker via keyboard shortcuts. Flash won't let me do that.
* When you click the down arrow for a portfolio piece, a user has limited options to get back. Maybe add optional links to the secondary pictures that move the view back up.
* Somebody commented already that some of the pictures have too much contrast. For example, I want to see the joinery in the "Parque bench" but it's so dark, I can't.
* Your intro loaded decently quick for me (on DSL) but I don't see the "value" of it. To put it bluntly, I care about the content on your site, not the fancy intro.
* If your flash intro is large, you may have to worry about your monthly bandwidth from your ISP.I wish you luck with working with your designers. They are very talented but they are also too contemporary. For the general public, you must "dumb-it-down."
"100 Years" -- scribbled on the wall by a woodworker to remind him to do his best and as a warranty on his work -- "If anything I make fails in the first hundred years, bring it back, and I'll take care of it. After that, there will be a small charge. (Original purchaser only)"
Sorry can't give you any input. I'm on dial-up and after 2 mins with nothing I leave.
Jack
Great site. The navigating arrows may not be obvious to those not used to cool sites. Perhaps they could be more.... obvious, without ruining the aestetic. Very, Very nice work. Your work is very origional, elegant and clean. I don't throw compliments like that around lightly.
Pardon my spelling,
Mike
Make sure that your next project is beyond your skill and requires tools you don't have. You won't regret it.
Overall, very nice...
Your mouseover (and non mouseover) shade of gray is TOO DARK a gray... on my computer, it almost disappears & in other non mouseovers, can't read them at all.
The first think I did was click "About"... got there... and couldn't go "Back"... didn't see any arrows, etc.
After getting back into it, I finally notice the arrows on right side... Maybe, if those arrows were bigger and WHITER (BOLDER) I may have noticed them sooner...
I think I'd change the mouseover to... No Over, BOLD White... Over, not bold white... keep it white... just not bold... You must be able to read it... yes?
Other than that, I think it looks GREAT!!
I do not like to tap in the dark.
Hilmar
Roy,
I have broadband, so it loaded instantly for me. I'm no genius, but the navigation was easy to figure out. I think the kind of people who would be interested in your furniture would be on the cutting edge, and would appreciate a cutting edge website. I do think you could have detail shots of the furniture taken in a more traditional style, in addition to the attention grabbing ones you already have. All in all, your site puts mine to shame.
Also, the Beton piece, says it is made of rockmaple veneer and concrete. What parts are made of concrete?
Rob Millard
http://www.americanfederalperiod.com
I'm going to have to go with all the negative posts here and say that this website is absolutely horrid. Sorry, no offense. The work is very interesting, but there's just not that much to see of it, between the few and tiny pictures provided.This website is a prime example of what's wrong with many commercial websites these days: they're made by prima donna web designers who only know how to use Flash, and overuse its annoying features extensively. For instance, the intro. Who actually looks at intros any more? They're a total waste of time, and they take forever to load. I want to see the "guts" of the website: what the business has to offer. I really don't care about seeing the contracted web designer's "cool" intro that he probably spent more time on than the whole rest of the site.After the intro, the rest of the site is bad too; weird navigation that follows no accepted standards or practices whatsoever; and sparse photography of the actual items in the gallery. My suggestion: refuse to pay that fool, and find a true professional, not some overpaid teenager, who knows how to design a real website. Write the website in simple, standard HTML, not Flash, so it works in everyone's browser without having to install third-party plugins or having to have a particular browser. It should work on Firefox on Linux as well as it works on Safari on a Mac. (This might be important: artsy people frequently use Macs instead of Windows PCs, and Safari is the standard browser there.) Dump the stupid intro. Organize the site logically. For each piece in your gallery, include several photographs, from different angles, so people can really see it.Don't let a crappy website screw up your business.
I'm just an amateur woodworker but I am a professional web developer and I have to agree with the previous comments about the site, especially with regard to navigation. The user is left to guess where the scratchy hand-drawn arrows are going to take them.
I suggest you ask your web guys to make the navigation controls much more obvious. They may think they are too cool to have a button labelled HOME on every page, but mere mortals will appreciate it a lot. If they want to keep the arrow design, adding tool-tips would help a lot. Tool-tips are when you hold your mouse pointer over the button and a little bubble with text in it appears. So, if you hold your mouse over the up-arrow button, a little bubble with the words "Return to Homepage" would appear. This tells the user exactly what they will get when they click the button.
I also have to agree with the previous comments about your work, it's beautiful! I did think the portfolio section was good, and the quality of the images of your woodwork is very good.
My major problem was that it was impossible to read the scripting on the black screen. The letters are much too small and thin. I had to open each section to see what it was about.
BTW, we will be visiting Australia and New Zealand for the month of Feb., 2007. Can I get more information about the woodworkers exhibit you mentioned? [email protected]. Thanks. Good luck
Splinterhead,
Others commented on your website. I wanted to say that I looked through your portfolio and you have a wonderful sense of design. You are a masterful woodworker. Keep up the great work. Also, your willingness to ask the FW webheads for feedback on your website is commendable and brave.
I read the part on your school of woodworking. Your teaching "style" seems to be of the old school. The student comes to you and you start them all off at the same level, regardless of their background and skills, and then when you think they are ready, you let them have some say over the course of their learning. Over the years I have morphed from an autocratic approach to an interactive one. Leaders and teachers can lead and teach better if they listen to those they are trying to influence. Read a book by Ivan Illich entitled "Deschooling Society". Ivan talks about the role of a School being to free the student from the need for a school, and the role of a Teacher being to free the student from the need for a Teacher. The more quickly that the student takes control of his/her own learning, the better. The student should learn to please himself, not the teacher. The teacher is his "hired help" for a short time. I find that teaching and learning are highly intertwined. I learn as much from students as they do from me (just different things).
I hope you have learned something from me. I certainly learned a lot from you via your website. Your furniture is fantastic. By the way, you might want to start a second type of class in your school, in which you focus on design rather than on execution. There are many people who do good woodwork, but few have your flair for design. Here is a motto for you: "To err is human. To anticipate is design." The process of design is a wonderful adventure which has its dangers. In designing a piece of furniture or in designing a website, it is possible to become so enamored with the design, that one loses track of what one was originally trying to do. In good design, form must play second fiddle to function. Best of luck in your woodworking career.
Enjoy,
96
drop the intro. Go right to the main page. Lose the expandomatic.
Lose the "right-right-up-right" way of getting to a page. It might be your webcoders showing off for each other, but it's useless for the person visiting your site.
I like the way the pictures auto-scroll in the news and events page.
Great furniture in the portfolio. I suggest that you have the pieces in the backround on your main page.
Good content in all of the pages.
The information presented is great, I don't think you need all the tomfoolery in getting to the information.
I like it. I think the web design matches what you make beautifully. The web designer is talented. In 2006, web sites don't have to be and shouldn't be designed for the lowest common denominator.
Potential customers have arrived at a destination, they don't need to be in too big a hurry to take it all in. Why would they? They are considering commissioning a custom piece furniture. And there's a lot to take in. The furniture itself is very, very nice. The kind of work that commands large commissions. I like that. I'm sure you do as well.
Leave it alone. Don't change a thing. Please.
Take your photographer and web designer to dinner. They deserve it.
Edited 6/30/2006 3:32 pm ET by BossCrunk
WRONG! Absolutely wrong. Web sites, if they are to be effective have to be designed to reach the person who does not have the highest technical knowledge or the fastest computer. Anything to the contrary is an absolute negative to the intent of having a web site in the first place. The two previous comments to yours are exactly on the money.Johnhttp://www.centralvafurnitureshop.com
Correction: The FOUR previous posts.John
I disagree.
I have a theory - people with slow, junky computers are lousy customers for high-end custom furniture, especially in the style he builds.
That ain't your momma's custom furniture website.
Edited 7/1/2006 8:18 am ET by BossCrunk
I agree with this last remark. You've got to know how to target the *right* customers. It is the same for photography, prices etc...and the design of the site is not to be ignored. You have to think practicality, straghtforward use, but good, modern design also reflects on the products you are selling. If your design looks shabby and amateurish, it will reflect badly on your products even if they are excellent.
Your work looks great! Site is a bit slow at first but I don't think you will lose anyone as a result. Put in labels instead of the arrows.
john
I love the site. I am currently a student at The Australian School of Fine Furniture in Tasmania. Your work had given me alot of inspiration. Thanks
Kaleo Kala
I really like your furniture and I'm going to bookmark your site.I like the site's dark design but I usuallly don't like a flash navigation. The use of flash for a gallery and a simple one level flash navigation works (= I click on an icon and it displays a picture) as it makes it more dynamic but the general site navigation should remain simple HTML. People like to use their back button and don't like to wonder too much about how to navigate. I like the photos. They have an appropriate size (and I'm looking at them at a 1680x1050 resolution) and I like the lighting in several instances and the contrast (really like the first photo) as it gives more mood than the usual flat product photos, although I'd say the lighting could be better and less harsh in some cases. Back-lighting usually doesn't work for this stuff.I am a professional web developer (not a designer) and a photographer, trying to become a woodworker :)
Hi Roy, well it all appeared quick enough, but this is broad band here, and even I managed to get around -so it must be workable: maybe the navigation arrows need to be more distinctive.
I would be keen to maintain contact with you, since I am in the general area, comparatively speaking.
Make the best of the Png Rosewood-it is being squandered -example being an indigenous gentleman based here who imports large quantities and turns it into strip flooring, as well as cutting huge baulks of it into turning squares for those insatiable hording gannets The Woodturners(;).
To those who have dial up, get with the program! Driving an Edsel at the Daytona just will not cut it any more. I thought the intro was great because all of us had draw our ideas and the intro was clever. The black background was difficult as was the disappearing rollover arrows.
Some folks don't have a choice. I can only get dial-up where I live. If I could get a high speed connection, then I would.J.P.
Splinterhead,
Me and a few of the apprentices took a look at the site the other day. I like the overall site but I'm a fan of flash with a highspeed internet connection. I have to agree that the arrows are a little confusing. If it wasn't for the expandomatic I would have to say the arrow navigation is a shot in the dark and frustrating at best. It doesn't make any sense to have people guessing their way around your site. I don't mind taking a few minutes to figure out how the site works but I know the majority of people don't want to wait or think to much. My number one concern when designing my sites was the ease of navigation and have received many comments on how easily people have been able to move around.
The earlier statement to the effect of your type of customers wants a high end site is incorrect in my experience. I have found a lot of my customers that are very wealthy don't like to use computers other than to do a little e-mailing. It's not like everyone buying high end furniture is computer savy. My work around this is to have two sites. One flash for the savy and a html site for the slower connections. You have a choice when you enter the main page.
I like your photography I think it's artistic and high quality. When I first looked at the site I was left wanting a few close ups or little detail shots but after hitting the "I wonder where this arrow takes me" I found the close ups below. I found them by accident but they were there and I enjoyed seeing them. Overall a very nice site. I would personally adjust the navigation arrows and call it done.
I've added a link to my site to offer it up for scrutiny as well. My sites are based mainly on white and green the opposite of yours so they offer a completely different feel yet they are displaying the same thing. By adding my site I hope to offer an alternative point of view and not to steer this thread off course which would be the critique of your new site. Nice work keep it up.
http://www.woodstockdesigns.ca
Edited 7/2/2006 6:53 pm ET by Hempstalk
Nice site Hemp. Just 3 comments - 1) I'd suggest replacing the images in the side navigation menus with text/CSS (less images = faster load time). 2) Add a small link to be able to switch between flash/html. 3) If I go to your "HTML" version, then I don't expect to have to still need flash in order to read your content, such as on "About Woodstock".
"100 Years" -- scribbled on the wall by a woodworker to remind him to do his best and as a warranty on his work -- "If anything I make fails in the first hundred years, bring it back, and I'll take care of it. After that, there will be a small charge. (Original purchaser only)"
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